Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 5 months ago

Friends & Fiction with Emily Giffin and Harlan Coben + Kate Quinn on the After Show

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The Fab Four have a blockbuster night with three rockstar guests. Meet two #1 bestselling athors Emily Giffin and Harlan Coben on the main show. The crew chats about Harlan's latest THE MATCH and how he researched it, and about Emily's latest MEANT TO BE and the challenges of writing about very real and ver well-known people. They also chat about writing process, writerly friendships, and developing work for the silver screen, with lots of laughs along the way. On the after show, Kate Quinn returns to F&F to tell us all about her latest THE DIAMOND EYE, with a surprise appearance from her husband!

Welcome to friends and fiction for New York Times best selling authors endless stories. Novelists Mary Kay Andrews, Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callaghan Henry are for longtime friends with more than seventy published books between them. Together they host friends and fiction with author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing to highlight and support independent book stores. They discussed the books they've written, the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hi Everyone, it is Wednesday night and that means we are right here with you for friends and fiction. We have the most amazing evening ahead of us. I can see all of your comments. I'm so excited for tonight, so let's get it started. I am Patty Callaghan Henry, I'm Christy Woods and Hartley, I'm Mary Kay Andrews, I'm Kristin Harmel, and this is friends and fiction for New York Times best selling authors endless stories, to support indie bookstores, authors and Librarians. Tonight we are talking with Emily Giffen and Harlan Coben and for the afterwards show we will be talking with Kate Quinn. I mean, what more could you possibly want in one show in one night? I know it's completely dampacked. It's amazing, okay, but first we are so grateful for your overthetop amazing response to our new behind the book partnership with our friends at table, a free APP for your phone or tablet with loads of incredible book clubs to join. If you stick around later in the show, we'll be clearing up a bit about how it works and why it's worth that five dollars a month price to read along with us in our premium club to make sure to stay tuned for that later on. And have you heard that the flour of us are all on the road together this summer? You have two more chances to join us in person at a ticket of event at Bethany Beach Books in Delaware on Wednesday July twenty and at a fabulous luncheon on Thursday July twenty one at the Rohoba Beach Country Club, also in Delaware, hosted by independent book store brows about books. You can find out more under the featured tab on our facebook page or by visiting brows about Bookscom or Bethany Beach Bookscom. Both of the beach towns are gorgeous, so it's a great excuse to go on a summer vacation if you don't have one booked. But make sure to buy your tickets in advance, because we hear that these events are selling really well. So we don't want we want to get a chance to hang out with you. So we hope we'll see you there and do not forget, as you know, we continue to encourage you to support Indie book stores one and where you can, and one way, we think a great way to do that as to visit our own friends and fiction bookshop dot org page, where you can find emily's books, Harlan's books and Kate's books and books by the four of us and our past guests at a discount. So each week we're going to be giving you a chance to ask US anything. So if you have a question you'd like the four of us to answer or a topic you'd like to discuss, were all ears in fact field. Free to drop questions in the comments now and we'll pick them up for future weeks, because we want to help answer some of the things you want to hear about. But this week we're going to do something ever so slightly different, because we have a brand new cover to reveal and you guys are the very first to see it. No, we might very quest well, we well, I don't know. Maybe she has just recently learned Christy has other friends other than us. So Weird, I know. I know painting. So we may not have actually been the verse to see it. And I'm going into my pillow after, after we finish this show. See, might have heard that Christie's brand new the summer of Song Birds, releases April twenty five of next year. So, Sean, do we have a cover we can show? Can I do a drum roll? That is it's perfect. It's perfect. Yeah, okay, Christy, since we warned the first ones to see the cover, he please, who can tell everybody about the new book? So tell the rest of these people about the summer of songbirds first. So just like to clear up that we're the first people to see the cover. I said it to you guys before I even said it's my mom. Don't tell her, I know she's watching. I love it, I love it so much. But the summer of songbirds is coming out you for twenty five, like we said, so it's a little while away. But it is about three best friends, Daphne, Lanier and Mary Stewart, who met its summer camp, and Daphne's aunt June, who buys the camp after a tragedy in her life. So after the summer of two thousand and twenty,...

...the camp is struggling to make ends meet, like a lot of camps were in real life, and these four women band together to try to save it. And at the same time Daphnee, who is an attorney, find out something about her best friend Lanier's fiance that is protected by attorney client privilege, and so she has to decide whether she's going to tell her and potentially get disbarred and lose her job. She's a single mother, so it's a big decision, or if she's going to let this sort of the only person who's always been there for her walk down the aisle not knowing this big thing about this man that she's about to marry. But laniar has a secret of her own and when Daphne uncovers it it might just change the way that she feels about everything. So I'm so excited. I'm finishing up the edits on this book right now. I cannot wait to share it with you and I was just going to say that I actually got the idea for it my son's summer camp was canceled in two thousand and twenty, but the camp actually like did this fun reboot and we all got to here to only camp instead, and was so fun and it was a camp that has been around for like seventy, five or eighty years and I just remember thinking if these walls could talk like the stories and can nations of women who have been at this camp. And so that's really what inspired the story and I'm just so excited to get to share it with you guys. But ladies, so far asks anything this week. Briefly, I just wanted to know can you share one of your favorite Summer Memories? You know I'm not the right one to start this off because I never went to summer camp. Can you believe it? I never did. It have to be camp memory, true. So I will say that one of the summer memories that sticks in my mind and then I think will always be in my mind, is that every summer we went to visit my parent and my grandparents at their house on Cape Cod and I can still smell how the house smelled and envision walking in and seeing my grandfather standing there cooking his bacon and potatoes at the stove. But it was just such a meaningful time and it still is. I still have very warm thoughts about that. I love that. I'm really disappointed you didn't tell us about your memories of Band camp, Christen. Oh, I think good a bad camp, but it was not asleepaway camp. Okay, next time I'll tell you about this one time as ban. Yeah, we had five kids in my family, so there was no money for summer camp, but my mom did send us today camp at the brick that the elementary school. So my memories revolve around ten cent popsicles, reading comic books in the school cafeteria to get out of the heat, Um kickball and arts and crafts pop holders. I love it. I totally made arts and Crafts Pot holders. I wish I had kept them. They're probably a solemn vintage on etsy for like a million. Our moms tended to act like super excited about them. I'm Oh, another pot holder. Pot holder. I've ever seen it always US popsickle frame. We spent our summers, like Christen, in Cape Cod. My Dad was a preacher and he would leave for two months every year. They got like a reading two months and we spent it up there. So just thinking about summer makes me think about Cape Cod. It's just so fun. I know, No camp for me. If I ever went to camp it was with the youth group. That's so camp though. Accounts. Yeah. So there's one question from Elane Atwood that I thought we'd quickly addressed. She said I would like to know how to find book signing schedules. I was lucky enough to meet Kristen but I missed Mka. So easy, easy answer for you, Elane Atwood. The newsletter. Every week we've got out a newsletter. It has everyone's appearances and events in it and interviews with our guests. So Emily and Harlan are in it this week and all our websites are always up to date. All right, let's welcome our guests, Emily Giffen and Harlan Covin, to Number One New York Times best sellers in one show. Emily Giffen is a dear friend and the New York Times best selling author of eleven novels, including something borrowed, something blue and love, the one you're with. Emily's dead. Your novel, something borrowed, was hailed as heartbreakingly honest and Vanity Fair would later dub her as a modern day Jane Austin. Her books have been translated into thirty one languages and over twelve min million copies have been sold worldwide. Initially. Additionally, five our novels have been optioned for the big screen, with the first, something borrowed, hitting theaters in May, two thousand and eleven, with the all star cast of Kate Hudson, Jennifer good one and John Krasinski. I just know we're going to see the other day. Yeah, it's like a heart beat, like so, so good. Still totally hold time. Absolutely. And Native of Chicago, Emily Graduated Summa Cublad from Wake Forest University and the University of Virginia School of law. After law school, she moved to Manhattan to practice litigation at a...

...large firm for several years before ultimately retiring from the legal profession and moving to London to pursue her dream of becoming a writer full time, which I think we can all agree was a decision we support. It was a great choice. We would give them the sounds up. Yeah, exactly. Emily resides in Atlanta with her husband and three children. Her new novel meant to be, which I just finished yesterday and loved, was just published on May thirty one. Harling Covin is the everyone New York Times best selling author of more than thirty novels, including when the boy from the woods runaway fully once and tell no one. His books have been published in forty five languages around the globe, with over seventy five million books in print worldwide. Well, Harlon is a mystery throller Mega Star. He was first author to win the Edgar, Shamus and Anthony Ward all at the same time, which is the triple crown, and his novels have been called in genius by The New York Times and pointed and incifle by then La Times. He was the first writer in more than a decade to be invited to write fiction for the New York Times op ED page and his father stay short story, the key to my father, appeared on June fifteen two thousand and three. His essays and columns have appeared in many top publications, including the New York Times, Bloomberg views and our friends at Parade magazine, our friends. Harlot is also the Creator and executive producer of several net netflix television dramas, including stay close, the stranger safe and the five. He served as executive producer and show runner for two French TV miniseries. These BIOS are so similar to mine it's just eating. It's like whatever knows same two reads. A native of New Work New Jersey, Harland still lives in New Jersey and he lives in the town where I was born and he lives there with his wife and his four children, Sewan. Can You bring emily and Harlan on please? Oh yeah, welcome. We are so excited to have you both. I'm not sure if we can control this, emily, I'm not sure if we can control this episode with the two of you, but here goes. Let's try. Let's start here. I want you to tell us what your latest book is about, so we have the match, which is incredible, nonput downable and meant to be. I want you to tell us what it is about, but also I want you to tell us what it is really about and when you knew. I know, so what it's about then, what it was, what it's really about, and maybe when you knew what it was really about, because there's always like that moment. Sometimes it's the next draft or the next or the next. So, Ladies First, Emily, I think of role should go first, because his publicationed it was first. Okay, yeah, you're in charge. You know. He really difference meant to be. is about really about? It was really about one of the first people to beat emilies. He was what I read it. Send it to him. When I've been absolute self loathing panic mode. I will send it to Harlan and he'll tell me it's not that bad, you're okay, you do it all this well. He is one of my early readers and I appreciate that so much about you, Harlon. Thank you. So what, anyway, her book is really about. Nobody do your book first. He quickly the I got the idea for the match which made help the splain what it's about when I was hiking through the woods around up the mountains here in New Jersey, which I don't like hiking woods, I find it immensely boring. There's a trade and there's another gree again. It's treats I got. I prefer walking in cities where you're seeing people's faces, book stores, window shopping, all of that. So I'm renting to my family the way I'm ranting to you people that hit the bugs and hell hating it. And I saw like a five year old boy walking on a parallel trail. I said to myself, what if this boy just came out of the woods and says he remembers no life, but he's lived here his whole his whole life. There was no life but this. No parents, no idea how he got there, broken to cabins to raise himself. Has No idea how he got there. And thirty years pass any still no one still knows how we got there. And then he gets a DNA match, the match, and as the book opens, he standing across the street from his biological father, and that was this sort of the hook and the beginning that became the match emily over the year. Well, about what's really about? Well, it's really there's much more.

I'm not that deep. They han't understand you are. I'm really not family. That family about redemption, about what we try to keep hidden. What comes back to haunt us. This is a it's about friendship and his partner. You know, he's about thirty five to forty years old, is a seventy year old woman and I thought that would be really kind of interesting to explore. That's it. I'm being serious over here. How about you, emily? Well, I will say that Harlan sends me his books to before, you know, in the early stages, and I love this one and I really love all of your books, but this one is just it's probably my favorite. Thank you and my edits to Harlan's books typically consist of changing up the jewelry of his know that no one would wear act wear that. Oh my gosh, like B this screen. She and sex in the city, like well, it's nice. She has like Turquoise Jewelry. I have is jewelry. Are Is. So it's like so specifically depressing. I'm like no, she's like a high power. It's me. She's not going to wear like you know, Arizona Gift Shop, scrolling in Turquoise Jewelry as my two poise tonight. Dang it, it just didn't. It didn't work for this. Yeah, so it's really like valuable input. I think I think it's really the difference probably between him selling, you know, thirty five million and seventy million right there book. Yeah, and also sends me, Arland, sends me the covers and the new cover. Could have you done your cover reveal on the new rover? Okay, it, Harland is. What did I tell you? Like whoa usually don't pretty critical of covers. Thank you, Christie. I love your cover, I love your cover and I love cover reveals. And Arlon, yours is this is my favorite of yours so far. Kind of by far it was. I had no suggestions, no color tweaks, no criticisms, no snarky comments, just meant to be. It's love story, set of the S. it's takes place in New York City, in the Hampton's and it follows the unexpected romance between the nation's most eligible bachelor from a very connected, powerful, glamorous family and young woman from very different background and a bit of a troubled past. And so the book explores the question of, you know, whether love can conquer all and whether, sir, relationships are meant to be get it. Yeah, so out. What's IT really about? Was It really about? Yeah, Harlin, you answer that one. I'm hassing the book. What's that? I'm passing the book to You. Did to answer what your book is really about? It's the love that's destined to happen one way or the other. Yeah, going through a lot of turmoil and it's certainly based somewhat or inspired by, not based on, inspired by a certain historical yeah, romance that was very important into to you, obviously, and to a lot of us in the was it? I guess, the S JFK, junior and Carol so people. I think we'll really kind of enjoy that that aspect, also that you giving them a little taste of nostalgia for a different era, which is not a bad thing at this stage of the game. The S. would you hear the s? Do you think? Oh, don't you think? It's a two decades ago? Does it seem like freading needs to know? It doesn't, it doesn't know. I think we're all just in denial. But yes, I totally agree. But I guess that's a function of our age, right. Yes, and you had some you know, some of us are younger than others on here, but if you're born in two thousand you're not going to be confused about that. When I was back in back in my old college, I was kind of like telling the kids a little bit like the students they're about what it was like, and I realized basically my informations about is relevant as a guy from one thousand nine hundred and forty. Tell me you got my college experience now. Yeah, so, yeah, it's kind of just it's a little disturbing. But you know, the s they feel. I feel like you have to be enough removed from a decade, like three decades removed, before they become nostalgic. Otherwise it's just like dated. And then we saw that with the S. there's always like...

...s themed parties and s this and s that, and now I feel like it's s or they're having their turn and it's it feels a little surprising just to those of us who feel like the s were like a second ago. But and and I've talked about I don't bring my kids in the s. So right it doesn't seem. Yeah, times that Pattie and said. I text to Patti and said it like made me realize how important it is when you're writing about something that doesn't seem that long ago. It's like really set that time period, because you're like wow, like it really was cut. I mean it doesn't sound like a long time ago, but like it kind of was, when you're actually like being put back into that time. I don't think there's this tendency where, you know, we feel nostalgic about the past. And I've I've said it, you know some of my book tour events. Like we have to be careful about that, right, because it's like, you know what, when my dad used to talk about, oh, the s, everything was great, I was like that, you know, Brown versus board of Education, one thousandnine hundred and fifty four, like you know, a lot of there was a lot of upheople in the S. I mean you think about, you know, Rodney King and you think about Monica Lewinski, held demon as. She was like how if that story broke now, she would be, you know, the me to think. I mean we made a lot of progress, but for purposes of meant to be in this book, I chose to sort of dwell on the more bulls and a rosier yeah, part of about that decade. And but I think it's it is important to sort of point out that it wasn't. It wasn't so great for in a lot of ways, I also like what it's all sorry, but it's really about me reading it. Emily is about becoming breaking free of the limitations of the family. She had to really break free of the limitations. I felt like that was a really important yeah, and he of his to come to terms with her place and her own family before she could like love. That's what that was my takeaway. Like she had to really like come to terms with, you know, her past and who she was before she could like envision a future. Oh, that was right. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Tell you what your book is about and say you, guys, we'll just talk about the book. Yeah, ask you guys a question. Do you have you if you were to marry someone who's that famous or to date someone that famous, like does that? Like? This is just my impression. I feel like Christie Woods and our be could live up to that, like she could just it would be all fine. They could do a deep dive in a Christie Wood puts in Harry and people magazine and all the time would come up teaches and roses. Yeah, and it would be like, oh, she's this is a Cinderella. This is like perfect. Not a similar necessarily, but like this is the perfect story. That doesn't happen. I think in most families, pro and yours is a little bit goody two shoes too. Yeah, yeah, mostly you wouldn't want to explore Maryka Andrews background because, yeah, let me, I would just be trouble man. There's a lot of there's a lot of nondisclosures. So I don't think it's I don't think it. Yeah, I'm monthly cut down. The chatter one is so unbelievably lower middle class, working class boring. Well, you know, there's a great quote from Flaubert where he said to be regular, normal and bourgeois in your real life so you can be violent and original in your work. I'm drinking us with the flow bear quote. You Jersey Bear on the table when you're tossing flow bear around, one of my favorites. That's an awesome, awesome quote. Well, you know, emily, I have to say I finished your book yesterday. Loved it, finished it sobbing and it hit home for me, I think, in a really specific way because the summer that JFK junior died, I was actually working on the floor right above him. So I worked for Woman's Day, which was on the forty second floor, and he worked for George on the forty one floor. You like the fluse? No, Gosh, no, I know I was a my s but thank you, I appreciate that. And so, you know, I spent the first half of that summer thinking of him literally every single day, because every time I get into our shared elevator I'd be wondering if that would be the day that I would see him. So when he I mean it sounds like a silly reason to feel so connected to it, but I mean he had literally been in my thoughts every day. So when he died, it wasn't just that, I don't know, that sense of loss, it was that our building became a shrine to...

...him. So, you know, we would go into work. It was this big building on Broadway and the entire front of the building was covered with flowers, teddy bears, photographs and literally every single day for the rest of that summer people were crying outside. So it was a very it was like kind of something I don't know that just I experienced again and again. So reading your book really just kind of reawakened all of that in me. So that was it was really powerful for me and I thought it was so well done. So what I wanted to ask is, when you're even obliquely writing about real people, it can be daunting to try and imagine the inner workings of their life, their heart, their emotions, you know, all of that that really belongs to them. But that did in order to tell their story right, you know you have to go there, you have to dive deep. So you tell this tale from both kate and Joe and alternating viewpoints and you know, from their parents to their extended family. We know them and then we believe their most intimate moments. I mean I felt like I was seeing their story unfold. I know it was. It's not about them, but it gave me such insight into their story. So, after that long introduction, I was wondering, how was that for you writing something that was based loosely on someone still well known, and how did you get behind their eyes with such intricate detail? Well, I that's incredible that you worked in his building, isn't that crazy? We have to talk about that all off soon, you know, including the how many times did you were you in the elevator with him. I've a lot to ask you about that. will do that later. You know, I grew up fascinated by the Kennedy's. My mother feeled that, along with this fascination of the Royal Family, which is sort of like the Kennedy's, are America, you know, America's royals, and it's sort of the same way. It was thinking about that, like how do you influence your child in that way? We see it all the time, you know, with your grandfather teaches you to be a young he's Fan, even if you grow up in Nebraska. You know, it's like you just like pick up these things, and so I was always interested in them. Fast forward to the mid S. like you, I moved to New York City after I graduated from law school, my first, you know, real job, because I went straight from college to law school. And you were aware, you, everyone was aware that JFK lived and work there. The junior that you. You knew you with George magazine. You knew we've broken up with Daryl Hannah. You knew he was now dating Carolyn Bassett, engaged that married, and you knew where they hung out. You know from the tablet which were there. Was it wasn't. You know, there wasn't social media, but you had these tablets. You knew they were at l Teddy's and the Odeon and certain places and you would look for them. And I didn't work in his building, which yeah, but fast forward again, July ninety nine. You know the the and I think we all, you know, anyone who was alive at the time and sort of aware of his life. You we all pinned a lot of hopes on him being happy. We wanted him to be the happily ever after to make up for that little boy saluting his father's casket and his father died. And so when he when he died in that plane crash in July ninety nine, I was in the Hampton's, I was with friends, I was in the basement. I talked about this in my author's note, so I won't go into that. But you know, just the feeling of wow, this isn't this isn't going to this isn't going to happen, that they're there, that this is like even more trot. This is as tragic as you know, is father's dead. It's just like who, so unbelievable and so I think I was. I was practicing law. I wasn't a writer. I was, I was, I was writing. So I should say I was a writer. I just wasn't a published writer, but I was writing another novel that was never published. And I think, you know, as a writer we all sort of we couch a lot of our fiction in this notion of like what if, you know, whether it's like fanciful or rooted in reality. It's like what if. What would that be like? What would it be like to follow them up with your best friends for absol something bar? What would it be like if the kid grew up in the in the woods, you know, with you know, and then suddenly came into society like, you know, Harland's Harland's book. There's so I think a lot of that what if and those fueled this piece of fiction. Now that said, you know it really is. It really is, you know, fiction. It's there's Joe comes with a very famous family, as father was an astronaut in a time when astronauts were as biggest politicians and you know, but Kate Cooper is very different than Caroline Bassett, who was kate was cat. Caroline Baett was decided like middle class British Connecticut Surgeon, stepfather, you know, went to college. So once I got into the characters and really started to like develop them, it became it was very easy to separate from if k junior...

...and Carolina set and and so from that point on, which was about kind of a third of the way in, I think that's would you all agree it sort of a third of the way in, as when we as writers like it starts to feel real, like we're you know, it starts to it starts to feel easier, because if the characters we created or becoming real, do you get afferent? Now? Of course, prime master. Yeah, it's right exactly. And so at that point it was just about putting little nuggets in of the people who are sort of hardcore, you know, Kennedy fans, they they'll recognize. But if you don't never follow them or if you're born, you know, after thees, it won't affect your reading of the book. So it's a good point. Yeah, I thought it was so well done, emily. Well, thank you, Christen, thank you, and you've all been so kind privately in sending me messages along the way and I just I really appreciate it. I love that about your your whole you know, friends and fiction, to support of writers, all writers, not just women writers. Harlem's here tonight, but it's just really it's very palpable and you really feel it and it's it's special what you guys have created. So thank you for having me on for the second time and for being such good, good friends as well as like writerly colleagues. Thanks. Thank you. Very nice of you to say. We appreciate that very much. I'll answer for all of us, because we're the same from morphing into one of her more we are we are one share brain. Yes, all right. So, Harlan, we have all we love this title and the Double Entendre of the title, the match. We've got the DNA match and the starting of the fire, which is amazing. So did you have to do a lot of DNA match research and did you dig into any of your own family DNA and history while you were writing this book? First of its kind of interesting that we do a five women and one man and look at the backgrounds. I love like a like basement and Bagdad or something. We did one from the library and sitting there I was going to rip on you for that, Harland, but I'm just I don't know, I'm sorry about that. Ones on Zoom I they send me fake ones to use member so I just sat down late. Anyway, there's the question greater one out of sands, I mean one of the match to be a lot of different things. I want to I want to explore online trolling. I wanted to explore these DNA websites. I wanted to explore those, those awful reality Romance TV shows, and if you like them, that's that's cool, but I just love to explore the how manipulative they are. And wasntually. First of all, the all I'm one of the few authors who said as this, so I don't know if any of you guys are great, but everybody else, and if you're warning historical, of course it's different. I advise people when they're writing to not do so much research. I think research is a hindrance. I will defend that position quickly. First of all, have you ever read that book where the authors just fall in love with his research, so he's slowing down the plot because he or she knows, loves all this stuff? Doesn't happen with me because I don't know anything I'm going to need to know basis. So that's that's first of all. Second of all, research is a lot more fun than writing, isn't it? So, Oh, I'm going to write the scene on Park Avenue in New York the first after God and to watch people on five. Now you know, you've been there, you know it. You can use Google Earth right now and then worry about the exact research later. So with the DNA stuff, I knew just enough to get me in trouble. I did do it. I was so sure I was going to have like this fascinating, cool background. You know, I'm six foot four and I have blue eyes and I'm Jewish and it's ninety nine point eight percent Ashkenazy gyp I'm just it's nothing else in there any place. So I was a little disappointed in that. But I took the actual test letter. Not I called up twenty three and me, I'm always a big fan, and out you guys feel we can open this up, because I'm also a little bit on the lazy side. I don't like to go through a hundred books to get the information. I will usually call somebody. So if I want to know in FBI agent question, I call on FBI agent. If I want to know how DNA works, I'll find someone who works at twenty three and me, or one of those them both places, and just call them and asked him. I wish that you get that nugget, that little bit of realism, that one little moment that makes it all come to life, rather than a ton of information that's not going to be very interesting. I'm, yeah, aasy researcher too. I get that. I love the Pan Research because you know you're talking to someone that they...

...love what they do in the in in the best of circumstances they'll just drop in some aside that leaves you with your jaw hanging and go. And I didn't think of that. And if you just, you know, deep dive into dusty books, maybe you won't find that. But if you talk to someone they may, you know, and lots of times they do, because I find people love to talk about what they do. Yeah, they do. Yeah, and Harlan, everyone's asking online and we all want to know too. Is there a sequel? This is, you know, I want to create or both. The match. The first book in the Callit a series, is wild boy from the boy from the woods and when I wrote started boy from what's I realized right away was going to be at least two books series because it's not as origin story. The match is Batman's parents being murdered story. You know, it's just it's his origin. So you can the match first and then go back and with the boy from woods. I don't know if they'll be back In't answer the overall question, which I'd be curious with you guys too. I have a serious I have a serious character, Myron Bolletar. I have standalone's, I have now wild. I come up with the idea first and I explained how I came up with both the boy from the woods of the match, and then when I come up with the idea I ask who's going to tell that story and if the answers Myron, it's a Myron Bollatur. If it's wild, it'll be wild. If it's somebody completely knew, which is most of the time, it's someone completely new. I never say now I'm going to write a Myron, now I'm going to write a while. Oh, whatever the idea is. I could the next book is not any of them. It's just an understand alone with a new characters. I do expect to. I will write both of them again, maybe even together. I just don't know until I come up with that. That what if? Yeah, yeah, okay. So, Emily and Harlon, you have both had the experience of seeing your work on the big or small screen and I wish you talked to us about that experience. Harl and, I know you've been very involved in some of your projects. Does working in a different media change the way you think about writing fiction? It doesn't change at all how I write a book. But but the caveat to that is I am willing and do make enormous changes. When I do adaptations, I don't, I think, the worst out of Patians often stay slavishly devoted to the text. So, you know, I put them in other countries. I just had to want to hold for peach, say, instead of New Jersey. We did Warsaw. So I like making changes. I also think it's a visual medium versus a book. So they're very, very different things. If you write a book thinking this will make a really good movie, you usually dead. So I just were you know, they're very different things. You get in somebody said so I never think that way when I'm actually right, right. I was thinking more in terms of has has doing adaptations taught you anything like big picture? I don't think so for the most part. You know, it's a bit of a hindrance in terms of writing though the things, because people are listening to us now. And Emily coined this phrase, so I'm stealing this from Emily, where we talked about this amongst ourselves, that we are socially adept introverts. It's not great because we basically we spend most of our time and most of our lives sitting in rooms. Mine were depressing, then yours clearly making stuff up. I mean that's what we do. Know, I'm very happy you're doing that. And then when I doing the TV, I will go out and I'll be excited about going on said or talking to the actors or cast. I did have like three days and then I want to run back and be in this room alone. So they're kind of feeding off each other in a sort of interesting way. But are I'm curious, I'm sure, emily, what can I look to your emily's answer on this as well? But that's socially a depth introvert. I watch all four of you quickly nod at that, because all the yeah, yeah, and I know you guys hang out and you're good friends, but we all meet our lone time the grocery card around a target. I five. Why is it only not in the grocery card Attar a target, is she? Yeah, I'll meet you at the two story target anytime, you say, but you got to get into that cart yourself. Tree selling EG and the no dollar tree. All right, Emily Europe. Well, I mean you guys. I've done one adaptation. It was...

...ten, eleven years ago. So I mean, how many have you done, Harlan? Like ten, eight, yeah, someone. So, I mean it's it's kind of that should be just his question. I thought it was so much fun. I really enjoyed it. I would agree with Harlan that, you know, you turn the reins over and I just want it to be true to the tone of the characters and though and I want my readers not to feel like what this is out a left field. But I don't think they will if there's minor plot things being, you know, the lies that bind is actually being turned into a limited series. Who knows if it'll happen, but I read the pilot and it was fabulous and she had this plot twist and cliffhanger at the end of season, the episode one and the end of the pilot that I hadn't written and I thought was fabulous. And you know, I'm all for just seeing you what what a TV writer can do with it. Now, Harland, this is a good time to ask you this. I've been dry. I've almost sent you this email like three times to you and Nicola, but we're he's gotten me on board with his producer. You tell them the situation with all we ever wanted. We're trying to make it. I mean I'm hoping to make it with my partner, who I've worked with on stay close, the stranger safe from the five we've made for shows together. Woman in Nicholas should learn in the writer, Nam Danny Brocklhurst, and I thought that would make a really kind of a cool series. So but as we all know, in all everyone in this room, and it's so hard to get things across that finish line. YEA, and it's, you know, the other side of it is assimily said, it's also really freaking cool. I mean you can be as jaded as you want, and I'm sure, emily, you had this experience to when you visit the set and you sit there or you meet the actors and you say, I had this silly little idea sitting in this room the corner. Now a hundred and fifty people are bring it to life. That will go in the case of Netflix. It Hits Two hundred million households ninety and a hundred and ninety million countries. Day. They snap their fingers and it goes out or whatever. However, why do people watch so much more TV than they read books? Guys, I know right, Starn't it? There's a lot of people, so it's it's a cool feeling. I was on the zoom with his producing partner and some of the heads of the studio in England. And what do you think? What do you what do you girls think? I wanted to talk about. Do you think there's W is ill like all, I'm like asking them and they were so to ask you that. Is She okay? I I don't think. I don't think she's really sick. I think she is, but you know, she's amazing. But they were, I think they thought like this is the most bizarre work zoom like development, because I'm important. Having nickel just gotten the obe or something like that from the Queen, like right before we she had tell them about that. She got deep she got the OBI. Why do? I don't know what it is, but she got from from the Queen. Why? Moment everyone knows that Patty. Everything was real that. But now let a knighted it was Prince Charles. Yes, who gave it? Charles did it. So and I'm like how are you not just freaking like, oh my gosh, and she was sort of lause about it. As her for a while that was coming. She was yeah, but she's maybe she was just being modest. But yeah, after living there for a few years, I was writing something borrowed. When I was living there, I quickly discovered that Americans can be a little more mean. They love their royally, love their mode. You know that, the monarchy to crown. They support it overwhelmingly, but we take it to a whole new look. We, we the collective being, some of US take it to another life. Observation, by the way, about this is I don't know if it's the camera angle, but all of your wine glasses look like super huge, like they're like any sleep. That is not that is not an illusion. That is Christy. Yours is look at me, my eyes, of my hat and I tell you, here's this pretty full of them. A couple of minutes. I've been what you got to do. I didn't write for a week when I had covids. I'm trying to you know my my lot alcohol level drop dangerously. An hanging you while everyone when it would we run it ran into each other on the airport. That was awesome. I'm like leaving my tour and I pull up in the car and it's the middle of him and world day weekends and no one's you know, one's really flying on Sunday and the only person I see is Cath Mary Kay and her has been Tom and I'm breaking out,...

...like trying to put the window down, like by big caddy Tom and the wappen? What fell out of the car when I opened the door? All her Queen Elizabeth doll drop out, which sounds right. Drivers trying to jumple all her stuff and all she really cares about is the doll. Trying to check our bags. We're going in New York for the covid trip, the whole different thing, and she goes hey damning like oh my God, it's emily. She's gone off on boot I and she looks even at early in the morning, she looks Glam and I look like, well, no, no, you know what, that's not true. Okay, you ned have on like a white tshirt. I will say that. Oh No, that's not true. In the reason that I didn't post the picture because I otherwise it would be good content, it was because I looked decidedly so hideous. And you know what, in the spirit of being right and proving myself right, I'm going to post that tonight. All right. Well, okay, terrible, but Queen Elizabeth suddenly became a second tear citizen to you because I dropped her in the street, like in the in the street to embrace you. I did not look her up until I had said, you know, my proper Cooppie to d I kind of I'm wondering how many people would would be granted that privilege with the Queen Great. I'm just I mean it's a small number. It's just small people on this but Patty Hawd have been you, I probably would have missed my flight because I would have talked to you like clutching, clutching her Queen Wlizabeth support doll your breast. Why I have to go through I can think about what. How are you going to go through security clutching that doll? I took her through. I'd certainly didn't check her, as you'll note, but I'll I'll say this what a cruel joke that my publisher played on me. I've been planning to go to the platinum jubilee. I was at the last one. It was planning on going to that end, they have my book come out on the on the same week, like, are you hitting me? Okay, direction that. We got to get this train back on track. So we ran out of time through live questions, but we all so many good ones. So if you have a chance, so many questions about sequels and about your books and how much they love your books, and so if you get time to go to the facebook page and look at some of the questions. But what we will not skip, because it's everybody's favorite thing, is we would love a good writing tip from both of you. So Emily, you want to go first. My writing tip is have a friend who hold you accountable, and Harlan is that person for me. We will when we get into writing slumps. We have like word count things like will go and we'll tell each other what our word count is. To just get the words down. It's a little depressing because his work count is always like super high, but like I adjust it for myself and the fact that he's one book a year and I'm one book every two years. But I think it's really important to remember just get the words down and don't be a perfectionist and just just write. Just write words down, get your story out and have someone who hold you accountable to that. Yeah, actually, Mine's fairly similar. I was thinking keep you give yourself permission to suck, for stress are supposed to suck. Only bad writers think they're good. We all think we suck. We all have imposter syndrome. I don't care how many books you write. Stephen King has it. He's expressed it to me. So the saying that I always say is you can always fix bad pages. You can't fix no pages. Yeah, get it down, you're going to fix them anyway. I look at it like diamond mining. Right, so the first thing you take out of the ground is this really ugly rock, that and but that's roll of value. It's right. Then the next drafts. You shine it, you cut it up and you make into something somebody wants to wear. Get that ugly rock out of the ground. Don't worry voice in your head that causes paralysis and says that you suck, because we all have it, the differences. Some of us we are able to fight for. I need hear that. That's the end of big drink drink heavily is made other people. When Madam Kid who said right drunk at it's sober, it was that fault. I think we're those little white guys. No offense, marling. Okay, you could you stick around just a couple more minutes. We have a couple quick announcements and then we have another question for Y'all. All right, so I'm going to get through this as quickly as I can. What we wanted to tell you a little bit about fable, but, as we mentioned earlier in the...

...show, there have been a lot of questions on the page about exactly what our premium club on the new fable APP is and how it works. So in other words, what makes it worth five dollars a month to join? So here is the brief answer, as brief as I am capable of being so first I want to say you know me, so I want to say that everything we do on this show is free for you, but our friends and fiction behind the book club is something completely different. So fable is an opportunity to actually read side by side with us. So each month one of the four of us leads the discussion about the book we've chosen and we put together lots of discussion questions and behind the scenes info along with our own thoughts, so you can go at your own pace and check in with the APP as you go to get insights for the part of the book you're reading. So, for example, right now we're reading Mary Kays the home workers, and just give you an example, if you reach chapter twelve, you can click on the milestone for chapter twelve. Within that milestone section, Mary Kay herself tells you all about the kind of these hidden secrets behind the scenes and then she asks a question which allows you to interact him and comes back in comments and your comments and so on and so forth. So it's this nice back and forth with the host author and with each other. We pick a book each month. We're starting next month with books not written by us. Christy will be hosting, she'll be asking the questions, she'll be leaving the discussion. It's just a really cool way to read as a community at a pace that's comfortable for you. And we will always be picking a book that we feature on the show, which I think is really important. So we'll be doing deep dives into the books we've already talked about here. So to clear up another question, you do not have to buy the book within the APP. You can read whatever copy you have on your own, you know, from Kindall, from your independent bookstore, from the library, however you get your books. It's just five dollars a month and you can find out more at tablecom, backslash, friends and fiction. Few I get that out. Is this what I taught about the Writers Block podcast? It is there. You know about our writers cast podcasts. They're different interviews than the show and we'll always post links under announcements each time a new one drops. On Friday on last episode Ron and Patty talked about the novel Darling Girl, which is retelling of Peter Pan by Liz mccowski. This Week Ron and meg will talk to Michael Ian Black About Council of Dad's Michael Am Black Council of Dad's about his book a better man for the father's Day episode. They had so much fun and I, for one, can't wait to listen. Yes, okay, guys, and it is a lot of announcements, but this is a brand new one. So if you're like kind of zoned out, this is time to come back in. We are so excited because we actually have not done this, I think, since we started the show in two thousand and twenty but we have teams up with book town to offer, for the first time and a couple of years, the friends and fiction first edition book subscription for two thousand and twenty three and the thing that makes a special as we all for have a book in it, which is really great. So this is a special edition friends and fiction subscription box and it includes new and signed hardcover releases for two thousand and twenty three from all of us. So that includes my the summer of Songbirds, which we just saw the cover for in April, Pattie's the secret book of Flora, Leah Christian's the Paris daughter and Mary Kay's Super Secret Holiday Project and September that we were not going to tell you the title for you because because I don't know it. I have my opinions just in case. You okay. You will also receive a really fun gift that you can only get in the subscription box, with the first box, which will tell you about in a couple of weeks. So it's four different boxes and the hundred and twenty five dollar subscription price include shipping and tax, so it's about twenty percent off of the cover price of the book. So Gay. So if you want to check that out, go to book town and look for our two thousand and twenty three first edition club. And just one more reminder. Our friends and fiction official book club is a separate facebook group that is run by Lisa Harrison and Brenda Gardener and features an author chat each month and an hour facebook live. And this month they are hosting mka on Monday at seven pm to do a deep dive into the home records. All right, before we talk to emily and Harlan again, don't forget we have the amazing Kate Quinn on the afterward show. Yes, we named our after show and it is called afterwards. Get it. Anyway, thanks to Mka, who always comes up with the catchy titles. Okay, so Harland and emily, writer friendships. They keep us going, they really do, and I know that you guys have an incredibly supportive friendship. So, emily, can you tell us how you and Harlon met and how does your friendship influence your work? Yeah, what's your origin story? Yeah, our origin story. We met on the today's show Green Room. We were...

...both recommending books and we, you know, just we had followed, we read each other's work prior to that and we just became friends after that. I don't I don't think that that I influence Harlan's work and I don't think he influences mine, but I think it in the sense that you need friends to support you and and get you to the finish line. He's those people for me for sure. Don't really I'm sorry, you daddy me. It's a rope who just so, Harland, I'm wondering how your writer friendships in general influence you're writing it, if there was anything specific about this book that you felt like one of your writer friendships kind of influenced. Harland has like three friends. I have no friends. Yeah, let's emily. Okay, I was on Good Morning America. You had George come in who I did? Didn't I I did you a salad. there. Didn't. I did me such a solid because I just adore him and I always have. And he came in and he's like, Oh, we're both friends with Harlan and I'm like, yeah, we're two of us, three friends and whatever that. He said, Sure Harland knows a lot of people, and I said, yes, Harland doesn't know a lot of people, but he has three friends and we're two of them. and Michael Jas thought were really getting raked over the coals. Those are three really less emily Gifton and a person will be named later who cooks gonna be one of us. But yeah, you know it. First of all, it's such a it was. It was fun to emily and I had such a good time on the today show, and Patty knows that. Howdy for those do now. I recommended on one of those appearances. I do it today's show, Patty Callahan, Henry, so, and you did marry K too, that we're so honored. We've done them all. Yeah, so I've just right. So I've done like two or four. So it's actually one of my great joys doing that, you know, being able to what are your great joys to call me and say who do I recommend? That's right, Hamil Patty, Patty, Patty, what to say. And Emily was as a young child sitting on my father's lap. You read me the words him different. That was a big influence on me, you know, as a young child, bousting on my friends and fiction. Absolutely, yeah, and slatter can drop the F bomb. You can, you can flip. She did. I love how in case says that, though, is I do. Yeah, friend, like Steel Magnolia, she can gonna say anything and it just kind of just goes. I think she find it goes forget it. How you would be like fair, it's so bad. Kate Quinn's about to come on and she she wrote in our chat. The writer friends are those whose job it is to beat the content out of you with great content whacking stick. That's right. Love that. Okay, you two. Thank you so much. Right, are such an inspiration and I'm so proud of your books and Y'all are awesome. Thanks, guys. Thanks for coming. Okay, everyone, you realized you missed a lot of our hundred plus shows. Well, you can find all of our back episodes on Youtube. We are live there every week, just like facebook, and if you subscribe you won't miss the thing. Be Sure to come back next week, same time, same place, as we welcome Julie Clark with her newest the lies I tell, and Erica fair and chick with girl in ice, and my little sister, my actual real life sister, Karen Cleveland, will be here talking about the new neighbor, which is her upcoming novel. In the aftershow and we will have special guest hosts, and I'm not telling you who, so you're just going to have to be here to find out. Yeah, OK, and make sure to stay for these ups you need to talk. Stay for the afterwards show tonight with our friend Kate Quinn. Good night, y'all. Okay, so that was amazing. Yeah, gone on for hours. Yeah, I want another hour. We had so much to talk about. Yeah, there's so much fun. They are. Okay, everyone, welcome to the afterwards show. All my goodness, I feel like I wanted to take notes, but I didn't want to look away either. It was both their books are so interesting. So there are. You're such good writers, I know. All right, let's welcome our friend Kate Quinn. I know she needs no introduction, but I'm going to tell you a little bit about her anyway. Kate Quinn is the New York Times and USA Today best selling author of historical fiction like the Alice Network, which was chosen as a reese witherspoon pick, the UNTERRESS,...

...the Rose Code and now the diamond dive. And native of Southern California, she attended Boston University, where she earned a bachelor's and master's degree in classical voice. She's written four novels in the empress of Rome Saga and two books in the Italian on the time redaissance, before turning to the twenty century. Okay and her husband now live in Seattle, but called San Diego home with three rescue dogs, and we are so thrilled she's joining us to night. Her books are some of the most talked about on our page. Song. Can You bring in Kate Sing ladies, so lovely to be here with you guys. You always cracking up and cracking up in the green room bats virtually for the last twenty minutes. Did you need the MM's we left you and the Champagne? Absolutely Green Room. Welcome, my friend. It is so good to see you again. I want to kind of reach in and give you a hug. Yes, so we hugs, virtual hugs. Do you remember that great question you asked me when we were in Naples, Florida together? So I'm turning the tables on you. I want you to tell everyone out there what the diamond eyes about and then with the diamond I is really about. Yes, this was a fun, fun question I had at asking Patty on the hotel room in Naples where we were in an event, and it's came out of twitter, as so many good things do, and where someone said, you know, what's your book about, but what is it really about? And so I thought that was a great way to really get to the heart of what any book really is. And so I can say for the Diamond Ie, you know, yes, it is a World War Two story about the single, mom and quiet librarians who became the most successful female sniper and recorded history. That's what it's about. What it's really about, though, I think you can stay safely. It is about how women embrace and swallow an ungodly amount of rage and an UNGOT equally a godly amount of perfectionism to embrace, to embrace professionalist success at a dazzling level while also crippling themselves in terms of mental health and emotional and emotion because they're just trying to juggle too much. Yeah, there are my black I almost feel like you have to repeat that. That was just amazing. It's really well, son, maybe you could just needle point that on s no, not at all. I was think, like, you know, something rude, but beautifully rude. That's needle pointed. You Go for Alice Roosevelt, who, you know, had the famous needle point of cushion. That said, if you don't have anything nice to say about anybody that comes it right here by me. Yeah, I love that. Well, Hey, we all talk about not only how engrossing historical fiction is to read, but also, and your historical fiction in particular, but also how sometime as we write something without realizing how relevant it will be to the time that we're living at. So, as with the diamond, I this woman, Sniper Mila, is a very real woman in history, in history, and she's Ukrainian. So talk to us about this, about how her life and how it felt when the war broke out. And now people can find Ukraine on the map. I mean we all know about it. So what was that like for you? Well, when I was first trying to tell people about this book, I kept hearing things like, you know Kiv, where's that? Is that in Russia? And I'm like no, no, it is not. Okay, but everybody at least now knows Keith is not in Russia, which is a really yes rest here. Yeah, yeah, I did not anticipate this book was going to be quite as own topical as it turned out to be, which I definitely view to a certain amount of dismay and also a certain amount of horror, just because it's terrible to see, if you've been studying the ways in which Ukraine has gone through the ringer, historically speaking, and then to see it play out again in the news. But I have, in a way also been, you know, tremendously. You know, I can't say proud because I'm not Ukrainian, this is not my history, but I am I do feel proud in a way, because it is not surprised me one bit. You know that I have been researching and reading about and writing about the legendary toughness and courage of and patriotism of the Ukrainian people, and especially Ukrainian women and then reading the how that tradition is still being carried on by Modern Day Ukrainian and Cuanti women. That is not surprised me at all and I have, you know, part of it, as you know, part of me has just enjoyed seeing that the world now gets to appreciate that extraordinary bravery. And you know, history does even repeat itself. I mean, not long ago I was reading a Modern Day of CNN article about a Ukrainian woman sniper. They did not have her full face, only her eyes, which were very fierce, and they did not have her name, only her call sign or her her military nickname, which was charcoal. Well learning...

...and very fierce as well. And I looked at this picture of this incredibly fierce, ide young woman with her bundled up sniper rifle who is fighting right now on the frontlines, and I thought, somewhere, Milapubljenko is nodding in approval. Yeah, that's so true. You know, Ka, I think that those of US writing about World War Two, and just because of the number of books that have come out in that sort of subgenre, have to work extra hard to find stories that feel completely fresh and with the diamond. I. I mean you have absolutely done that. In fact, it seems like throughout your historical fiction career you've always been just a step ahead of the curve. I mean you're finding these stories that feel unique and fresh. Can you talk a little bit about how you find these stories that somehow both appeals so rodly but at the same time don't feel at the time like an obvious choice? I mean because truly you never seem to have a mess. You just have that absolute perfect combination. I think. Well, thank you. I do tend to think. You know, it is such a crowded genre now and it is a very crowded field and you know, this is just and I want to say for anybody who's a new writer who's, you know, thinking you know what you're what you want to write and maybe hearing that you can't sell it right now because it's not World War II. Fifteen years ago you couldn't sell a World War Two book to Save Your Life. So that just shows you the way trends come and go. But right now it is a very crowded field and what I tend to look for is something that I have not seen a million books about, something that is a little bit, you know, obscure, at least to me, and something that has something fresh to offer, whether it's a different part of the arena. You know, I hadn't read too much that it was about the eastern front, and so that was, you know, an area I felt that I could explore without sort of stepping on anybody else's dress too much in the modern in the field of modern war fiction, or sometimes it is, you know, a person that you know who's might whose name might be a little bit lost to history. So I look for, over all, though, that I try to find those women in history who have done something truly astounding and brave and the ones who's, you know, whose feats and exploits leave my jaw on the floor. And that's the first thing I look for, before I even look for a specific era or a specific country or a specific time or place, is I want to find the woman before I find anything else, because once I found her or you know, sometimes it's a one woman, sometimes it's a group of women, once I found them, that's when I have my hook. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. Yeah, I love how you sort of claw out this place and historic fiction for women, because there wasn't an and these are not passive women who were like rolling bandages and fixing, you know, lunches. These women are on the front, they're doing stuff. Yeah, and I think that's what makes your books so compelling. I can tell you, kate, I was listening to the audiobook of the Alice network and I had to pull off. I was on book tour. I think I had to pull off the road because my heart was in my throat. That's I'm really glad you did, because I do not want to have as part of my, you know, my bio intro for this kind of thing, that you know the author who crashed, Mary K Andrews, that that would know. Absolutely not. I just think you have such a gift for for and I think of it as clawing out that place in in in the genre, yeah, the space that belongs to your incredibly brave, crazy ears yours. Yeah, characters, but I'm not supposed to be asking you that. I do have a question. You know, I followed you on social media and I know I and I love the Overseas Gladiator Pot Huh, and the dog you have, like a three like a dog, and that right, I do. And he's curled up very cutely on the bean bag chair that my motherin law got for my husband for his birthday, and the dogs immediately said thank you so much, we love them. You're never going to ever have a chance to send in it. Okay, so I follow you, besides the overseas gladiator and the three like a dog. I know that you wrote a lot during lockdown. Now are where you have a member of that crazy five am club or no, occasionally dipped my toe and those waters when I have been truly desperate on deadline, but in general...

I am the kind of person if I see dawn, I'm seeing it from the other side. Stayed up all night. I am not a natural morning person and I really tend to believe, you know, varies firmly that in order for you know, an hour like four am, five am to be seen by me, there had better or you really by anybody, mean there are. It's like a plane or a book. Deadline just doesn't cut it. There need to be like serious and memorable levels of debauchery involved, hopefully with like Tom Middleston and a drappie. You know, just do it. Okay, tell me how you do the research about on these these books are pretty far flung. So how, especially during lockdown, how do you do that research? Well, for any book, I try to do as much as I can. I try to do as much as I can that is, you know, feels hands on and has the has as much of the original source documents as I can. For the diamond I I was very lucky. My heroine in her later years wrote a memoir and she her memoir is very, very specific about her war experiences and you know the details about the weapons she used, you know the flora and fauna of you know the environments she was in. Flora and fauna is our bane, isn't it? Anybody else known those things about like x we birds native to this area, and what is it nesting yet give that kind of thing. So she's very specific about that stuff, which was great, and this was her real words. So that was that really was great for me as a source, since this was my two twenty book, though, I couldn't travel anywhere and that meant, you know, everything had to be clean, gleaned from online, from war diaries, from her memoir, from old map spntage photographs, really anything I could manage to make get that done, which meant that there was a certain climactic scene. No spoilers for those watching. There's a climactic scene where there's a sort of a duel that's being fought in a Washington DC park and I could not go to visit that park because, you know, it's like two thousand and twenty. Nobody's vaccinated yet, nobody is like anywhere. So there I am plotting a sniper duel on Google ears. Yeah, I not want to do again. And you know, I like I'm sitting there trying to get this done with, you know, my climactic chapter done with, you know, like Google Earth and a guide book, part in a park and guide book, and you it's like, you know, you know how we all get mad at those, you know cook those food blogs where they give you their life story before they give you the recipe. Yes, I was sitting there like snarling my way through this guy about, you know, the National Parks of Washington C DC, just saying, will you please stop telling me about how, like you got over your midlife crisis, mid like divorce, with your intense spiritual connection to Rock Rock Creek Park, and will you please just tell me if the creek steep and up to think a body in and the body singing. Now, guide bug fair, I think. I don't tell you that in the great, you know, the guide book to Great Net of National Parks of Washington DC, they do want to place. So so weird, so strange. You know. I have one more question. I'm not also not supposed to ask, but I don't care. Anything. You want all my well, ever you want. It's our show. So your husband's in the military. Am I correct? Yes, he's active duty Navy. Okay. So does that play any part in your interest in fiction? Like, does me ever say? No, no, honey, that would never happen. Oh, sure, like he reads all my stuff and will you know sometimes, like tell me you know. Yeah, I think you could tune the reaction that way a little bit. And one of the things that I think it has definitely inspired in me. And he's hovering on the other side of here. Wonder if he can poke his head in. yesator, we like all that. EATOR. Hello, I do think it has no fun to meet you the I do think you know, having, you know, been a military wife now for a long time. It's I it has launched in me and maybe I had it anyway interest in, you know, essentially sort of like the warrior type, you know, the sort of person who you know how do you deal with, you know, combat, how do you deal with the aftermath of combat? How do you deal with the ordinary hazards of military life? And the thing that I find interesting about it is that it doesn't really matter if it is, you know, first century Roman, you're talking about the legions, or whether you are talking about World War Two and you know the Red Army. Yes, there are a lot of differences, obviously, but there are some things that are universal to the military experience, like the fact that there is combat stress, the fact that you know that there is, you know, the friendships...

...between military personnel. You form bonds between people like, I will say like legitimately. The bonds that you form in the and the military very often are, in a lot of ways, much deeper and stronger. And I'll then you'll have between between two houses, because you face certain things together that, for frankly, unless you've actually been there and on that, it's virtually impossible to actually explain what it's like to like be in a position under fire or to like help somebody else try to save someone's life or to take a life. And I mean I've done all the above and it is one of those things that, truth be told you, you never really know how to explain it. And and that small group of people who have done it, you know, they're like the bonds that you formed will legitimately last forever. I mean, like I people that I'm still best for for a friends with. I know, sixteen years after I have met the that we only serve take out for two months. It's musing, but it's what you do in that time that kind of defindes the basis of that relationship. Yeah. So, so for a lot of the the the military aspects of what I okay, I write about, I did to to kind of like read through every like now we really wouldn't say this. This is really like how, Oh my God, lucky, Kate sexpert. I'm very lucky. I think it shows through, especially when Melas in the trenches. Yeah, that was a lot of a lot of combat stuff to do and he helped put that and then Mila herself was really quite honest about what the experience was like. So you know, it's like with all that. So, yeah, well, everybody is writing in the comments, gladiator, that you're thank you for your service, thank you for everything. So they're so happy to have met you. That is cool, quite welcome, awesome. Go maybe. Okay, Kate, you intimated in the Green Room that you had a good writing tip, so we're just going to add that on, even though we're running a little late, because I'm dying to know your writing tip. Well, I did have a good writing tip, and Emily Giffen and Harlan Kobe and totally Scott what I typically say to people, which is, you know, embrace the suck, embrace the fact that your costract is going to be terrible. Just get it out there, because you can snore. Robert says you can fix a bad page, but you can't fix flight page. Yeah, Um to. These are things I always tell new writers. But the other thing I would say, so in case you have already heard, that since you of course set in on emily in Harland's part of the show, find your tribe. You have to have your tribe, because this is, yeah, weird and solitary profession and it is really wonderful to have those people who are just like you in the sense that you may not share any other demographic between you. Like I have had writer friends who are part of my tribe where we share nothing else. Like we're not in the same generation, we're not in the same did the same part of the country. We've had vastly different backgrounds. But we all know what it's like to geek out over ancient maps. We all know what it's like to be sneezing about that, to star review that said your book was derivative and didn't spell derivative right, and we all know what clue you know that that particularly sick feeling that you get in when you just sent your book in after First Pass Edits and you get wrapped at three am by the conviction that there's a timeline in there in chapter error, in chapter twelve that you didn't fix and you have to get up and go to up. He meant and pause. My stomach just rolled over. Yeah, right. So finding your tribe, that is important, whether you know these people are published or not, whether they're ahead of the journey, publishing journey or the getting journey, or whether they're a little bit behind you or not. The find your people, because you're will keep you saying through this very, very weird dirney however, it run rolls for you. That'Shit Advice. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. You are always like just a shining joy to have on and I'm so glad we got to meet your husband. Yeah, gratulations on all your success and everyone else here. Thank you so much for being a part of friends and fiction and Oh,...

...anytime. I love you, ladies. I will always be back any time you need to slot. and Um, I won't do the thing that I did last time, where I forgot to make the conclusion for eastern dust from time and I missed my slot. So, because I'm still well about that, doing the shame spiral, we're so had better about myself, because I do that. I was like, I'm so glad we had a show about emily and Harland are such good friends. Right, and then kate finished us off with this wonderful tip about friendship. I think it was meant to be. I came like friendship show, and that's such as a book time. Think you, guys, next year, next week, Oh God, right here, same time, same place. We have two big surprise guest host so you have to show up to see who they are. And y'all have a fantastic week. Thank you, Kate. Thanks, I see you. Thank you for tuning in. You can join us every week on facebook or Youtube, where our live show airs on Wednesday nights at seven PM eastern time. Also subscribe to our podcast and follow us on instagram. We're so glad you're here.

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