Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 1 year ago

Sunday Bonus Episode: Susan Zurenda & Alison Hammer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Join the Fab Five for this Soecial Sunday Bonus episode in which they continue their conversation about debut novels by welcoming two more first-time authors. Meet Susan Zurenda whose BELLS FOR ELI will hit shelves on March 5, 2021; and Alison Hammer whose first novel YOU AND ME AND US came out April 2020. Both women had full careers in other fields before getting a publishing deal and they discuss their journey to getting published. http://friendsandfiction.com

Welcome to Friends and fiction. Five best selling authors and the stories novelist Mary Kay Andrews, Christine Harmel, Christie Woodson, Harvey, Patty Callahan Henry and Mary Alice Munro are five longtime friends with more than 80 published books to their credit. In 2020 they created friends and fiction to provide author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing and to highlight independent bookstores. Thes friends discuss the books they've written, books they're reading now and the Art of Storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hi, everyone. How are you all doing tonight? Thank you so much for joining us on a Sunday for a special behind the book episode of Friends and Fiction. So we're doing these just about once a month, and they give us the chance to delve a little deeper and ask more in depth questions about what goes on behind the scenes in our favorite writers lives. Tonight we're going to continue the discussion we started earlier this week about debut novels with two very special guests, But first we'd like to introduce ourselves, so I'm Christine Harmel. I'm Christi Woodson Harvey I'm Paddy Callaghan, Henry. I'm Mary Alice Munro. And I'm Mary Kay Andrews. And this is friends and fiction. Before we start, we would love to thank our presenting sponsor, Mama Geraldine's Mary Alice. Could you tell us a little bit about them? Sure, Mama Geraldine's traditional Southern snacking makes absolutely wonderful cheese straws and cookies. Mm. And they're offering 20% off your order at Mama Geraldine's dot com with the code Fab five thes air. My favorites, the pimento cheese. And as they say, snack on y'all. Yeah. Um, I say I haven't eaten dinner yet. I'm hungry. Me too. Thanks. And Mary Kay, can you tell us a little bit about our bookstore of the week? Yeah. Gramercy Bookstore. Um, we love you know, we love supporting indie stores. This week, we're working with Gramercy Books Index, The Ohio to bring you a 10% discount on are debut novels and those of tonight's guests and the debut not authors we had on the show Wednesday. No coupon code is required. In fact, the stores owned and run. Another author, Linda cast KSS whose latest novel is a rich er I t c h i E Boy you know her Christian, don't you? I do. She is so wonderful. And she's a great supporter of other authors. Thio. So we're particularly thrilled tonight to be featuring her store. We love bookstores that are owned by authors. I...

...think that's super cool. Hello, Linda. And of course, you find that link on our friends in Fiction group page, and you can preorder all of our 2021 novels there, including mine Surviving Savannah. That comes out in just six weeks, which seems impossible. But who's counting? They are a great store to support their located in an absolutely charming suburb of Columbus, and there are wonderfully central part of their community. Yeah, so thank you so much, Patty. So now to tell you a little bit about tonight's guests, Kristie, do you want to start off by telling us a little bit about Susan Surrender? Yes, I do. So I have known Susan for a while, and it was so wonderful last year to watch her journey to publication with her debut novel in 2020. You know, one of the things will be focusing on tonight is having a second career as a novelist, and there is no better example than Susan. She spent 33 years teaching literature, composition and creative writing to community college and high school students in the wonderful Spartanburg, South Carolina, and she has published numerous award winning short stories over the years. But this grandmother for didn't publish a book until last year. Bells for Eli. Her debut takes place in a small Southern town in the 19 sixties and 19 seventies and focuses on the relationship between first cousins Eli and Delia, who were drawn together after a terrible accident. It's a compelling coming of age story of culture, family secrets, friendship and forbidden love. Oh, I'm excited to talk with her in a few minutes. So we're also excited to welcome another 2020 debut, Alison Hammer, who I have known for years. Um, in fact, I honestly cannot remember not knowing her like S O. E. And I can't actually recall. Maybe she'll weigh in when she joins us, But I cannot recall if we met at a Sister Hazel concert. Hey, I'm seriously a blur. Or at the University of Florida, where we both attended journalist in school at the same time, probably hey, watching a don't don't hate because we're great. What can I say? So let's just get on a Either way. I've been so thrilled to see Alison will also tell you about the superiority of the Gators go through this whole publishing journey. So, like season, she had a whole successful career. First she worked, and she still works as a VP creative director at FCB Chicago, the 2020 Adweek Global Agency of the Year. She's also the founder of The Every Damn Day Writers, a support group for women writers. So You and Me and Us is an absolutely heartbreaking and beautiful novel about a woman named Alexis. Her husband, Tommy, and their...

...teenage daughter, Sisi, who come to Destin, Florida, for one last summer. As Tommy, who's been diagnosed with terminal cancer, is dying. It's a masterful, truly masterful tale of family loss, and the way the deepest pain can help teach us the deepest love. So without further ado, welcome Susan and Allison way s, we owe Alison gators, right? I mean, I'm just gonna say go gators e Oh, we're so thrilled to have you to Here we have. We all have a question for U. S. so we will just dive right in with asking all the things we want to know. So, Patty, do you want to start us off? I will. But before we get started, I need to say something really important. War Eagle, Go Tigers always like Hey, she's going girl really broke. Go Tigers! Well, my daughter went to Clemson, but I'm afraid I'm a Carolina fan. Your game time. It doesn't do any good. They don't ever win anything. Not the rial. Carolina, what a game, Carolina. Okay, I don't mean to start this. I'm sorry. Okay, First of all, congratulations on your successful career pivots. I did the same thing. After a long career in pediatric nursing, I stepped into this new and wonderful life. And a debut novel is a fantastic accomplishment. But I couldn't help but notice the timing of yours. Susan, your first novel came out two weeks before the country shut down last march. And Alison, yours came out in April at a time when, like the rest of us, no one was touring. Bookstores were closed. It's tough in the very best of times to be a debut novel. But what about in the worst of times. What was it like for both of you to launch your first novel during a pandemic? Susan, do you wanna start us off? I will. I was so excited. I had so many events set up in so many states. And I was on tour live for a week and a half. And every day, you know, the crowds would get a little smaller and you could see people getting more and more frightened and fewer people coming until March 9th was the last I was in Charlotte, North Carolina a W N b a spring author thing. And they expected about 7500 people. And there were 15 because there were three of us. Author. So it was just It was just the pandemic taking over. So at my mature age, I've I've learned a great deal about virtual events and the joy of being on here with you all. Thank you so much for having me, and it's it's it's just a...

...different adventure than I imagined it being. And I do look forward to getting back out live, I hope when we can all get vaccinated in the paperback comes out the spring How about you else? And what was it like for you to launch your very first novel in the middle of this craziness? It was not at all what I expected. But I am a big fan of looking for silver linings, and I tried really hard. I had five events in different cities plan, and my biggest kind of funny pandemic story is that I had 500 packs of custom Kleenex because my book is a tear jerker. So I had Kleenex printed with a book cover on it E. Yeah, but I have 500 now. And so there was a toilet gross shortage. So I was like If anybody runs E, it was crazy. But, you know, it ended up being I don't really have anything to compare it to because it was my first. But I decided because it was two weeks into the pandemic, I decided not to try and recreate what was going to happen in person. I decided to like take advantage of being virtual Andi. Like Kristen said, we have a big connection with music. And so one of my favorite singer songwriters, Steven Kellogg, who lives in Connecticut, agreed to interview me and play some songs and, um, it didn't feel like a plan B. It ended up being really special. For what? It waas. Absolutely. Mary Kay, Do you want to ask a question? Yeah. You know, I come from a background in journalism, which has served me well as a novelist. In fact, I've been drawn to writing about journalist a couple of times, including my most last year's book, uh, hello Summer. But I think our jobs are our past lives really never leave us on. I'm curious about how the two of you, how your previous careers have helped make you better writers and whether those careers made any sort of appearance in your debut novels. Do you think you're a better writer because you started somewhere else and worked hard to establish yourself in another world? Alison. You want to start with that? Sure, And my second career is not a past career. I tell people I have two full time jobs, So you still working a day job? Girl. I am, I am. So I work during the day and advertising and that nights and weekends with writing. But I do think that working and writing for advertising helped me with my with my fiction career because I think my writing is very accessible. When you're writing for ads, you have to be You almost have to, like, write down Thio Thio, just the type of people that are gonna be not That sounds terrible, but you can't you have to write kind of conversationally and depending on the brand. And so I think that my style of writing growing up in advertising really helped make my fiction writing riel and accessible. Um, and for a while, every book that I was writing had a character who worked in...

...advertising because you write what you know. But I started to branch out because there's only so maney advertising stories. We could tell. Uh, how about you, Susan? Oh, most definitely teaching English for all the years that I taught. I call it my own personal MF A. Because I taught literature for over 30 years and I loved it. I did not like grading essays, but I loved the students and I love teaching literature, and I believed it then, and I believe it now that literature is the most important subject in school because it's everything rolled into one its history. Philosophy, psychology, sociology, maybe not math, but you've learned what it means to be human, and you learn what it means to connect to each other people. And I think all of that studying and all of that analyzing and all of that teaching Help me thio develop a story of the human heart, if you will. So I am teaching Is yeah, great help to be Wow, that is so beautifully put a human heart. I love that e also have to jump in and say, Alison, that my for my first Beach House novel had a character who is in the advertising agency from Chicago. E thinking. My first job was in finance, and I've never written the character in finance like, That's sort of strange, right? You will. You will have never written about a nurse. Never loathe. Oh, I read about the first nurse e. Probably not like a nurse. Exactly a contemporary story. I have not made one of my characters have my past job, so that's interesting, you know, in them in how to sleep with the movie star. My debut novel, I made the mistake of making the main character a small blond magazine journalist, which was truly a mistake if I didn't want people to think that it was an autobiographical tale. So word to the wise. If you write a book called How to Sleep With a Movie Star and you don't want people thinking you slept with movie stars don't make the character look and have the exact same job, just just a little bit. I almost made that mistake. I changed my characters last names that you didn't have my initials because I didn't want people. Don't think that it was, of course, yeah, yeah, that makes good sense. Mary Alice, do you wanna ask your question? I dont know. I want to say that the week before we were talking about are debut novels, and I think we've all found that the things we learned in our earlier lives does help shape novels. So I'm sure all these up stories like being in finance will come in future novels for Christie, for sure. And...

...nurses, um, Susan. Also, I've known you for a long time, and there's a job that you haven't mentioned and that you've done a lot for authors, but magic time Very PR Three of us have really a We benefited from your work there, so thank you very much. It has been my pleasure and continues to be Thanks. It's great. So called part time chop its so called right. I saw all those emails. You said That has a lot of thank you and that that's actually gave you Ah, a bird's eye view of what goes on in the literary world as well. And prepared U s So I'm going and speaking oven earlier life. This is a question that we ask most of our guests. And I think with both of you, this will be really interesting. What were your family's values around reading and writing growing up. So, Susan, why don't you start my mother, Waas Anel Um entry schoolteacher And she had still on this. It's on the shelf around here somewhere, but it's her Children's literature book that she had in college. And my father, when I was a little girl, would take that book, and he would. He loved to read poetry, and he liked poetry that had, you know, he liked little orphan James Whitcomb. Riley. Hey, was Of course, he liked to read Dr Seuss stories. He loved anything with rhyming words and rhythm. And so every night when I and my father was an engineer, But every night before I went to bed and then after my brother came along, he would read us poor tree out of that book. And it seems strange to think I had an engineer father, but he he read all the time. And, of course, my mother was, of course, a reader because she was a teacher and and so I'm certain that all of that early on had a tremendous effect on my loving to read, First of all, and of course, now writing. Yeah. How about you, Alison? My my mom, growing up was a third grade teacher, and so she still has a love of books. My nephew, she started like a grandma book club where she sends my nephews different books once a month because she has so many from her years teaching. So I think she probably helped him. Still, my love of reading, Um, my grandfather was very big storyteller, like just orally telling stories and making up rhymes and things like that. But When I think of my childhood and reading I was I was just obsessed. I would read like one Baby Sitters Club or Sweet Valley High Book. Like a day I would literally like, you know, we go to the library and I couldn't I couldn't get enough. So I think probably my mom started it. And then, um, I just picked up and and didn't didn't stop. Wow, and may I interject something quick since we're talking about reading and when we were Children, I have grandchildren and because I can't be with them now, I...

...have taken to reading to them through FaceTime, and it's wonderful. I go get a big stack of books from the library and my little grandson, Henry. It's really bonding us, since we can't be together much. So I advocate that if you've got people in your family, you can't see little ones read them books through this time. I do that. Yeah, that's great. Wow, that's amazing, because I started out doing that and I let it go. So thank you for the reminder. It is really bonding. It is. We've really enjoyed it. It's so nice to think that you might be shaping the next generation of writers. I mean, one of them might be on the show like this 20 or 30 years from now saying I remember my grandmother or my aunt e Love that Christie. Did you wanna ask a question? I dio So, Susan, are you working on anything? Now? I am. I am in the midst of a second novel. I hope that it's going toe work, and we've been talking about writing what we know. There actually is an English teacher in this second novel. It's not said in the past period, but more in modern day, although I said it before technology took over in the classroom. But I'm you know, this English teacher is a lot funkier. I want nicer. Ah, lot hipper. I think that I that I ever waas, but certainly I know things about teaching English in the high school. I'm using that, and it has a the teacher character and a very privileged white senior boy in high school who finds himself in in school suspension and meet unpublished bi racial girl there. And the sparks will fly, even though it doesn't seem likely. E love that can you also tell us, How do you think writing your first novel after such a long career will, um, impact your life moving forward? Well, it's it's impacting it a whole lot. I can tell you that writing the book is is one journey and getting the book out into the world in front of readers, as all of you know, is another journey. But it Zbynek, um a huge focus of my wife and a dream of mine That's that's come true. So I love teaching. I wouldn't change one single day of it, but I could not right a full length work and teach and raised during the same time. I'm just not the super woman that many people are. You are definitely a superwoman. I e look at house and having a full time job in writing I could never done, But I don't have kids. I mean, I think that it z variable. Yeah, so, Alice and I'll just transition into asking you that. Then how do you manage to do it all? Can you tell us a little bit about the right and group you're part of? And how that keeps you accountable? Yeah. So I...

...am a big believer in writing every day. Um, you know, I've listened to authors like you guys, and so many people say that that that that's the key toe writing every day. And so, whether it's for 10 minutes or, you know, back when we could go to coffee shops, I would love toe spend, like eight hours just camped out of the Starbucks and writing. But I you know, I try to write every day, and I started a Facebook group about it the every damn day. Writers, Um, and it's just it gets me, you know, it's like going to the gym. If you if I stopped writing for a week, I find it's really hard to get back into the story. And so just that little bit of writing every day, um, the words add up. Andi, that's, you know, I end up doing a couple hours, usually after work in the evenings and then on the weekends. Um, I do a lot, so I don't have much of a social life, but you know what? The pandemic. I'm not missing out on much. Nobody that's a social like no. What is that even yeah, also Alison. I beg to differ. You were like, I mean, not now, because the pandemic. But you were, like, the biggest concert. Go where I know and you know everybody and yeah, yeah, you're amazing. I wish I could have seen you to running around to Chris. You know, Sister a rock on the rock booth. Yes. Maybe Kristen confined a picture for us. Yeah, they're probably all blurry because that's very blurry. Thio eso Alison, I know you have a new book coming out this April called Little Pieces of Me. So can you tell us the Oh, yeah. So here it iss um e 00 I love the cover. You. Yeah. Yeah. I was hoping that you know, the world be back to normal for this one, but it doesn't look like that's the case. Um, but yeah, it's coming out April 13th, and it was inspired by the story of a friend of mine who found out through, um, ancestry dot com. She got an email that the dad she grew up with was not her biological father. She got a parent child match with a man she didn't know who threw a little research. He found out that her parents, him had all gone toe the same college at the same time. So when she told me that story, I was just like, Oh my gosh, I need toe write a book about that So it's not her story. It was just inspired by it. But it's coming on April. And if you're watching this live, there's a good reads giveaway for it that ends tonight on Sunday. Um, so yeah, I e yeah. Oh, and for anyone who didn't read Allison's debut novel, I mean, you're just such a beautiful writer, and I just know this one is going to be equally beautiful, probably more so because you're sure you've learned and grown as a writer since then. So let me let me hit you all with a question. Starting with Alison and Susan. Um, yeah, let's talk about what is one thing you think you have learned about yourself as a result of your career so far as a writer. Alison, do you want to start? Oh, um, that's That's a good one. You know, I think because this is the beginning of the year and everyone's talking about...

...goals, and so I think the thing that I've learned about myself is that I like to succeed Andi. I'm more motivated by success than I am failure eso where a lot of people, right, like, plan for stretch goals. They just overwhelming and stress me out. And I find I can't do anything. And so I do better with small, manageable goals like, you know, the amount of words a day or the amount of time a day. And, you know, sometimes I even write things on my to do list that I've already done just so I can have the satisfaction of crossing eso. I just I realized that I have toe I have to set myself up for success, and I'd rather over achieved and underachieve. That's a good one. How about you, Susan? Anything you've learned about yourself through your writing career? Yes, I have. I think I was. I wrote short fiction for a long time, and it, you know, my big excuses. I didn't have time to write a long work, but I think I was always fearful, um, of it, you know, we're all fearful of failure and it it is. You mentioned my work with magic time and I think it is being thrown into the world of authors with Mary Alice with Christie with Patty but to to see you know that it can happen. I don't and and I've had you all have been so encouraging. And I've also I had a tenacious nature and I had learned that it has served me well, um, in writing and in the marketing of a book. So I've been really thankful for what I lack in intelligence I make up for in tenacity that has served me well and and I I never thought I thought, I'm going to write this book that I want to write And then I thought I won't think beyond that. But now But you know, soon enough, I had this idea of a second book that I wanted to write, so that surprises me. And on we go on, we go. I have to say, Susan, that your book bells for Eli so beautiful. If anyone hasn't read it, it's really beautiful. And tell me, isn't the paperback you talked about? The one you're writing? But isn't the paperback coming out? Yes, The paperback is coming out march 1st and I'm thrilled about that, and I'm published by University Press, and it's sort of unusual for them to do. Ah, paperback run after a hardback run. But they have offered to do it, and I'm very excited about it and hope to get back out on the road. I hope you can. I hope so. Mary Kay. Let's just kind of quickly go around the circle to the five of us. I'd love to hear what you've learned about yourself through your writing career. Mary Kay. I have learned that, um, you know, I'm always full of self doubt and fear and self loathing. But the one thing I have discovered about myself, that is that...

...if it terrifies may, I should try it. E feel like I'm going to step off the top of a tall building. I should try that. E metaphorically e. I like that a lot. How about you, Christie? Um, I like that. One of the quotes that hangs on my wall is leaping. The net will appear. So I e I think especially this year. But, I mean, we all know in publishing there are a million variables that we cannot control. And, um There are a million things coming at us at all times, and a lot of times they're not what we expected. And I'm surprised. I think at e think I'm a pretty good problem solver and pivot er, which I didn't really know about myself. But especially with this last launch, it was just sort of like, Okay, pivot. Okay. Pivot again. Okay, pivot again. Okay. How do we solve this? What do we do about this? Oh, my gosh. Like what else gonna happen, you know, But so I think that z good, It's kind of made me more confident about that in the other areas of my life, too. That's awesome. I just love the idea of writing and being on this writing journey, making us better, more well rounded humans, you know? How about you, Patty, you know, sitting here thinking of all of these things. But I think one of the things that strikes me the most is that I always considered myself and not very disciplined person. You know, I've always been kind of go with the flow, acting on my intuition, moving from thing the thing, excited about life, wanting to do the next amazing fun thing. And my sister is a gymnast, and that's what I consider discipline. And I would have never used those words for myself until I looked up six years later and had written a book a year and was like, You know what? I'm pretty disciplined and I don't think it's actually the best adjective for me, But I think when you care this much about something, so I think that's what I've learned that when you care enough about something, you make the time. You make the dedication and you are a committed person. Absolutely. That's great. And how about you, Mary Alice? Yeah, I have to echo what Patty was saying to its Ah, lot of the complaints that I get from my Children. His mom. You're always working, you know. Stop Mary Alice, you gotta You just finished a book. How come you're starting another book and it's not. It's hard to explain. It's hard to balance number one, as we all know our personal lives, and that's what I'm struggling with right now. I think now that I'm at this point where I think, yeah, you do have toe balance...

...your time with joy in your Children. Ah, little bit more. But the truth of the matter is, what I've learned is that I love what I do and I It's not in my mind work. We complain about it Deadline, hell and things like that. But we could all stop if we watch and I just keep going and the ideas keep popping. I never understand how someone says, I don't have an idea. Oh my gosh, I have so many e have to decide which one to choose So the discipline, part it For me, it's more compulsion. I just can't stop. And what the discipline for me is now is to take a step back and say, Be disciplined about those exercises. Take a walk on the beach again. You know, your physical health is important to your Children. Are important, too. So I think over the long career, it's just learning balance. I haven't it, but I'm working towards it. That's good. I love that, and it's something I struggle with, too. I mean, it's you know, and I think particularly during the pandemic balance has become that much more difficult for all of us. Um, for me, I think One of the things I've learned through my writing is that if the questions you dare to ask are varied and deep, you'll be surprised at where they take you. Um, and that's something I didn't realize early in my career when I was writing just kind of these light stories about Hey, we're in our twenties and we're having fun and whatever, you know which. There was a time for that and I think I was exploring some issues than to. But I really feel like I grow a little bit as a result of each book I write and that the books are better and I become better as a person. Um, if I dare to go to those deep places or ask the hard questions and that makes sense. So it's just talking a little bit about Yeah, I was listening to this talk yesterday. It's amazing you're bringing this up, and it was by David White, who is, y'all know, a poet I love, but he had this whole thing about who we are becoming in our work is who we are becoming e. Have it on my bullet board right now who we are becoming in our world way. Patty, I love that. That's very I agree. Wow. Wrote it down, Put it on the bulletin board. Um, yeah, I think that that's a really good point that while we're while Susan is doing her her debut and learning who she is is a writer and Alice and you're diving in, we're also becoming who we are through our writing. And I love that idea, right? And we don't ever stop that zinc. Alright, So, Patty, that is a great segue to my last question for our lovely guests. Who are the two of you becoming? Who do you hope you...

...remembered for being at the end of your literary career? E no, I know. And you know what? Our guests e o before we came on, we promised, you know, tough questions. E o Do you wanna go first or do you want me dio Either way, e Okay. I have this quote that runs through my head sometimes in a letter, um, to his friend Ernest Hemingway. F. Scott Fitzgerald, You know, once said that the value off of writing is how the characters linger in the reader's minds. When it's over. Onder Perhaps that is what I hope, that I can create a work, create characters who resonate with the people who read about them when it's over, so that we have things to think about. We we have things to think about about who we are. And in the case of Bells for Eli, you know one thing I hope readers think about is how it's faith, how it can take away with one hand and give back with the other in the same circumstance. So I think that's when when, when, when we write and way have way right, because we want our readers to understand something about human nature. And maybe that's what I would like my work, at least to be remembered. E Thank you. How about you, Alison? I'm like I have to follow that e. I mean, that was beautiful. I think that when I try to think about, you know, I love the idea that as we change our work changes and with publishing, it's I feel like there's a lag time. So, like I wrote, you know, there's like a two year lag time for who I'm what I'm writing now and then what's coming out. But I think that, you know, I try to write, um, try toe have variety but I think a lot of my stories revolve around family, friendship, loss and love. And I I want to make people feel things I don't wanna like naturally make people cry. But I think that when people can resonate with your characters or think about it and being, you know, at the beginning of my career and like looking at all of you guys and the great successes that you've had, you know, I have definitely like aspirations. But I try to focus on the individual reader, and I try to focus on the review that I get and, you know, because we don't have control over. Of course, the lists would be great. And this is that time where you know, best of and most anticipated list are coming out. So I try not to focus on that. I try to focus on making that one on one connection with the people who read. And you know, another great thing about the pandemic is that there have been things like this and opportunities to...

...join book clubs and to get you know Thio connect with readers and books to Graham and you know So I guess I want to make a lasting impression on individual readers and make them feel something. Well, that's a beautiful thank Alison. I will say that you and Susan are on our most anticipated list. We can make next books on Ladies. We are so grateful that you joined us tonight and grateful to that. You've joined the community of authors overall because you're both doing such beautiful work. So congratulations on your debuts and we're all like I said, so excited to see what's next. Eso as a reminder to all of you out there you can find Susan surrenders and Alison Hammers novels, along with the debuts and upcoming 2021 novels of the five friends and fiction authors at Gramercy Books in Bexley, Ohio, for 10% off. And once again we are so grateful to our sponsor, Mama Geraldine's Who's Cheese Straws and Cookies we adore. So thank you so much for joining us tonight for the special behind the books bonus episode of Friends and Fiction. We will see you Wednesday at 7 p.m. Eastern Time with New York times Bestselling novelist Marissa Delos Santos. Right here on the friends and Fiction Facebook group Page. Thank you so much. CNN you think, Alison? Thank you. Bye. Thank you for tuning in. Join us every week on Facebook or YouTube where our live show airs every Wednesday night at 7 p.m. Eastern time. And please subscribe to our podcast and follow us on Instagram. We're so glad you're here. Good night.

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