Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 1 year ago

Friends & Fiction Celebrates Debut Authors with Lou Diamond Phillips, Gervais Hagerty, Addison Armstrong, and Paige Crutcher

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

This episode is all about debut authors! F&F welcomes to the show four first-time novelists—all with new or recent books out—to learn all about their journey to publication. Meet acclaimed actor Lou Diamond Phillips (Young Guns, La Bamba, Prodigal Son) as we hear all about his debut YA science fiction fantasy novel The Tinderbox (released 8/3/21 by Blackstone), inspired by Hans Christian Andersen's famous fairy tale of the same name. We also welcome Gervais Hagerty (In Polite Company, out 8/17/21 from William Morrow), Addison Armstrong (The Light of Luna Park, released 8/10/21 by Penguin), and Paige Crutcher (The Orphan Witch, coming 9/28/21 from St. Martin's Press).
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001617/ https://gervaishagerty.com/ https://addisonarmstrong.com/ https://paigecrutcher.com/ 

Welcome to Friends and Fiction. Five best selling authors and the stories novelist mary Kay Andrews, Christine Harmel, Christie Woodson harvey patty Callahan, Henry and mary Alice Munro are five longtime friends with more than 80 published books to their credit In 2020 they created friends and fiction to provide author interviews and fascinating insider. Talk about publishing and writing and to highlight independent bookstores. These friends discuss the books, they've written the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Yeah. Hello, hello everybody. It's a Wednesday night and that means it's time for Friends and fiction. Welcome to our show. We have so much to look forward to tonight. I'm Christine Harmel, I'm Christie Woodson harvey, I am patty Callahan and I'm mary Kay Andrews and this is Friends and fiction, five or tonight four new york times, bestselling authors, endless stories all in support of indie bookstores and readers like you. Tonight will be celebrating debut novels with the help of some special guests including first time authors Addison, Armstrong jerry Haggerty and paige Crutcher and you guys, how cool is this movie star, broadway star, television star and director lou diamond phillips whose debut novel just came out in paperback on august 3rd. We'll talk to all four of them about the hopes fears and challenges that come along with the debut, how they broke in and what advice they have for others at the beginning of an exciting and challenging journey and we'll be asking at least one of them about a little upcoming film you might know as young guns three if there's anything he can tell us. And in our continuing support of indie bookstores tonight, our bookstore of the week is one of our favorite stores copper fish books and punta gorda florida. We'll be telling you a little bit more about that in a minute and we also want to remind you that all month long we are taking a bike out of summer with our friends and Carolina. Thanks. Each of us has been posting about our favorite summaries and Labor Day plans on our individual facebook and instagram pages. And with each of these, those posts were offering you guys the chance to win the ultimate labor Day weekend beach bag brimming with swag from friends in fiction and Caroline's including 10 novels, 10, 10 novel cake bites in the flavor of your toys. And you know that every week we partner with Parade magazine online for friends and fiction essay series this week, Patty right about traveling three books. You can find it linked on our facebook page and in our instagram bio. But meanwhile patty, can you tell us a little bit about your fabulous essay. You know, when we were stuck at home during covid and we all started reading more probably I think the reading industry if that's what you want to call it sky rocketed. But there have been other times in my life when I haven't been able to travel or get about or get out in the world, you know, breast cancer treatment for example, or having young babies or in college and working night shift as a nurse. And books were always away to get somewhere else to be somewhere else and not as much as escape, but as a means for greater and bigger life. And so I wrote about that and I want to hear some of your books that have taken you to places you weren't able to go. Well. I mean just recently, taylor Jenkins reads Malibu rising took me to Malibu. Yeah. And I would say that Stephen rally took me to Palm Springs with the Gunkel someone fun and you know, Stephanie dres the women of chateau Lafayette I think was a big travel book for me this year and she took us to France in three different time periods, which was really cool. That I think is kind of the perfect segue because all four of our special guests have written novels that transport us. So let's dive. Right in First up tonight is Lou Diamond Phillips and author, you all know because since the mid 1980s, he has been absolutely everywhere. You may know him from a little film called La Bamba for instance, where he played Ritchie Valens. I'm think I'm gonna have to rewatch that movie. I think we should have. I think we should have a group of friends and fiction of bomba watch party because or you might know...

...him from a little movie called Stand and Deliver for which he was nominated for a Golden Globe and one an independent spirit award. Or if that's not enough you might have heard of a little pair of movies called Young Guns and Young Guns two in which lu co starred with my favorite from the eighties, Emilio estevez and keep Your Sutherland's which every time I hear his name I think of 24 he talks in that whisper the whole time in 24 essentially cementing lose complete and total box office domination of the late eighties and early nineties. But did lou diamond phillips stop their content to be merely a legit heartthrob. He doubled down. I did ask him. Okay great thanks. Well as the head of a singer of a band called the pipe fitters who once plays a massive farm made benefit concert founded by Willie nelson, john Mellencamp and Neil Young or how about a Tony nominated turn as the King in the 1996 Tony Tony award winning revival of Rodgers and Hammerstein's the King and on broadway, honest to God I think I saw him in that. Hello. I'm sure that was lou more recently. You might have seen him Basically any time you turned on your television. He start on everything from 24 to his guest starred on everything from 24 to numbers Brooklyn 99 Blue Blue Bloods Law and Order S. V. U. And over 100 more shows he's had starring roles and shows including Long Longmire. Well I can't talk. I'm proud of this song. What God is God his voice the main characters in the Children's shows. Elena of Avelar and the Lion Guard basically if you have a television Lee Diamond Phillips has been in your house for at least the last 20 years and what am I doing with my life right now? I get it together. But wait there's more. He also won the food network reality series Rachel versus Guy Celebrity Cook off. He was featured in imagine Dragons music video for radioactive. Remember that music video guys He once taught snuffle up against how to write his name on Sesame street. He's appeared on the World series of Poker. And I guess because his schedule isn't full enough. He's also written screenplays and directed episodes of shows including Prodigal Son, Agents of Shield Longmire and the Twilight Zone and the entire isn't that amazing? We could spend the entire night talking to him about his amazing screen career. But of course we're here to discuss another incredible endeavor. His debut novel the Tinderbox soldier of Indira. And you'll have to tell me if I'm saying that right Erica can you bring lou diamond phillips on please. Okay. Oh good you wonderful. You know those interesting and that's why I don't look at my imdb page. You know they just put me to sleep, it's like, oh my God, I'm so tired, I've done so much. Okay, we're we feel like uh when did you sleep? Never mind. When did you write your novel? Exactly, Well, it's such a pleasure to have you on tonight. And I have to say a big thank you to our mutual friend, comedian and journalist, Michelle, whoa ho how do you say her last name? Wo wo wo kowski huh? Something, yeah, she's amazing, Wojo and you could yeah, she's fantastic. So she's the one who put us in touch and I'm so glad she did. So we're so glad to have you here, can you start a little by telling us tonight a little bit about the Tinderbox, which just came out in paperback on August 3rd. Thank you. Well, I mean most people are very, very happy to hear that the inspiration for the entire novel came from my wife, my wife Yvonne, um and when we first started dating uh we literally just passed our 14 year anniversary uh married, we've been together I think uh like 18 years, something like that. Crazy. But when we first started dating shoes and makeup artist, but she was also an amazing graphic artist. Um she knew about my acting, but she's not really any of my writing and you know, I've got screenplays, got screenplays that haven't been produced, I have a novel that I wrote in college that I need to go back to because it never got, you know published. Um and I looked at some drawings that she had done that had been inspired by hans christian Andersen's short story Tinderbox, But she had done them and this is in the 90s, so she was cool and hip and and a nerd before, it was cool and hip. So so she had done these in in the manga style, you know, back when you could have had to actually go down to you know the bookstore and get the mangga, order it from Japan as opposed to clicking it up on your phone. So she had done these amazing drawings that she was thinking about turning into a um graphic novel and they were just so evocative uh they felt like a feudal,...

...you know, sword and sorcery, uh you know princesses and kings and knights and that sort of thing, but with this japanese sort of influence and to me it was like, boom, okay, that Star Wars because Star Wars took so much, you know, from Kurosawa and I said this is a movie. So she's a great, wonderful. And I said about and I wrote a screenplay when I finished the screenplay, we looked at each other and this is too damn expensive and nobody's going to give us this money. I've never directed anything this expensive. So we talked about it and uh talked about with my manager, JB roberts has always been so supportive and he said write the book, just write the book, you know, uh you know, easier said than done my day job, kept getting in the way. Uh and so it took 10 years, took 10 years often on, you know, writing some going away from it, coming back to it. And we were talking about Craig johnson earlier, he was instrumental in me finishing the novel a lot of hearing that I was Longmire, and after, I think in the second season I finally got enough bravery to go craig, you know, I write a little, you know, and I said, would you look at this and I think I gave him a chapter and a half or something like that. I said, am I wasting my time and my out of my mind here, and he read it and he loved it. And uh and he says, you have to finish this, you have to finish this. So I started going back to it in earnest after having dabbled for a little while and like I said, the process to not only finished the novel, but Go to the edits the polishing everything else. And actually the published was in excess of 10 years, wow, can you tell us a little bit about the plot of the novel? What can we expect from picking it up? It's, you know, I mean, if anybody's read the short story, it is the short story, the plot doesn't appear from it all that much, but I've extrapolated it into a galaxy far, far away. Uh And it allowed me to I think give it more that allegorical flavor, you know, that more fairy tale favor less sort of thing when when you know, it's in another world, it allows you to go somewhere else. And so uh what's funny is that is that a lot of my influences are very evident and they're from Lewis carroll uh you know, gaming machine there. Uh you know, uh definitely the hans christian Andersen and writers of that period. And so the language is a little heightened um and our novel has dogs, it has a witch, but it is not a witch W I Tch it's a witch W. H. I C H. because there are four tellers which the where the wind, the wind and it's got a little bit of that, you know. Uh the language in the wardrobe, I mean, it wants to feel like a novel from that period, but with I I think very relevant um uh themes and ideas Race certainly plays a part in my hero is brown. Uh It's a planet that split into two. Uh And all the brown people went to one side and all the white folks went to the other, but the white folks are in the desert now, which is very odd. But uh you know, it's it's about it's about a young man and a hero's journey and a princess who has been uh uh you know, locked away by her father, the king lo these many years because of a prophecy that his kingdom will end, should she ever marry a common soldier? So, you know, it's uh it has very, very much fairytale aspirations, even though it's Science five, and that's so funny when I finished, I think this is why, and I was like, okay, but it's also a sci fi novel. Okay, it was a very tell fantasy. Yeah, I told the story, I mean, whatever category you guys want to put it into, it's up to you. Yeah, wow, blowing me away. You have worked in the archetypes and the stories and the wider mythology of so many different things and even sprung to mind when you were talking, like fantasies by George Macdonald and which also inspired the witch and the wardrobe, which also inspired Tolkien, which it's just you're you're working in this huge realm of mythology and legends, because I mean, once again, like you said, I mean, there's a lot of Romeo and Juliet in there. There's a lot of Shakespeare and Shakespearean references, There are easter eggs throughout the thing, there's even a little reference to a Beatles song, but, you know, uh the the influences come from the literary world and they come from the cinematic world as well. I mean, the reason I I originally decided to write it as a sci fi was that, you know, it was going to be a movie and at the time game of Thrones hadn't happened. So the fans wasn't his hip, but alcohol was a massive hit. Star Wars was still going strong. So I thought to make it a commercial, you know, film, I'll make it a sci fi. I never set out to write a sci fi. Any lawn when when we we would turn it back into a novel was so pissed at me because the administration, but I...

...don't do sci fi, I don't draw spaceships, I don't draw weird creatures, just draw what you're inspired by, you know. Uh and so she uh she really, I think found this beautiful hybrid of of the kind of german woodcut stuff that she really does. Well uh that was prevalent in the Lewis carroll, but also in the original hans christian Andersen and she brought into that and almost barbarella sci fi, steampunk sensibility and the graphic novel sensibility. So the illustrations, I think it was this market that they are, they are, they're great, they're great. So you have had and you continue to have an incredible career on camera and on stage and is one of the most prolific and recognizable actors of the last 3.5 decades. So don't think you did and I don't want to hear some humble No, no, no, it writes me that acting is first and foremost and always about character about taking on a role wearing it like a second skin becoming that character in so many ways. And you're a great example of that because you're not an actor who's typecast, you've played all kinds of different kinds of characters and while watching you in a role, we definitely know who you are, but we forget because you embody those characters. So here's what I'm curious about. Can you talk a bit about what your processes as an actor free creating such realistic and deeply felt characters and how much of that influence the way you wrote the Tinderbox? Uh 100% influences the way that characters came out in Tinderbox. And I'd like to say one thing is I'm proud of is I think that every one of the characters resonates uh from from the smallest character as you know, one appearance to you know, the hero or you know, the princess Princess Allegra, which by the way, the Allegra Cafe in Vancouver was the first place that we uh uh you want and I had a date and that and that's what I'm sweet. Um so I mean when I taught acting on occasion and and you're right, I mean whether it's theater, film, television, I've played good guys, I played bad guys, I played really bad guys, uh you know, uh supporting, leading comedic, uh you know, dramatic and and the same thing always applies and that is you have to subjugate as a human being, your ego to the character. Uh you cannot hold them at arm's length, even when I'm playing somebody like Richard Ramirez in the film I did called the Night stalker with the wonderful bellamy Young who was with me and Prodigal son. Uh you have to adopt that characters worldview, you cannot judge them if you're going to play them uh and and judge them. The audience will see you apologize and you can't do that to think that you have to open your mind and your heart and you don't have to agree with them, but you have to fully invest yourself in that character and and the parts of yourself that you know, that would apply to that character and somebody said, well I could never do that. I could, I could never be a serial. And it's like, well, you know, you ever thought I could kill that guy, you just take that and extrapolate it. You know, you take the word no out of your head and you uh once again, don't, don't apologize for how the character lives their life, you live that life on this and uh do everything you can to to present it fully and completely uh and a lot of that, you know, I lost a lot of weight for uh Richard Ramirez in that film, I lost a lot of weight for the 33 where I played uh Don lucio Chilean Miner who got caught him, he was the foreman of the Chilean miners who was caught in that cave in back in 2010 in chile. And so you do your research. You know you a lot a lot of the you know writers who are friends of mine always do their research about the books. And it's the same in the acting world. You know if you if you need to learn how to you know make an omelet even learn how to make an omelet if you're gonna put on camera so that people believe that you know how to do this. So yeah, I mean playing a cop tons of research in that area, playing a soldier, you know uh playing Richard Ramirez. That was that was a deep type playing richie valence. It was watching all of the video that was that was possible eating every article it was talking at length with his family. Uh you know I'm not in trouble from East L. A. But you know I drove around for two weeks with the brother who was uh you know who grew up in that life, you know and we went to the places where terrible things happened to him, He did terrible things and you know it was my it was my job to absorb that. It's fascinating you know lou I've seen that you're so active on twitter which I think is a gift to your fans because you are so authentic and when you interact with them and with us.

So all of you out there we posted a link to lose twitter account under announcements on facebook. You can find him at at Loop capital D phillips. Reading through some of your past tweets. I'm curious about a few of the things you said, oh no, I know, I don't know about you, but on twitter is where I get a little bit more open open. Yeah. So just the other day, you answered a question about how long it took you to write this book and you said 10 years because you you know, you had a day job. Can you tell us a little bit about how that process worked where you and you, you answered a little bit of this already. So you went back and forth. Right? I did. And after a while I realized I did a play that I wrote called Burning Desire Comedy because they very rarely Caspian comedies. Uh we produced at the Seven Angels theater at uh in Connecticut in Waterbury just a couple of years ago, I wrote that while I was doing the King and I on broadway, I literally known it. I I r r going into work from Long Island. I wrote it. I wrote during the act break uh on the, on the and I finally I discovered that I can write while I'm doing something else and in some way when I'm working, it just gets those creative juices flowing. So I I did the entire, I don't know, eight months of edits or whatever while I was shooting Prodigal son, I kept, you know, a yellow pad with me and by the way, don't screenshot that, that yeah. Uh, yeah, I keep I keep a yellow pad with me at all times and you know, I mean if the senate will come to me or a paragraph or whatever, you know, while I'm on set is right through my chair, I jot it down, keep the computer in the dressing room, you know? And and so I discovered that that I could work while I was working a good chunk of it was written during Longmire. Uh, and even, I think bigger chunk because I had more time was done when I was doing the King and I in Australia. And Gilbert Laban went with me because, you know, I could ride all day and then, you know, go to the theater at six at night. So uh like I said, one hand washes the other and what when we're talking about my acting and my writing or directing any of that, I think there are branches of the same creative tree and and uh one embellishes the other one uh, totally, you know, I think elevates the other because because I'm looking at it, you know, from as a director, I'm looking at it, you know, as an actor working on each one of those characters and then, you know, working on it as a writer who wants to create a world. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, and you might have already sort of touched a little bit on what I'm getting ready to ask you, but we'll ask you to sort of expand on it a little bit um since we're talking about debut novels tonight, and since you are the perfect example of someone who wanted to write a book and stuck with it over the course of a decade, even though life kept getting in the way, what advice can you give to writers out there who are toiling away on an idea or who think they can't fit their dream into an already busy life? You know, it's uh first of all, it took me 10 years. I mean, a lot of people said, Oh, you got me through the book. Oh, yeah, yeah, he just spit it out and somebody said, well done to Phillips, you know, we'll just publish it. No, I I got rejected a lot, wow. This book had a couple of dozen uh rejection letters. And in the movie ambition by the way that I wrote, my character is a writer and he's burning rejection letters by the way those were the real rejection letters for the uh novel I wrote in college that I needed, wow, amazing. But again, it's never quit. If you believe in yourself, make it happen. And a line that I wrote, you know, in in my play, Um because the characters, a writer, but he's a waiter at the time and uh the leading ladies is what are you waiting for? You know, she goes a writer, writes an actor, actor, dancer dances, they're all acts of verbs, so do it. You know, I've got, I've got stuff in drawers that never got published or never got produced from 10 years ago. I just them off every once in a while summer, trendy others I think, you know, uh, go beyond uh, window of time and then they're so relevant and so have life to them. So it's about never giving up. But it's also about doing a work, I think that we have a, and I used to call it an american idol, uh, mentality, but it's a lottery mentality. People want things instantly. They, you know, they think they can do something, you know, just so brazen on Youtube that they'll instantly become famous and rich. But when, when you're dealing with the arts, if you want to be an actor, if you want to be a writer, you want to be a dancer. I mean, it's it's blood sweat and tears. It's you know, you, you apply your, your soul to this is going to be any good at it. And if you want to have a...

...life at it and that's what it is. It's not about instant fame or even rich is it that you love this and you have to do it? And for me finishing the novel, I just wanted to hold it in my hands, you know, the fact that it's been so well received and you know, the Yvonne's drawing and has has gone through the roof as well. I mean that's that's such a plus, but we just wanted to hold them in our hands, we don't, we did this, it's a great feeling, you all know, and you know it multiple times, you know, Craig johnson, I don't know how many Longmire books now. Another dear friend, Chris Bohjalian has, you know, had a that was my, by the way, rave book of this year. Uh so good. You know, I mean these guys do it every year on my way. Speaking of Chris, Bohjalian way to play for us. Hi Chris Bohjalian here, I want to say a little patty to all of you watching. And of course, hi lou Diamond phillips High von, I want to say congratulations on the Tinderbox being a finalist for the dragon or as many of you know, I loved that book, my lovely bride victoria loved that book are amazing Grace experience, love that book. If you're Washington. Haven't read it, read it if you bring it, vote for it for a dramatic word and all of you have a great time, man, I read everything he writes uh mentioned Craig and Craig is the reason I finished the Tinderbox, Chris is the reason I got published. Uh we're working on, on a couple of different things. He and I uh that involved, you know, one of his other novels uh and and we've become good friends, I met him on twitter, well you know, you want who recommends everything that I read, she gave me the flight attendant, she wants you gotta read this, this guy's amazing Brown or something. So I read the flight, you know, oh my God, I got you know, page turner, right? And I said what if he's on twitter? But here he is. I followed him. He followed me. We have a your mutual friend and john Fusco who wrote Younguns one and two. Uh they're both, you know, Connecticut Vermont type guys and uh we we do, we just hit it off and have this friendship and once again, you know, we were talking about you know this that and the other And I gave him, you know, the Tinderbox to read and he loved it and and he pointed me in the right direction. What's funny is that his literary agent who is now my literary agent is the same woman to try to sell my novel 20 years ago and am I right then? And she goes, I think we can sell this one. I oh we love chris so much and we love his books and he came on the show and talked about our of The Witch and he's an astounding person and astounding writers. So everyone out there, we totally encourage you to vote for lou's book in the Dragon Awards, which chris just mentioned. And the Dragon Awards are linked to Dragon Con, which is a huge pop culture event held every Labor Day weekend in Atlanta. Right? And they honor excellence in sci fi and fantasy. They're entirely fan driven. So if you pick up loose the Tinderbox, we would love for you to vote for it. There is a link under announcements as usual on our facebook page. Absolutely, yeah, we're so excited about that. Um so lulu before you go, we wanted to ask you about what you're working on next in a few areas, what are you working on next in terms of books, and where can we see you on screen coming up soon? Oh my goodness! So I let the cat out of the bag, I'm working on the sequel. Uh the reviews were so wonderful, and the one thing that Yvonne and I latched onto was the fact that a lot of people fell in love with this world, the world that have been created and a lot of these characters. Uh so it was like, okay, well let's let's do a sequel. Um We had thought I had thought for a long time that we would go back into the end of the fairy tale world and I would uh you know, I would extrapolate something else. Even came up with this plot. She came up with this story. Uh and it is so out of left field, but so there between the lines in the first book, but I was astounded. Uh, Whereas the 1st 1 was a fairy tale and, and a bit of a hero's journey and an adventure. This one is a little bit of a mystery. So it's got, it's got that and and it's got a little bit of an environmental uh...

...side to it uh, doing that. And I just recently um uh, did a nice cameo playing myself in a movie called Easter Sunday with the comedian jo koy who had been comes with a number of years. He got his first feature film through Amblin Entertainment. It's semi autobiographical and he wrote the role for me to play me. So I feel like I'm not that character down. I can't really say no to that either. It's really not a lot of people that can do as well as you know, you want to play with me. I love it. Okay, we have to ask, you are the rumors, can you tell us anything about Young Guns Three about whether that might be coming? Uh, it might be coming. Uh yeah, more, no, Amelia reached out to me about a year ago and he had written a script. Uh, I have mentioned our friend john Fusco john Emilio wrote the script, I think john has done a polish on it. I don't know where they are as far as getting it together for production, but uh, it's in the works and, and it is, uh, it is a real thing, It is a real rumor, Amelia is committed to it. Uh, and when he calls me, that's it man regulators mount up back in the saddle, regulators. It is awesome. Alright, well, assuming that it does go forward, I can't imagine that it wouldn't, how do you feel about returning to a role from the past and especially a role that remains So iconic and to working with these actors who you really kind of grew up with 30 years ago. Well, first not everybody will be in and I'm going to, you know, that's a little bit of a teaser uh, or a few of us that will return. Um, and I have to say from what I read in the initial draft, uh, he did a brilliant job of bringing it forward and, and aging these characters to where we would be now, you know, older but wiser guns. Uh, you know, slower but crotchety guns, I don't know. Uh, and um, there are truths and there are lessons for, I think there are things in the characters that I don't know were available to us when we were in our 20s. Uh, and I think that's, that's kind of wonderful, you know, I mean, when you think of when you think about an old gun slinger who, you know, probably should have been in the ground a long time ago, that comes with a lot of gravitas, that comes with a lot of experience and a lot of pain and I and uh that's one of the things that I think is really, really compelling. Uh not only about the script in general, but certainly, which I guess, well, I can't wait to see what happens with it and I can't wait to see what happens with everything you're working on. I I feel like they're going to be so many more chances to see you doing so many more amazing things in the years to come. So now he's been on friends and fiction. So like someone to add to your yearly. So lou it was such a pleasure talking with you today about your debut novel and about all these amazing things you have going on. And as a reminder to all of you out there, please vote for lose the Tinderbox in the Dragon Awards and I would encourage all of you to follow lou on twitter where like we said, he's very active and engaged. So, lou, congratulations on this wonderful book and on everything. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. Congratulations lou thank you! Think that was amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah, All right, ladies, how fun was that for two hours. He was amazing! Oh, that was so much fun, but the fun is not over. So this is our featuring debut authors and debut books and we have three more of them coming up. So you won't want to miss it because we'll be hearing about each of their much anticipated new books. They're writing processes and their tips for other aspiring writers and the good news is that all of these folks will be talking about tonight um will be available from copper fish books in punta Gorda on the west coast of florida for 10% off Using the code F F 10. This is one of our absolute favorite bookstores. Um and Kristen was just there for her tour last month and we'll all be there this fall as we launch our september and october books. So come see us and in the meantime support them because they're a wonderful story are they are. And the link to the bookstores under announcements on our facebook page and tonight we are so excited to welcome three new kids on the block, get it new kids on the block, Addison Armstrong, the author of the light of luna park. Haggerty, the author of impolite company and page Crutcher, the author of the orphan which Addison Armstrong...

...graduated just last year from Vanderbilt University with degrees in elementary education and language and literacy studies. She's currently living in Nashville working with students and obtaining her master's degree in reading education. Her debut the light of luna park came out just last Tuesday to cover a. It really is. And Haggerty grew up in charleston south Carolina. She earned her B. A. In psychology from Vanderbilt and her M. B. A. From the citadel Military college of south Carolina. That one the one about that one. She has worked as a news reporter and producer, a college instructor and the director of a public speaking lab. She lives in charleston with her husband and daughters. Her debut in polite company just came out yesterday. Happy but Happy We Page creature has been published in multiple anthologies and online publications and she is a former southern correspondent for what we call P. W. But is publishers weekly. She's an artist, a yogi and astounding ethereal human being and we're not writing. She likes to spend her time trekking through the forest with her Children. She is hunting for portals to new worlds and I actually believe that's what she's doing her work which which I absolutely loved and devoured an advanced topic form and blurbs. Isn't that cover? Amazing. Yeah. is out on September 28, wow. So we cannot wait for all of you to meet the three of them. Erica. Can you bring Addison job and page on. Hi hey, hi, good to see you all. Yes, having a oh my gosh! Thank you so much for being here. So welcome ladies and huge congratulations on your brand new books. So let's start off with a quick elevator pitch from each of you Addison, can you tell us about the light of luna park which came out just last week. So the light of luna park is a dual timeline, historical fiction novel and it centers around the 20th century coney island baby incubators with like a freak show in a hospital. All rolled into 1 96 and 1950 timeline with the nurse and teacher. Oh wow, it sounds so good. That's awesome. And how about you, can you tell us about in polite company which just came out yesterday? Yeah, absolutely. I say it's a peek behind the veil of charleston aristocracy. So you think debutante white glove pearls, but it's not all sweet tea and southern charm. There's a little bit of sex drugs and rock and roll in there, awesome. And page. Can you tell us about the orphan? Which, yes, the organ, which is about a woman who has magical abilities, she doesn't understand and who has never belonged anywhere on an island off the coast of north Carolina. She finds sisterhood and love and a library housing lost magical items. A mysterious and dashing librarian and a very old curse that awakens the power slumbering in her blood. Oh my God, no walkout Hoffman, here comes these all sounds amazing. Um so ladies, we're going to have a bit of fun for the next few minutes. We have a series of questions which we're going to throw it, you rapid fire. So it'll be a little bit of room to expand later. But this is gonna be kind of like our speed dating ground for our audience of book lovers. So first up, can you tell us who would love your book Addison? I say book clubs, mom's nurses and teachers. Yeah, anybody who loves charleston south Carolina. And then I'd also say anybody who loves the protagonist, it's a good girl. That was a rebel heart like that page. Um I think anybody who loves witches and little bit of magic and sisterhood and found family. Mm Hmm. OK, OK. Round two, we often wonder where whether writers outline which we call being a plotter or whether you right by the seat of your pants, which is a panther ladies. How about you? Are you a play, a plotter or a panther or a hybrid of a total pants, sir. How about you? Page hybrid. Okay, that's a platter. I love learning that. It's so funny, simply the difference. Okay, how long it take you to write your first book from the time you first sat down to put word one on the page. Page. My very first book I wrote, I think it took me a couple of years and then the orphan, which it was pretty quick.

About six months, wow. Yeah. Okay, how about you Addison Madison Esther? I was in school semester during my junior year. What can you teach us please? How about you jabbing? That was about four years. I was working full time as a professor. So that was, it took a little bit extra time. Okay, okay, he's more normal. That makes me feel a little bit better about myself. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm a little bit intimidated by page and Addison who are probably gonna put out four more books here. OK, 15 tracks a bit. What's the biggest surprise you've experienced along the journey to becoming a writer? How about you Addison? I'm shocked by the fact that I don't hate editing, revising, diving back in and making it better. Awesome. Okay, how about you deserve a well, as this is the day after my debut launch, I'm just wowed by how much of a business this is as you very well know, and um yeah, that's probably the biggest part. Cool, okay, how about you page? I think the writing community, honestly, it's so yummy and everyone's so kind and it's a solitary creative business that we have to sort of discover how wonderful the writers are within it. It's kind of everything. That's awesome. I feel like we've all made that discovery and all been kind of wowed wowed by it, especially I think over this last year and a half. So good to hear you say that. Yeah. Um okay, I love this one. What is one word that you hope critics will use again and again to describe your work. It's not like the most imaginative, but I just want them to just say fun a great one page magical. A good one Addison for help. Oh, okay, ladies or new kids, should I call you? We love to give, we love to have you give aspiring writers a bit of advice each week on this show way. I took your, I took your Yeah, you're okay. I have a question. It's one thing, a glass of Rombauer and she was like, oh, okay lady, what is the one thing you have learned along the way that you wish you knew at the start of this journey page? Uh, it'll be a long journey, but it'll be so worth it. Yes, Addison, you touched on this a little bit, but it is just so much of a business. I thought all the time consuming stuff would be the actual writing of the novel, but there's so much more Okay, the one thing you wish you'd known it started the journey to just to trust my gut. I think a lot of it is just in here and to trust that. Now, can I ask you now? You can. God all right. So, you know, we want you to give us a bit of writers advice and I think each of you are an awesome position to share some words of wisdom with all the writers out there who are seeing you tonight and hopefully feeling inspired. We're gonna ask each of you for a separate piece of advice and we're gonna start with page I think, wait, I want to ask you for advice. Wait, no, I have, I have a specific question to ask you paige, I'm sorry, you ready? Yes, Okay, what's your advice for overcoming this? This is a very this question is I think they tailored it to me. I have this voice in my head. What's your advice for overcoming the voice in your head at the beginning of your journey that tells you I'm not a writer that maybe I'll fail. How do you, how did you overcome that? The inner critic, that tiny little monster. I think I kind of give it a little bit of credit and say, you know what, maybe I can't do this, maybe I won't, but I'm still going to try, like I'm still going to get forward, you know that's great advice. Yeah. Um Addison, do you have any advice for people who are looking to find an agent? Yeah, I think there's just so many ways to do it, depending on what you're comfortable with. So, I mean, they have the twitter pitched parties, they have the cold emails. I met the woman who became my agent melissa anasco at a...

...conference or Writers Institute giving a critique session. So, you know, depending on your strengths and your weaknesses and what you're comfortable with. There are multiple avenues, great advice, okay, like that and job. What is your advice for weathering criticism or rejection or disappointments because they are absolutely no matter who you are. Part of every writer's journey, I, all I can say is put on horse blinders and just charge forward. Yes. Mm that's great advice. Yeah. Okay. Finally ladies, I want you to Bring out your crystal ball 10 years Into the future, pretend you're magical like page would be powers, pretend it's 10 years in the future and tell us where you hope to be in your career. I guess I have to ask, let's go job. Why don't you ask answer first? I would love to have about six books under my belt And I also like to move in maybe later to some historical fiction based in charleston but that would be really fun. Hey, how about you? Um, just to be being published still to be writing and creating more and just having fun with it. Yeah, cool Addison. You're bringing up the rear. I'd like to still be writing also and teaching historical fiction. So, but I'd also like to do Children's middle grades like that. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that that's a great goal. Wonderful. Alright, well tonight we are going to play a little game with all of you were going to read nine surprising facts about our guest authors and their books. You out there, all of you who are watching on facebook and Youtube have to guess which fact applies to which novelist. So you're gonna put your answers in the comments on facebook and Youtube. So when we say question one you put which author you think it is. Question to so on and so forth. Um and we are going to draw one lucky winner who will win one book of his or her choice from Jared Addison or page shipped to you straight from copper, copper fish books. So your answers don't have to be right, you just have to play and our wonderful meg walker, the driving force behind Friends and fiction will be drawing a random winner from everyone who participates. Okay, you guys ready? We're ready. All right mary. Kay well and how about we do it like this? Well, read the fact we'll give everyone just a few seconds to respond and then we'll let the author own up to who it is. Alright, alright, okay. Question one, this author speaks english spanish and a tiny bit of american sign language. I used to know I took it in school because my language or I don't know. Oh my gosh, I just watched a movie called coda which is on apple and apple. Tv. It is so good. It has lots of sign language in it. It's amazing. But anyhow, sorry, anybody got a guess about who it is. Way it's okay. Wait, this is a way so this author makes in this is question number two. So put it to in the comments when you're answering it. This author takes improv classes because she finds it helps her right? Dialogue. Taking an improv class literally makes me feel panicked. It's funny. I think I'd be really bad at improv, but I really love the idea of it. I like you would get you know who I bet would be great at improv. Probably lou diamond phillips. I think that we're diamond phillips would win. Okay, who is it? Which one of you? Okay. And that it be a Okay, this is fab. This author was a middle school wrestling manager. This is my son wrestled. I do not remember girl wrestling managers. I know that. That's awesome though. Yeah. Alright. Looks like really cool. I love these fun bags. They always make me think like I really need to step up my fun bags. I think maybe I'm just not that interesting. I know all three of them are so interesting. I might. They all sent me a bunch of facts and I was like, how do I choose which ones? They're all really cool. I know. All right. Own up to that. All right. I love that. This author...

...doesn't drive a car. Now. This is question number four. And you know, when we played fun facts a couple of weeks ago, I think everybody was Disturbed to find out. I didn't get my driver's license until I was 21. We couldn't believe it. We didn't know that about her to be here. Probably. I still get lost. All right. Give me a driver's license to drive a car. Yeah. Do you have a driver's license? Yes, I do. You do have a uh Yeah. All right, okay. This author was in 11 plays and musicals in Middle School and High School. It's not me. Well, you're not saying so. I'm sure you thought that musical. I think it was crispin Kristen is no, chris, Christie is not eligible. No, No. I can't act anyways. Yeah. All right. Who was that? Who was who was the uh Okay. And that's interesting because we were just talking with liu about how acting and um falling into character roles helped him a little bit with developing characters in his books. I wonder if the same was true with you Addison. If that if that was kind of part of your journey I definitely heard to me. And I thought also even just like psychology classes that I've taken and things like that, seemingly totally disparate experiences. That totally makes sense. Absolutely. Okay. I love this one. This author runs most of her errands on a cargo bike, which I'm really into and like living in Bedford. I could do that. I really need to be better. I have like a little basket on my bike that sometimes I'll like right around town and do things, but I need to be more like intentional about that. I feel like, you know, I feel like it adds to the mystique of like that crazy author who rides around town on her bike with all her like stopping it. Right. I mean, everyone knows you like, can I follow you around playing do Alright, okay. Is that all right? You inspired major bay? I'll send you the pictures next. Yeah. Right around your planet. Do you also not drive a car or do you just choose your bike most of the time? I choose I'm on the city's bicycle and pedestrian advisory committee. So I'm real committed to transportation and so yeah, That's great. Well, and then you know what you're talking about because you're actually doing it. I'm doing it. I think I have to get a car for the tour. But yeah, like you support that decision. It's going to be hard to ride a bike to Atlanta where you and I are going to get together. Okay, question # seven. Someone in this author's book writes a classified ad in the paper looking for a husband. Oh, I love that. Uh, I used to take classified. I worked at a newspaper in ST pete, my hometown And I took classified ads and you've got some really squirrely people coming in there. I mean, this was this was in the 70s. My job offer was right. Yeah. Not the same, but also great. Alright. Whose whose book does that happen in Addison? Okay, Okay, fantastic. Okay. In this book, the main character. I know this one. The main character caught in a riptide. Well, I hate to say you know all of them since we have the answers. Yeah. I it actually put the answers in the script patty. I know you don't know that she takes a little bit of fun out of it for us. I'm sorry everyone I work for my question and peter and I'm going to sleep in your guest house. What are you gonna do? I don't know. Okay. All right. Who is that? Alright. Survey. Okay. All right. And finally I bet you can narrow down that last answer. Okay, so in this author's book, the main character falls in love with the art of tai chi, is that good? It's not how you do time. I I I don't know the only I remember doing a class one time and the only thing I remember is they were talking about moving your hands across the velvet. That's all I ever Okay. There are a lot of people here that do it like in the park and it's Yeah, they look really cool when they're doing well, I agree. Okay, whose book is that? I know, I know you probably narrow it down page. Fantastic. Alright, well, how fun was that? We will be bringing...

...our partner in crime meg walker on soon to announce the randomly drawn winner. So don't go anywhere all of you out there, but ladies, the three of you deserve a Addison page. Thank you so much for hanging out with us tonight. We are thrilled about your debuts. We hope everyone watching tonight buys them preferably from copper Fish where you can get 10% off with code f f 10 and we all wish you huge success with these books and with you guys are awesome. You guys are greatly essentially a we cannot wait to see what your career is take you. So again folks out there out now are the light of luna park by Addison Armstrong and in polite company by jerry Haggerty and on september 28th the world will meet the orphan, which by page Crutcher but you can absolutely preorder it now and we suggest that you do so Addison Jeff and paige, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining. Thanks guys, y'all are so great, this was so fun. Thanks Alright, so to everyone out there, stick around because we'll be naming the winner from the game we played in just a minute and you won't want to miss our after show. But first a few quick announcements. Don't forget to check out our friends and fiction podcasts. Not only are the shows on there, but also our every friday Writer's Block podcast with Ron Block. This past week we had an episode on diverse voices with Ron Block and he talked to Monica West and he talked about revival season and wanda Morris to talk about all her little secrets. I have heard it and it is such a powerful episode in this coming friday be and Christie and Ron talked to Allison Larkin about her novel and Tracy lang about her debut. We are the brennans. So just search for friends and fiction on your favorite podcast platform or head over to friends and fiction dot com and click on podcasts and there's a play button right there to learn more. Yes. So don't forget to like follow and review all the things. Listen right. Yeah, obviously. And if you're not hanging out with us in the Friends and fiction official book club yet you are missing out this group which is separate from us but it's run by our friends lisa Harrison and Brenda. Gartner is now more than 8000 strong group you're starting, started reading patties the bookshop at waters and and I know she'll be popping in live on september 20th. Take your questions. Speaking of september, did you know that Patty Christie and I all have books coming out between september 28 in october 26. We do, yes. We talked to buy this new, yep, shocking news. Right? You can be among the very first to read these books through the winter wonderland subscription box and you will receive all the books as they released along with lows of exclusive extra swag. The package is available for purchase only through our friends at Nantucket Book part partners. Look for the link under announcements and this sunday and join us at five p.m. For a bonus episode that's going to blow your mind especially if you're a writer like set 11 alarms and do not, Yes, john Truby and Leslie Lear and next Wednesday meet us right here at seven p.m. To welcome back one of our most memorable guests of 2020 Karin slaughter. Um and there could be some questionable language so we cannot control so you might want to cover your ears or um fast forward through the bad. But our 2020 episode included pirate hats in a very serious discussion about pirate healthcare. So you do not want to miss her return to the show and don't forget that we have a merchandise line through independent bookstore. Oxford exchange where you can pick up wine tumbler, stainless steel, travel cops and friends and fiction teeth and you might want to go ahead and get those friends and fiction tease ordered up because I'm going to, we're going to be announcing something soon that you're gonna want to be a part of it and I like it and you know what? They're all the we all have those teas too. So it's the ones that were where we'll be wearing it on the show probably next. But yeah, well that sounds great. All right ladies, what a night. So may walker are managing Director extraordinaire who keeps our train on the tracks meg! Would you like to come on and announce our winner for the little game we played tonight. God like hair looks great as usual. It's awesome. That's great. Okay Meg do I have a dinner for tonight. Yeah, well I did too much homework and I wrote down a the right person for each of the nine...

...questions, but I'm so sorry. We're not explaining that to you, That's me, not following directions. So, but I'm going to say that the winner is the Roebuck. Uh you're in part because I have to dioxins and one of them the same disease. So there you go. Love it. It's great. You have Meg's dog's name, that's how you work your name. You after Meg's dialogue. Your your parents had excellent foresight. So is he Congratulations. Um reach out to one of us if you can and if we don't hear from you will reach out to you and get you all set up with that prize. We'll figure out which book you would prefer. And that my lovely ladies brings the show to a close And we do hope you consider picking up the debut novels of all four of our guests including lou diamond phillips wherever books are sold but preferably from our friends at copper fish books. So stick around after the show for the story. Point sip and stay after show where we dish about our guests and make sure to come back this sunday at five for john truby and Leslie Lear And next Wednesday at seven as we welcome special guests Karin slaughter. So stick around for the after show. We'll see you in a second, Goodnight, good night night. Everyone saying in a minute. Yeah, what a night, what a night. So first welcome to our friends and fictions soup and stay with story points after show. We are so happy to be partnering with story point wines as the official sponsor of our after show all summer long. It will be the summer of story point here on Friends and fiction as they say at story point many great stories and ideas unfold over a shared bottle of wine as did Friends in Fiction. That's true. Every night through the end of august we hope you will stick around for the Friends and fiction front. I knew they shouldn't have trusted you with I'm doing it. I'm fiction after show so you can sip and stay with story points okay with you. Yes. Well what a night that was amazing. Kristen I felt like before the show just for everybody like watching, having that many guests is stressed really stressful, especially for the host and I felt like we needed to play like eye of the Tiger for you. Like midway through. I mean you really nailed that. It was great. You pumped up your Alabama Erica. You did it behind a stars. I mean, I, we, I wish we dared show up a pre show because before you all came on when you sang a bomba for us. Oh my gosh, I know it was amazing. It was like sort of kidding. I said we have a few minutes to kill. How about we seeing Obama and then he did it and with a little dance and with the whole spanish part amazing. I know the only reason it shouldn't be on camera because we actually danced and it was good. Are you saying we're not talking about we're not triple threat. I actually don't think I'm a single threat can sing dance. Not she's depressing. Eagle watches out right? Like what is it? The Emmy grammy Oscar Tony right. Greatest guys I guess just like the other three novelist like drive and Addison and page he had to figure out how to get his book published. He got rejected Right just because you are on every TV screen from 1980 to 2020. It really is. We just say like Oh here's my book, you can't know, I loved hearing that and I wish we'd had a little bit more time. We were kind of I know we were all really conscious of the clock because we wanted to make sure we have time for everything. I would have loved to ask him a little bit more about that. Um but if there was a polite way to say like how does it feel to be lou diamond phillips and to have someone say no you know what I mean? Because you are in a world of yes well in some ways but then you know now that I'm thinking about it, I'm sure there have been roles he's been turning so it's probably something he has learned over the years. But yeah, it is it's interesting to hear though that the doors don't just open but you guys, I don't know if any of you looked him up on imdb I was writing the intro, he has literally been on everything like I don't even think I can think of a show that aired on television that lou diamond phillips has not guest starred on at some point. I mean his body of work is astounding. It makes me think of taylor Jenkins Reid last week when she the quote that she uses of everybody wants to be Cary Grant Grant.

Cary Grant said even I want to be I wonder if lou feels that way like okay, so that's separate and that you know. Yeah, because he said uh exhausting. Yeah, real and yes. Sweet. Yeah, No, you're absolutely right. And the friend who introduced us which is how he wound up coming on the show, the friend I mentioned Michelle um that was the first thing she said when she brought him up. Not, I mean she said he wrote a book but she said the reason you should have him is because he's warm and kind and nice and like and you can see that you know, you can see that on the show but I feel like even if you spend a half hour reading through his twitter feed um he's just a good guy, he does so much to support teachers. Um He uh he talks about cats all the time. He's just yeah, he's friends with chris Bohjalian like christmas tree, you know when I was interested in um was not just the successes that he talked about failures because none of us have success until we, until we've experienced failure until we've experienced rejection. And I've heard so many stories over the years, it's it's actually kind of a funny, funny genre of the book business about editors saying well I turned down such and such book and you know, look what a giant idiot I was for saying no to that. Like Margaret Mitchell apparently had just like scrapbooks full of rejection letters from editors saying no, no thanks. But I always think about the help. I mean, I mean I can't remember how many times she said that book was rejected, but remember listening to an interview like when I was trying to get published and being like okay, all right, you know, even that book was rejected a bunch of I wonder how many of these debut novelists went through, right um to get their first um and that giddy feeling when your first book is coming out. Uh huh. Everybody who's had novels rejected oh gosh, yeah I had a manuscript before, oh this is great, yeah, I had a manuscript before dear Carolina that I signed with a literary agent for. And I mean, you know, I, kind of look back and I'm like, I don't know if eventually, maybe it would have found an editor, but Dear Carolina wanna writing. But I mean, it has certainly been rejected a handful of times. And then I randomly got this contract for your Carolina through a contest. But, like, it definitely, yeah, I felt the feeling, remember my agent being like, you're going to get rejected a lot. Like, you know, I mean, I remember getting my fifth rejection and being like, so are we done? And he was like, uh, no, probably, what about you get rejected? Oh, gosh. I mean, I'm sitting here feeling that weird pit in my stomach. Um My first novel Um was my 4th novel. I talked about that a lot. So, and then when my agent decided to take my first novel out, I mean, it was rejection rejection. And I did the same thing, Christie, I was like, I guess it's just not gonna work. Maybe we should do what she was like, we are not done. I remember getting the call. So, and then what's crazy y'all and what writers out there needs to know, probably for the same for everybody, every single rejection had a different reason you in and fix everything. Everybody said you can't because they're all different one. Person thinks it's to this and the other person thinks it's too that so, rejection patty, Do you want to hear something funny? Someone, you know, someone that rejected? Well, it's it's like a specific to you story. But yes, it's for everybody. But it's specific to you. The editor, there was an editor that we pitched to that said, um, that she really liked Dear Carolina because I guess did we go out on sub for that after? I don't know, I don't remember the timeline. But anyway, um, that said that she had just published a story about adoption and it was yours. Yeah. Because like I just Dear Caroline like right now it's not funny. I mean wildly different. I mean like I feel like the plot lines are like, you know, very different, but still they were both like centered around adoption. Yeah. I think everybody out there wants to know this really important newsflash Sean is saying hello to all of us from his vacation at the beach. Fine, fine. You give a shout out to Erica though who filled in from for Sean tonight? Uh, on...

...a really on a tough night. We threw a lot after she rocked it. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you chris did you have rejection letters? Yeah. You know my first book that I wrote was nonfiction. Um, it was a guide to survival guide to your twenties. Um, and that is how I got my first literary agent who signed me for that book and then said, um, I don't think I can take this book out because it's kind of stupid and you're 23 you have no idea how to survive your twenties. Um but it was well written and I'd like to see what else you can do. So that's how my shouldn't even shop it. She was just like, yeah, this was dumb, I should have told you that before, such, oh my God, after you wrote the book, she told me it was dumb. You know, I think I had written sample chapters in an outline, but you know, I signed thinking like fantastic, we're going out with this survival guide your twenties and she was like, no, no, no, what else happened for me? Well you know, I was still a newspaper reporter and I had this great idea. I had covered two of the murder trials that eventually were the basis of Midnight Midnight in the Garden of Eden, a little book in Savannah, I can't move them as a reporter for the newspaper. And so I had this idea and um through, through contacts, I found a guy who was a pretty big literary agent in new york and he had a friend at harpercollins and it happened to be my dear friend Celestine is publisher and editor at harpercollins. And so Larry loved the idea, I was going to write a book about these two murder trials and about the case. Yeah, so Larry jed Madison, he's his name and um Larry took it to the way it works at big publishing houses is an editor that wants to acquire a book, takes it to the meeting and they go around the table and they talk about you know, this, I want to acquire this book. And Larry said this this reporter in Atlanta covered these two murder trials very sensational and I think it will be a great true crime book. And someone else said, well yeah, that's good. But there's this guy named john Barrett who wrote a story or I think he'd written a story for GQ maybe about it. And um and he had a contract. And so they all went, yeah, I know that this this chicken Atlanta. No. So um you know, my whole thing that I had pinned everything on well apart because it fell apart. So I started writing another mystery. This was a true, this was a mystery set in Savannah where I had worked as a newspaper report because I was fixated on Savannah and with that same um publisher, with the same editor at harpercollins, but a different agent and he rejected it and and other editors rejected it. But out of that I got my first agent. That's awesome. You have had to listen to all of us been rejected. So what from an outsider's point of view? Like I'm laughing because I worked in a house for so long and I, you know about all that happened when you said they took it to the meeting? I was I was thinking to myself, yeah. They call that the ac ed meeting. Ac is a Q which stands for acquisitions. And there was one of those every, you know, week and then there was also the slush pile meeting which they made the editorial assistance, read the unsolicited manuscripts that were, you know, you always hear those like crazy stories of like somebody discovered somebody in the slush pile. Like I think that's where J. K. Rowling was discovered in this Nicholas Sparks. Yeah. Was an agent slush pile who died. Oh my gosh, his assistant was like his assistant was Teresa Park. I mean superstar agent. Yeah wow. So Maggie, you've listened to the other side where it's just like rejection. We're over here like ice picking apart and there at the table. Not that, not that I know. So do you think about that like when you're on your end of it, are you thinking about how is telling us now is going to shatter our hopes and dreams? No, because I feel like when I work for authors, I'm there to tell them yes, I'm not there to tell them no. And but if I wouldn't choose to work on a book um to do the marketing and pr for a book if I didn't believe in it. So I am there to market it like it's the next biggest bestseller regardless of what it is. Absolutely no, I'm not in the business of telling you guys know we're breaking your heart. You've got, you've gone through all of that before you come to know and exactly when you were on the table, like when he was going down the table, like at the act meetings, was it? I mean I didn't go to those because I worked in marketing, so I wasn't, in fact, but I would I had friends who were editorial assistance...

...and they would go to that meeting in the slush pile meetings and stuff. Maybe I was jealous of the slush pile meetings because they got them free pizza, a port 24 year old rugby because it was like three pizza. How do I get in on that? Like a bag. Was there ever a book that you were handed to market that you thought God, this thing is a bomb, it's never going to go anywhere and it took off and it was like a shock to you. Well, you know, we worked on this is it's not fiction and it's not whatever, but there's a little book called who moved my cheese or you guys familiar with? Yeah, so it became this huge phenomenon and no one expected it and I was working at putting them at the time and you know, it just started selling like crazy. And so again, another name for one of these group meetings, Phyllis Grant who ran put them at the time, said we're going to put together a group of people were going to call you the cheese board and we're going to make you come up with ideas for what to do with this book. I want cheese board that comes with the planning meeting and tell us what we're going to do with this runaway success. I uh I don't and why is it? And she's like, don't call it dumb. It's keeping the lights on. All right. That is incredible though. I mean, I, you know, and you hear people say that all the time, like if we knew what was going to be a big hit, that's all we would publish, yep, that's true. Yeah, but let's be that, let's be that. All right. Let's be let's be the cheese. Yeah, rotary board. Yes. The author who requires their own board within the Yeah, Right charcuterie board. I want to be the author that requires a board of any kind. Speaking of charcuterie boards, I need to go eat something before you and I will see you all at the Friends and Fiction board meeting in the morning charcuterie. Thank you. IOC everyone. Thanks Erica. Thanks Good night. Mhm. Thank you for tuning in, Join us every week on Facebook or YouTube where our live show airs every Wednesday night at seven p.m. eastern time. And please subscribe to our podcast and follow us on instagram. We're so glad you're here.

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