Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 9 months ago

Friends & Fiction with Fiona Davis, Marie Benedict & Brenda Janowitz

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode we are so lucky to have THREE authors joining us! For the main event we sit down with both Marie Benedict and Fiona Davis!Marie is the New York Times bestselling author of nine historical novels (including The Personal Librarian, The Only Woman in the Room, and The Mystery of Mrs. Christie). She found her calling unearthing the hidden stories of the most complex and fascinating women of history and introducing them to readers so we can reflect on their contributions and the insights they bring to modern day issues. She joins us to discuss her latest book, HER HIDDEN GENIUS, which reveals the story of Rosalind Franklin, the woman who changed the world with her discovery of the double helix DNA structure for which three men took the credit.Fiona Davis, the New York Times bestselling author of The Lions of Fifth Avenue, returns to F&F to discuss her tantalizing new novel about the secrets, betrayal, and murder within one of New York City's most impressive Gilded Age mansions. Every one of Fiona’s six historical novels (including The Dollhouse, The Address, and The Chelsea Girls), are set in a different iconic New York City building. She joins us to discuss her new instant New York Times bestseller, THE MAGNOLIA PALACE, which has not only met with rave reviews, but is a Book of the Month Club pick.Stick around for the after show when we're joined by Brenda Janowitz whose new novel THE LIZ TAYLOR RING was just released on Feb 1st. Named a Katie Couric Must Read Book for 2022 and one of PopSugar’s Most Anticipated books of the year, Brenda’s seventh novel is an immersive work of historical fiction about three siblings, a priceless family ring, and one legendary love story.

Welcome to friends and fiction for New York Times best selling authors endless stories. Novelists Mary Kate Andrews, Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callaghan Henry are for longtime friends with more than seventy published books between them. Together they host friends and fiction with author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing to highlight and support independent book stores. They discussed the books they've written, the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hello, everyone, it's Wednesday night, or, for our friend that I just saw watching from Australia, eleven am in the morning. I'll have a lot of right. There's morning, yeah, but that reason the future or no, but that means it's time for friends and fiction. It's our favorite hour on the Internet and we are so excited to welcome Marie Benedict and Fiona Davis. I'm Christy Woodson Harvey, I'm Patti Catahan Henry, I'm Christin Harmel, and this is friends and fiction for New York Times best selling authors and less stories to support independent bookstores, authors and libraries. Tonight we're so excited to be talking with three of our favorite authors, Marie and Fiona, and now and then don't miss our after show with Brenda Janowitz. And we have shared with you before that Mary Kay's daughter is sick and so she is where she needs to be with her family tonight. So please join us and sending Mary Kay, her daughter Katie and their family all our love and prayers as they navigate this territory. And, as you know, we continue to encourage you to support independent booksellers when and where you can, and one way to do that is to visit our own friends and fiction book shop Dot Org Page, where you can find Marie's books and feed on his books and our books and Brandon's book and all the books of all our guests that we've ever had. And a portion of each sale through the friends and fiction shop goes to support independent bookstores and it also helps to support this show. In fact, and it's first two years, Bookshop Dot Org has donated twenty one million dollars to support in these amazing wow, incredible. And don't forget that our spring box is now available for order from our friends at Oxford Exchange. If you order now, you will receive my the Wedding Vale in March, Mary Kay's the homewkers in May, and a special friends and fiction notebook complete with sticky flags for marking all your favorite pages. Plus, Mary Kay and I are throwing in a little special treat to go with each one of our books that we can't wait for you to see. I'm excited, even more excited about this book. Surprise. Those are good right. Ries is exactly all right, but meeting the deal? Yeah, yeah, I know, I love it all right. So all of you out there might remember we're in the second month of our very first friends and fiction reading challenge. So don't forget. You can keep track of what you're reading with our beautiful reading journal designed by US IN CONJUNCTION WITH INDEPENDENT Bookstore Oxford Exchange. And there's a great little picture of the Journal. It has this gorgeous, as you can see, friends and fiction blue linen cover and plenty of space to record your thoughts on what you're reading. So our friend and Nissa Armstrong shared on our facebook page under announcements that this month's prompt is memoir or non fiction. We talked, of course, last week about Alison Pataki's non fiction book, which is fantastic, or memoir and there are just so many wonderful books out there to enjoy. I'm actually re reading the widow Clicko right now for the second one, yeah, which is such a good book. It's about the the the woman who founded v Clicko, the actual vove Click Oh, how about you love her and we don't know anything about her, just but, I mean, but you know, she reads US soliction. We love her and yeah, we don't even think she's actually a phenomenal pioneer in the champagne industry, way before women were doing that sort of thing. So it's just neat. I mean that's the kind of thing you can fall into when you read memoirs or Non Fiction Books, right. So let us know in the facebook group what you're reading to and we're excited to hear all about how you're meeting that reading challenge. Yeah, and I want to talk about Christie's the wedding veil, if you'll just let me talk about it per minute, because it is and fewer than seven weeks and I read it and I'm obsessed and I'm telling you, you do not for any reason want to miss owning assigned first edition copy of this, Christie's first hardcover. So many of you on the page, hundreds, click, click, click, have asked where you can get a first edition sign so in addition to the Oxford Exchange box, Christie will have her...

...very first the wedding veil event on Pub Day, on March twenty nine, at one of our very favorite indies and Jetson book store in Greenville, South Carolina, and they will be taking personalization requests and each signed copy comes with this little vial of Rosebud Tea, and you can find all the Glorious and glittering details on her website. Thank you and kit. Can I just add a I've read it. It's amazing and be for all of you who tuned in like this is a great how I even put it? This isn't in our script. I'm just saying Christy pores her like heart and soul and everything into this show week after week and it's just a nice way to thank her by buying it or pre ordering it or buying it the first week. If this is a show that you enjoy watching. It's just a it's a good deed to do for someone who shows up for us all the time. Yeah, well, I lost all amazing, so why would you? Thank you and so good to me. They both they both blurred dead. I mean, can you imagine if they said no, sure revering the show would thank all part thank you for all that you've done. We've been so supportive and appreciate it's a book to allay. Yes, yeah, Nash by her books at it. Well, let's welcome our guests for the evening. While practicing is a New York City lawyer, Marie Benedict dreamed of a job where she could uncover the hidden historical stories of women, and she discovered it once she tried her hand at writing. Her novels tell the tales of fascinating women from the past. She recently wrote the huge New York Times best seller in the mystery of Mrs Christie, which focuses on the real life disappearance of act the Christie and how it shaped her into the world's most successful novelist. For her first co written novel, Marie Teamed Up With Victoria Christopher Murray for I know, I think almost everyone on our page has read and talked about this book with great love. The personal library and which was a New York Times best seller and a good morning America pick. Her new novel, which is brilliant, y'all, is her hidden genius, which was just released last month and follows the British scientist Rosalind Franklin, who worked to discover the structure of Daytona. Nurse Patti is geeking out and she had her research to take in by James Watson and Francis Crick, which are the names you learned in school but you didn't want that's one's name. So it's an astounding book. Yeah, I can't wait to dig in with her about that tonight. It's going to be so interesting to hear the story behind this story. Now I know. Yeah, our second guest tonight Fiona Davis. In addition to being an additional blurber of Christie's the wedding veil, I believe it has her wonderful quote of the frond like that's amazing. You know, it's I know she had such kind things to say about it. But in addition to that, she is also the New York Times best selling author of six historical fiction novels set in iconic New York City buildings, including the dollhouse, the address and the Lions of Fifth Avenue, which was a Good Morning America Book Club Pick. Her novels have been translated into over a dozen languages and her articles have appeared in publications ranging from the Wall Street Journal to owe, the Oprah magazine. Honest say what Oh is? I'm thinking that is truely not what. I'm just gonna Launch a magazine called K. Well, maybe, Ben Gather, we need another project dating the key. Pi Piana is based in New York City. Although she first came to New York as an actress, Ben fell in love with writing after getting a Master's degree at Columbia Journalism School. Her new novel, the Magnolia Palace, was just released last month and follows the secrets, betrayal and murder with and a within one of New York City's Guilded Age Mansions. And let me tell you, I could not put this one down. It was absolutely both of these books are just terrific and we're so lucky to have these amazing guests. So, Shaan, will you bring them on? Hi, welcome, Lady, Oh my God, most laughing backstea. Right, we're so wait with us. We're const you but definitely with you. Okay, good, good, weazing. That's yeah, I'm gonna be Great, guys, I me too. You, guys, we have two our first to subscribers, subscriptions. You need to get going. That's right.

Well, welcome to our first two subscribers, millions. We are so glad to have you here and, as I said, we loved both of these beautiful novels about the most fascinating women and we're so excited to talk to you about them. So that before we get started, or I guess to get started, could you tell us a little bit about your beautiful name of books, Marie. Do you want to start us out? Sure. Well, you know, P Aka Patty kind of butts. Gonna call her P from them. All right. Well, I have had a lot of nicknames and I don't want that one. Really, party Patty the best. That's the one was taken any party men them. That's a choice. Okay now, yeah, yeah, it isn't that good. On too much more somber topic. Um, for Rosslyn Franklin, the heroine of my new book, or genius, is, as Patty said, this brilliant chemist who becomes with through her diligent efforts uncovers the double helix structure of DNA, but without her permission and without her knowledge, her colleague, Morris Wilkins, with who is very, very jealous of the work that she's doing, shares her work with two gentlemen who you probably do know, Francis Crick and James Watson, and within six weeks of getting their hands on her research that took her years to do, they created a model of DNA and wrote a paper for which they won the Nobel Prize. Unbelievably suspenseful. Even though it's about science, it's a story about love and loss and, most of all, about this incredible woman who we should all now because she really is responsible for modern day genetics and and many ways, and most people don't know her name. Incredible, incredible Fianna. How about you? Can you tell us about Magnolia Palace? He in a shirt. So the Magnolia Palace is set at the Frick collection, which is a gorgeous museum in New York City that was the home of Henry Clay Frick and his family. I love that we have a frick in a crick. I love that if you say you know what those wrong, we get leaped out. Oh No, all right, so is. So I I set my books in two time lines, and so in one thousand ninehundred and nineteen it's from the point of view of an very celebrated artists model named Lillian, who gets caught up in a scandal and to kind of hide out she takes a job working incognito, is the private secretary to Helen Frick, who's a very prickly temperamental woman and the adult daughter of Henry Frick, who was a industrialist and an art collector, and she gets very caught up in the family drama. There's romantic trists, betrayal, a stolen pink diamond known as the Magnolia diamond, and and and, you know, lots of crazy plot twists. And then in one thousand nine hundred and sixty six it's from the point of view of a fashion model named Veronica and she's come to the frick, what's now the museum, to do a folk photoshoot and that goes terribly wrong and she gets stuck inside during a threeday blizzard along with an intern named Joshua, and she stumbles upon a series of hidden messages that are hidden within the artwork on the walls and that leads her in Joshua on the scavenger hunt and that she hopes might solve all of her financial problems as well as possibly solve a murder that happened in the frick household decades earlier. So good, so good description. Okay, so both of you, I know firsthand what it's like to become so invested in, maybe infatuated with, the woman's life that you feel compelled to tell their story. Whether someone says that's a great idea or not, you have to tell this woman's story. And for me, the idea to write about Dy David meant struck years before I actually set down to write the story. So you both took on the task of portraying real life women, Fiona in Helen Frick and Marie Rosalind Franklin. Can you tell us, or talk to us a bit about what was the first spark for this story? What was the first spark that made you say I want to write about her? Where you want to start us off? Um, well, I keep this this like crazy long list of historical women that I want to write about. I mean, wow, like my like Santa Claus List. You know and I think to work my way through them all one day. But Rosalind was on it for a long time. She's been on it for years. She kind of always sort of hovered around the periphery of my sort of potential women I wanted to write about, but I...

...wasn't sure about the real depth of her story. Right. I knew that she was a scientist her she had been overshadowed or marginalized in some ways in terms of the DNA discovery, but in terms of her life, I wasn't sure. And a very dear friend of mine, who is an ear doctor and she's really a hero in her own right. She led the Red Cross efforts during nine hundred and eleven. She was a first responder, read this book called the gene, which is non fiction, and there's a section on Rosalind and she called me and she said, okay, I don't know what is on your plate next, but you have to write about Rosalind Brank. Then I'm like, I don't know. You know, she's I'm not sure her life is suspenseful or interesting enough, and she's like, Oh, it is. She said she made the ultimate sacrifice for her discoveries and she said she did so much. After she discovered DNA. She made these unbelievable discoveries which are really the foundational work for RNA and viruses and all this other stuff. This is before Covid, and so I dug in and I found out that her life was actually hugely interesting and her legacy much faster than I could have ever imagined. But it wasn't until I was actually writing it during covid that I realized that so much of the under our understanding of covid and our creation of the viruses, which has been really a very much a female scientist led effort across companies and universities, a lot of Rosalind's work is foundational to that, and I mean the sort of the time he came together and I was so thankful I had listened to my friend, because if I hadn't, she might have still been on that list and I wouldn't have been able to celebrate her in the really, I think, really timely way. That's the right time. Yeah, I'll never remember when I saw it and I told you that I had briefly, for two seconds, met Jennifer Downda, who is responsible for, you know, working on Rosalind's work and then taking it even further for splicing and I can geek out on it. I just think it's amazing. I'm so glad you decided to write back. It's all right. Everything out. What was your first real spark for this? I started looking into the Frick family and basically they lived in this huge mansion on Fifth Avenue, enormous. There's a bowling alley in the basement, that's how big it is. And and it was a family of three served by a staff of twenty seven. Oh, they live there and they lived out from one thousand nine hundred and fourteen on. And you know, you think, Oh, this this daughter, Helen, she must have been very coddled and and that kind of thing and spoiled. But she she was an interesting woman and she had so much depth and so many contradictions, and I think that's what drew me to her. You know, she was her father's confidant. They're very they were very, very close in terms of the art collecting and and that kind of thing, but she was also pretty prickly and they had a tough, difficult relationship, I'd say, and so things like you know, she hated anyone with a German last name, she wouldn't let them on her property or, you know, work anywhere near her. She if any of her friends got a Bob Haircut, which of course was very big in the S, she would unfriend them. And because she wore a pompadour in a bun most of her entire adult life, she just was, you know, she was a really kind of dug in woman. But at the same time, in World War One, during one thousand nine hundred and seventeen, at the worst of the war, she created a Red Cross unit and took it to France to help refugees and that was an incredibly brave thing to do and when she came back she was really almost traumatized by to the point where her father talked about how when she went through grand central she had to walk along the perimeter. She couldn't walk through the grand concourse. It was to expose and I think that kind of thing really affected her. And then she went on to create the Frick Art Reference Library, which is, you know, right next door to the freak and this celebrated top of the Line Art Reference Library, the best in the world, and that's where she put a passion. She didn't have kids, she didn't get married and she's she's just this interesting woman who is not necessarily likable, but I kind of like that about her. Yeah, when I when I talk about Joy Davidman and people say I didn't like her very much, like I don't. It doesn't matter. You don't have to. What she was was complicated and interesting, just like you're a woman's so interesting is better than likable and bored. And I found so many readers reach out to me and tell me that she's their favorite character because she just is unapologetically herself. She has that like piece of her that we all kind of secretly wish we had. You know where you're just like I don't care, I'm going to say exactly what I think about this and...

...like how freeing that must be, and especially at a time in history where that wasn't the norma you know it. I mean, yeah, that's that's incredibly you are not supposed to stand in your own power and say I want this, I like that. Just wasn't. Sorry. Helen on my list because helling Rick, she's on my list. I spent a huge amount of time. She's from Pittsburgh and she lived in Pittsburgh until she was a teenager and the House that she lived in is now like a house museum in a very small scale compared to the first collection. And when I was writing Carnegie's mate, I spent a huge amount of time in her personal papers and she's half at the very end of her life. That's where she died and I met with and spent a lot of time with the people who were her caretakers at that time. All this crazy stuff about her, and she was on my list because I thought what an unusual, striking, complicated woman who really carved her own path at a time when that was just simply not done right. I mean her supposed to me to get married and, you know, establish another mansion in Newport or something right, but she did different. He's amazing. I love her. I love this cross over because it's so interesting, because I actually think we both interviewed Colin Bailey yes because he's the director of the Morgan and he used to be curator at the Frick. So much crossover. It's kind of wonderful. It's awesome because one of my favorite places and in fact the frick, the fricks, there's a whole scene in personal library and where the fricks by paintings that were once owned by the Morgan and then they become that beautiful room at the frick which, if you haven't seen, you have to go see. I mean it's stunning. Oh my God, I love these points in this tie. And this is all right. No, we knew. We knew that. I mean, yes, that's just deliberate. We're we're geniuses. That's why our magazine is going to fly off the shelves to see, because this is our hidden genius. We invited you here to tell you that up. Yes, so, you know, as you were both talking about these women at the center of your novels, I was thinking about how, how you both do so much, not just with these books but with other books, to to bring these these complicated women, specifically women from the past who were not necessarily recognized for their contributions to society, to bring them back to the forefront. So, Marie, of course, in the case of Rosalind Franklin, you know her DNA research was groundbreaking. Fiona, in your case, your Fictional Angelica, I believe, was based on the model whose figure was the inspiration for some of the most famous statues that still kind of, you know, wow us today. But who? But you know, you never hear her name. That's something that's not common knowledge. So you too, you know, you've both been kind enough to blow my books. I know you completely. You know that. I also know how important it is to bring these these forgotten pieces of the past back to the forefront, and I think that's such an interesting thing, both in writing stories like that and in reading stories like that. So, at the end of my long question, sorry, I'm going off on a tangent. I was wondering, do you think that you and just going to be a question to both of you. Do you think that you feel a special calling to make sure that these women are remembered in history, or do you think that that recognition that they now get in your books is sort of a byproduct of a story too good to pass up, you know, as a story that's just demanding to be told? So kind of what's the impetus it is it? Is it wanting to tell these women stories and restore their place, or is it they were so fascinating their stories or interesting? If Fianna, how about you? Yeah, it's such a good question. As I'm doing my research I always in every book have come across the woman who's really been lost to history, possibly overshadowed by men, the way that Angelica or Lilian in the book that's herr kind of stage name, but her real name was Audrey Munson and she was this incredible artists news and her sculptors statues can be found all over New York City and you know she went on to leave this incredible life, but then in the end, and this is different from the book, which is why I re named her, she ended up in an asylum where she died in one thousand nine hundred and ninety six, at the age of one hundred and four. Wow, it's so shocking that we don't know her name, that we walk by statues that Columbus Circle in front of the Plaza Hotel, the New York Public Library, the Brooklyn Museum,...

...she's everywhere in New York and we know the School of names, but we don't know her name. And and I think what happens is I find these women and the reason I found her was that her figure is carved into the pediment above the entrance to the frick and that's where I first heard of audrey months, and that's the connection to the building. And whenever I've read something like that I think, okay, I want to shout this from the rooftops. How do people not know this, this woman? For example, in the masterpiece there's an illustrator who with character is based on who existed in real life, and I read her story and thought, why don't we know her name? Yes, and so many of these women end up having really hard times because they're they're just not, you know, considered important. And so I think by writing this story and shouting it to the rooftops, you know audrey months and go look who she is, go check her out and and drawing people to her, it kind of fulfills that need to share it with everybody. Yeah, absolutely. How about you, Murray? Oh, absolutely. I mean it's it's a combination of the two. But I really am very mission driven. I you know, I really feel this very specific mission to to honor these women, to bring them out, you know, really from the detritus of the past where they've been hidden or buried by somebody, the case, and and really shine the light on them. But you know, I'm looking for for specific things in the woman, you know, I'm looking for a woman who's legacy is very tangible, something we can really get our hands room, which is, I think, kind of why I end up writing about a scientist a lot, because their legacies are so clear and so we can see the way that they're that their work has played out over time. And I'm also looking for women who are really grappling with modern day issues, whether it's, you know, the marginalization of scientists or, you know, work life balance or the way in which women can or can't use their political voices. But at the end of the day, you know, even though I'm very mission driven in terms of who makes it on my list, whether they meet the rubric or not, I think that it has to be a good story. You know, I think Franklin is is a really clear case and point. You know, she was on my list. I knew she had all the right elements. She met the rubric, but was her story going to be telling enough? Was it going to draw people? And because it doesn't it it's it's lost the purpose. The purpose of what I'm doing these to really bring them to life, to have give them that second chance of life that they didn't have the first time around. And and so with Ross and I wasn't sure, but when I dug into it and I saw this sometimes prickly brilliant, off putting but could also be super charming and loving, was a woman who'd had love affairs and wonderful family life and was so much more than the one dimensional scientists that she'd been made out to be, budging them. So, you know, and to me also, that sort of idea of how a woman becomes an icon or not, it's very much a part of the pross to the book as well and it was an idea I wanted to explore. So for me it's really a combination of things, but very, very mission driven to start. That completely makes sense. It's you know, and and all five of us here have, I think, been writing for years. We've been doing this for a while. Do you think we're at a at a moment in history where where the doors are opening for us to be able to do that? I mean, I think that's that's what it feels like to me that these stories that maybe even ten years ago wouldn't have been received in the same way. I don't know, we're just sort of it a special moment in time. We would you agree with that? Yeah, I definitely would like something like the Queen's Gambit, you know, the success night, where it's woman who no one knew her name and and now it's out there. I think there's an appetite for it, definitely. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I think. I think people are thirsting for those stories, but they didn't even know that they were thirsting for them until they tried them. And now that they they want more of it, you know, they want to look back in the past and see these women where they've been all along, hiding in plain sight, you know. So I think that that really has fueled that along. But but I agree with you too, Christian. I think maybe the appetite wasn't there before. You know, the book that put me on this path is the mists of avalon which I talked about a lot, but which is a retelling of their theory and legend from the point of view of the women, and I read that when I was like in middle school and there was like nothing like that at that time and that book really put me on the path that I'm on today, although to be way too long to figure that out. But that book was like the only one of its kind for so long and I think there's a little bit of that, people thirsting for it and then finding it and then wanting more of it. I hope anyway, because that's what yeah, so sum can UN exactly. That's your mission.

That being yeah, well, Marie Patti's already been super stingy with her praise about how much she loves the science the parts. So here it to us all sipping it out for their praise. But I am also kind of a science nerd and actually did science writing in college and kind of thought that was going to be like, yes, I love science, and so the science nerd in me really love the science parts of her hidden genius and found them so fascinating. But I am just so the whole time I was reading, you know, I guess as writers we just read in a different way. I was thinking, how is she doing this research? Because not only were you having to do this massive amount of scientific research, well, you're having to do a massive amount of scientific research from the s. So it's not like you're going to a scientist and saying, explain to me how you would find this, how it would be uncovered and how it would work, like you are recreating these processes that haven't probably gone on in a while for the most part. So how did you go about finding this information? Wow, that's like how long do you have? Wow, that really on time. I mean, I don't know what I think I'm doing. I'm nobody scientists, you know. I just I go with the women leave, you know, if it's science, I follow them, if it's politics, I go there. If it's, you know, Czechoslovakia or England, I have figured out go on. You know, I think in this particular book I did have to go back and I think what one of the things I was so fortunate is. You know, all of us love that original source material, right, we love the letters and that, the journals, the stuff that's like brings the person to life. And in response to James Watson wrote an absolutely incendiary autobiography about the creation of DNA, you know, in I think was one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, long after all this happened, and her rosalind's really good friend and Sarah, who was married to a microbiologist who was friends with Rosalind, was outraged at her portrayal on there. She was like the stereotypical dark stingy, very difficult scientist who didn't want to help anybody. Right. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't want to be an assistant to you. I Apologize. But anyway, so she got, and Sarah got so incensed by this biography she spent two or three years researching exactly what happened, interviewing everybody, collecting all of Rosalind's documents and she wrote her own biography about what happened, which is awesome. I mean, everybody reading this so be a masterpiece of writing really. But here's the amazing part. She saved everything and gave it to the American Society for Microbiology Library and during covid this most amazing library and copied at all for me. So not only did I have like all these letters, all these family interviews, all these interviews of every single person who is involved in the nineteen STI S and seventy S. well, they were still alive. There's also so much about how the process, how it happened, what her friend really thought of in terms of he said. She said, like what happened with the taking? And so while I did have to kind of go back into scientific history of science books and kind of learn the science from a historical standpoint, and I was fortunate I have a good friend who is a PhD in chemistry from Princeton and helped guide me along the way. I mean she couldn't, you know, really tell me about certain historic things, but she could verify that I was on the right track. So with good research, good people and this amazing sort of treasure trove of information from Annsair, I was able to kind of piece it together and and also really brought Ross wond alive for me, which was an immense gift. That's so cool. Rich. I just ask a quick question that I know I know the answer to having read the book, but I just want to clarify. I'm not a science geek. You don't need to be a science geek to like this book, right it it's the story of a woman, right. It's the story of this woman who just happens to be a scientist. Like that, at least. Either have to go into it loving science. Correct. No, I mean I definitely think that if I can write this book, anyone you can explain it in a way like was. Basically, it was processing all this information and boiling it down in a very understandable fashion for myself. Yes, okay, so, you know, in order to translate it in a book, it had to be accessible to me and in that, given that I'm not a scientist and I'm not a science geek, it was I know that anyone could read it and understand of it. I mean, I think this. I had to learn the science because it's important to the suspense, because there was a race, there was a ring to discover, Danna, absolutely, and you have...

...to understand why certain people won and how certainly lost, and what happened. Absolutely. So that's that's the part that you really that's the only reason you really need to know that part of it, and I think she has such a rich, complicated life to it, just beyond all of that and her personal story, but I think also, you know, highlighting kind of that race part of it. You're feeling her. It's something. It's like a universal feeling and like the kind of the Times that she's putting herself in positions that are damaging to herself that she probably should not be doing because she wants it so much, you know, and I think it's something that science are no science, you know, whatever it is. We all kind of felt that feeling they've been trying to get to the finish line, Ye ways, without being run over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. And I think what's even more remarkable in some ways about rosalind as she was doing it for all the right reasons. She wasn't doing it for the race, she wasn't doing it for the noble press, she was doing it for humanity and her you know, that's really such a legacy of her family. They were true altruists and I just in the past week, two weeks, I have become very friendly with her family. In fact, her niece, Rosolas and I have spent a lot of time together and I've been able to it's been unbelievable how warm and welcoming and kind they've been about the book, but also it's giving me so many insights into their family overall and how Rosslyn was so unique in that this was her form of familial altruism and the race wasn't the same kind of race for her as it was a for other people. Okay, Fiona, we know that you have made a really fabulous and completely fascinating career by finding notable New York City buildings and then telling their stories through the people. Your buildings don't talk to us. Well, that's to do. I am also someone who believes that every place bace and the treasures inside of it tell us stories. So the idea of using not only the frick, which is a favorite museum in New York, but also the incredible works of art inside to tell a story is so fascinating. So I have kind of a double edged question. Why the Frick, which could be fikes me laugh. Why The fun do that? Why and how did you do the incredibly detailed research about the paintings? I want to hear a lot about this. Yeah, yeah, I'll Freakin tell you to do it. You know, I love the frick. I think if you ask any New Yorker what's their favorite building, their favorite museum, they tend to say the frick. And it's not like the met or the Cook and him, which are these huge, you know, Monster Museums. It's smaller, it's three stories, you know, it's set back from Fifth Avenue and the reason I was really drawn to it was the fact that it was a residence and then a museum, and so when you're working into two timelines, that works really well because you can show how the building and the people within it have changed over time and it was wonderful working with them and you know the Frick Organization in terms of the research. You know, it was during lockdown and so I got this amazing behind the scenes tour in January of two thousand and twenty and then New York City lockdown in March. But Luckily on freak dot org they have this incredible floor plan with a three hundred and sixty degree view in every room and so you can just plop right into whatever we need look around. So if I was, you know, working in the library and say, all right, what's the painting above the fireplace, I could go into that and then you click on the painting and it tells you all about it and so and I highly recommend people go check it out because it's such a beautiful everyone was so spectacular. And then, on top of that, you know, I needed to know more about life as the family lived it in the S, and so there they have digital archives that they were able to share with me of, you know, Dinner Party Menus from one nineteen fifteen for a dinner party for thirty and all of the seven courses that were served or the payroll, which is all of the staff, how much they got paid, what their names were, what they did, and that was because, yeah, that that really made it, it manageable, even though it was during two thousand and twenty. And and you know, also they do this amazing thing, cocktails with the curator during covid every Friday at five, where they would have a you know, a ten fifteen minute video of a curator drinking a cocktail and talking about one painting. Wow, and I had commend you to get out to Oh, I don't want to go to that, it's...

...so much fun. They're all online and and so, you know, I could really kind of embed myself in whatever painting I needed to really really do a deep dive about, and it was a matter, with the scavenger hunt, of finding paintings that reflected what the characters were as well. So veronic is a model and she's looking at a painting, and who was that woman who sat for that painting in the eighteen hundreds? What was your story? And and kind of going down that road because I wanted it to be fun. I didn't want to hit people over the head with the art history. You know, I think class art history in college, past fail and I passed. So I thought, Hey, I should write a book about art, not like worry, because you that's like me with science. Yeah, exactly, sure. And so by making it a scavenger hunt and the clues being really bad poetry, you know, which was a lot of love about, is they were. They're all just too horrendous. Three. And so by making kind of fun in that way, I hope it brings the collection to life in a way that, even though you're reading it, you're not looking at it, you feel like you understand what it was all about and what the fricks accomplished. Well, we have got so many questions, just flat. I mean we could ask you questions all night. We have so many questions flying in for you guys from the audience. So, Christian, will you pull a laugh question for us? Mean, yes, we actually have a great one in from any Sparkman, I would. I'm so interested to hear the answer. She wants to know for both of you, how is your writing changed from your first book to your most recent? I wanted to know to because I think, I mean, I've read both of you for a while, so I it's just interesting. had a very do in a start? Sure, Um Gosh, I think I'd have to go back to my like first first book, which I wrote under a different name, still the same themes, other pieces of history. I wrote a few books that were historical suspense and that I did to why a books before I wrote these books, and I feel like my writing is changed so much because I feel like in some ways those books were writing exercises where I was supposed to go. Like the first books, I learned that I didn't love the modernay storylines. What I loved was the historic story lines. And then why a I learned that I love to write in the first person, because you know, those why a books, they love to yeah, we've been very emotional and very real and it was and I knew I was getting closer and closer to really narrowing into just women's histories, but bringing all those things together and telling their stories in the first person from a really intimate standpoint was really, I don't know, kind of it was a path that I had to go through, all of those sort of iterations to get to her supposed to be at. Oh yeah, that's so interesting, that completely makes sense. How about you, Fiona? Yeah, you know because I write in two timelines and there's an element of mystery that drives the story forward and plot twist. I've always really outlined each timeline very carefully before I even start that first draft because I need a guide post, I need to know where I'm going, I need to make sure a plot twist doesn't screw up the story in the other timeline of giving away something too early, and so I've always done that. But I think, as I've done the later books, I'm more open to letting the characters do what they need to do as I'm writing a scene and sometimes they don't behave, they don't follow that outline, and I've learned that that's okay and just to let them go their way and you'll figure it out in the end. And usually when that happens that's the right decision, that's the right way to go. I don't know if you guys have discovered again. One hundred percent. Yes, very good point. Definitely go to leave that room for them to take you where they want to take you. Yeah, okay, there's a great question here from Kerry Soderman and it's actually I'm glad she asked you because I was thinking about it when I was talking to you, Marie, and you might not even know, but has the Nobel Prize Committee ever talked about going back and recognizing, recognizing women whose work was claimed by men? Have they ever talked about Retro Nobel Prizes? Is that even coming up? Um, he definitely has been talked about in general. Now, whether the the Nobel Committee has, he's agreed to do that as a different matter. But what I will say is that at the time I had to learn a little bit about how the novel Process Works, which I didn't know, just to understand why Rosalind did or didn't get it. And they have always maintained she didn't get it because they don't give on, and this is a little bit of a spoiler, but they don't give Nobel's posthumously and they don't give it to more than three people. So that's the way that they describe it away. But if you look at the records of...

...how it was actually decided who would get it in this case, because it was Watson Crick and Rosalind's terrible colleague Morris Wokens, they have a private investigation done of the entire produm during the process in the private investigator said, I don't know why this isn't being given to Rosalind Franklin. It seems to me that she would have been the one to get it rather than more soilkins. So that's like the independent person saying wait is you know. So it's interesting to me that that you know, someone who's really close to all that information right at the time, really knew that she deserved it, and yet these sort of arbitrary rules were set up to to prevent her from getting it. I don't think they'll go back and revisit it because they would have to go back and revisit so yet. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, fannasy were briefly. I have to ask this because it just popped up and I think this is so great. Terry Stafford stokes wants to know if you take your house guests on Personal New York tours of the places that you've written about, and we want to be your house to need be your other question. That's the actual real question. You know, you know, we publish a magazine, Fiona, we don't want to pretty important. Yeah, no, I get it, will do. We'll rent a limo for that one. Good. You between never you know, it's the funniest thing is ever, since I think the second, even the first book, there's a Book Club in Boston called Club read a red and it stands for reading, eating and drinking. You're an amazing bunch and every year they have rented a bus and about thirty of them come down and tour the locations of whatever book that is, and I'll join them lunch and it's just really well, I'm just so impressed with them. I have to give a shout out to club read. It's so you she like sort of side stuffed. Whether if you do, I don't really know. I didn't come on offer. Didn't give us a definite yes, did I right? Well, named the date. Name will be set. We will be so set. I promise we'll. Christy, do you want to ask more live ones or no? I'm sorry. Let's move on to the right tip. Okay, so, Marine Fiana, one of our favorite parts of the night is for us and for the watchers, the viewers, is to ask y'all for a good writing tip. It is always so fascinating to hear, no matter how many authors we talked to, that they have such different perspectives on writing. So where you want to go? First? Um, for me, I think the most important thing has been, throughout this whole process going from a lawyer to becoming a writer, kind of working my way through the books to find really what I think I'm meant to do. It's been following what I'm really passionate about. You know, you always seed the tip right what you know. Well, if that were the case, none of us would be writing anything historical because you know we were there. But I do think writing what you're passionate about, whether you know it or not, right. I think that has always been sort of a guiding post for me. For me it's about circling back to what I was really passionate about when I was, you know, in middle school, Early High School, for society pulled me should be. And I often find that when people are thinking they want to write but they don't know what exactly what to focus on, focusing on who you were then or what you were passionate about at your most sort of early self is an interesting exercise. But I say follow what you're passionate about, not necessarily what you know, otherwise I would definitely not be writing this book. Right. How about you? The AA yeah, you know, I never imagined I would write a book. I thought that was what other people did. There was no way I could imagine writing, you know, a hundred thousand words, and it wasn't until I was in my late forty s I really felt like I had something to say, and this kind of ties in with what Marie's talking about. Wasn't until I've kind of gone out and lived life and suffered and celebrated and done all these things that I had something to say. And so my advice would be don't rush it. Don't feel like if you don't write your book by the time you're thirty, you know it's all over you there. There's plenty of time to get experienced and go out and live and then once you're ready, you'll know it's time and then just weep into it. I've changed careers every ten years and I highly recommend it. That's so like so many of us couldn't write what we write without having lived. No, Yep, Yep, yeah, yeah, that's such a big part of it. Absolutely. Okay, quick question for both of you. I know you're both such you're both so generous about reading work by other authors, by by...

...getting support to those authors. Is there anything quickly you can shout out that's coming down the pipeline in the next couple of months that you've gotten an early glimpse of, that you want to recommend to our viewers out there? Yeah, I'll go first. If you want writing. Yeah, pleased. Yes, yeah, I happen to have it right here because I just finished it. It's the foundling by and leary. Oh, she's Rin family. It's historical fiction and it's based on a true women's asylum that was in America in the S, where they put what they called people minded, women of childbearing age, and it was basically a place where if you didn't like your wife, yeah, could tosser in there and it's an incredible story. It's fictional characters, fictional place, but based on fact, and the ending is one of the best endings I've read in a long time. I can't it comes out in in looks like may thirty one. Awesome, whim excited. Okay, so that's great. Yeah, Um, I just have to say it reminds me of a non fiction that back to your nonfictionless there you go. Yeah, there's a great book by Kate Moore, nonfiction called the women that could not silence, and it's about the historical practice of putting not necessarily feeble minded but objectionable women and asylums, women who would not do what was society expected. Or maybe we're contravention of what their husband wanted or their father, and it's all I'man. I don't know exactly the topic of this book, but it sounds really dovetails that it would be a really interesting non fiction comparison, because this is crazy. Oh my God, I like the title for your next book, Marie, objectionable women. You just said objectionable women and it was like whole you know, I think I'd be a proud objectionable woman. I would like to magazine title actually, but yeah, and nailed it perfect. That is perfect. Brian Fianna, I think it's safe to say you have earned a spot on the board of our new magazine. And then you and if you wouldn't mind sticking around for a few more minutes, we have one additional question for you. But first a few reminders from us. Don't forget about our writers block podcasts. It is every single Friday and it's different than this show. We will only's post links under announcements each time a new one goes out. Last week Ron and Mary K talk with Linda Key trun from the litchfield luncheon series about people who are author allies, and we all know that we wouldn't be here without them. And this week Ron and Christie talked to Robert degoni, and I know y'all are going to freak the brick building out because that book is posted about more times on our page. And they talk about the staying power of stories and we know you will love to listen to this one. He is the author of the extraordinary life of Sam Hill. And don't forget to subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts and why you're hitting those little subscribe buttons. May make sure to subscribe to our newsletter and our youtube channels so you never miss anything. And sometimes, if you want to watch some back episodes, you can go to the new streaming PAP Plat form platform platform called logo plus, which includes lots of brand new content from other and dependent creators like us. Yeah, we love them. We're happy to be beyond their platform. All right. So we tell you this every week. But you, guys, if you have not joined the friends and Fiction Official Book Club. Yet what are you waiting for? Of course, the group is separate from us. Brenda Gardener and Lisa Harrison run the group. They have more than tenzero members. They have amazing behind the scenes book chats, they have special happy hours with Ron Block, just all sorts of amazing things, including a read of the wedding date by Jasmine Gillery, who was our guest I think last summer the summer before. Years are flying by now and but she's coming on in February seventeen to discuss that book and you know she's wonderful, just going to do a just a great job with them. We encourage you to join so the friends and fiction official book club and make sure to join us for our next episode of friends and fiction next Wednesday, right here at seven PM, where we will welcome Jane Allen of the Black Girls must be magic series. Then on February twenty three we host v Schwab and Gr and grim mcallis Ohi issue her new books. G Are we are, Ye are. I was like, is that a type of Gr mcallister hear, and your book was doing for the after show. If you are ever wondering about our scheduule. It is always on the friends of fiction website and on the headergraphic on our facebook page. And so,...

...ladies and before you go, we have one last question for you, and this could be a hard one and all that. Marie kind of mentioned it, so maybe will let her go first. But what is the book that changed you the most as a writer? Well, I did already. I already had a one. Yeah, I would definitely see the miss of Abylon. I mean it's an old book, it's fantasy novel, it's from I don't even know where, but my precious aunt, who really set me on my life's pathway back one, gave it to me at the present and it was just that, that retelling of something so familiar from the perspective of the woman that opened up my eyes to the fact that there were all these women stories and women's perspectives and women's histories out there and they were not being told. And how could we even understand our history with just one perspective? And so it really asked me, that led me down the path. I've asking that question how history is formed. Really to look, in this case, for the women and for the voices that aren't heard. So that book did it for me. I don't think that was the intention of that book, but that was definitely the results of that. So shore, that's yeah. What about you, Fannah? Yeah, I have to say the people of the book by Geraldine Brooks Good and it's about a sacred Jewish text that travels through centuries, and that I think, taught me, you know, how you could leap through time but still tell them who he's of story and one that's full of interesting characters and kind of compare and contrast how people's voices and agency have changed over time and how they haven't, and so that. But that would be it for me. That's sent me on my historical fiction rampage. I love you and so cool. You can see just the community of that into what you didn't you took it, made it. You're very oldings. Yeah, I took a building. It's going to the book. I love that. hasnating. I love that. Well, ladies, you have been such incredible guests. I know everyone in our group loves you guys, and they they always want to hear from you and your new about your new books, and so we are so grateful that you spit your Wednesday night with us. We love the bugs and everyone. If you have not read her hidden genius and the Magnolia Palace, run, don't walk, to get your poppy, or you can order from our book shop, top or store. So, ladies, thank you so much to me if you're joining us, yell are amazing. Thank you, Adore you, we adore you. Thank there you back. Good night. All right, everyone out there, make sure to stay tuned. We have a very special after show that you were not going to want to miss, and we are going to be welcoming the amazing Brenda Janowitz. And don't forget that you can find all of our back episodes on Youtube. We are alive there. I every week, just like we are on facebook, and if you subscribe you won't miss the thing. Let still have access to special short clips and be sure to come back night, sweet, same time, same place as we welcome Jane Allen. Hello, ladies. Well, what a show. Great guess they were. I mean when you started talking about it's time for announcements, that was like no, no, now went high, no way, an hour went by whatever. Well, the good news is it isn't over yet and we are so excited to welcome Brenda Janowitz. She's the author of six novels and her seventh novel, the Liz Taylor Ring, was just released on February. First she is the former books correspondent for pop sugar and her work is also appeared in the New York Times, The Washington Post, real simple USA, today, bustle, Writer's Digest. She's amazing. She attended Cornell University and Hofstra law school. Wait, who is here? Let who is teaches at half lost, half Stra Law schooled? It doesn't out for it's there now. No, no, but thinking of all the ways that, like we could mispronounce that. Yeah, anyway, after graduate. I didn't though. I didn't you doing nail that. I was like yeah, Pattie, good. So after graduation she worked for the law firm K A scholar LLLP and did a federal clerk chip with honorable Maryland Olen go, United States Magistrate Judge for the Eastern District of New York. That's literally the longest title. Are you trying to ask for a long title? When we do our magazine mastheads, I win. That's about the want the word honorable in front of it. She doesn't want just pee. She needs like a long day we honor John. Let's bring in the honorable Brenda. God, that was quite an intro. I like it, very impressive and judge go, would love that. You're...

...so excited me. So much easier to say, judge go. Come on, it's amazing. Friends here here, so exciting. Reda, you and I have knew each other for like five million years, have we not? All East, a day is literally five million. I mean it's I mean we both been care but it's been let's put it this way. When we first met we were both single, running around our various city and now we're both married with kids and mortgages and mortgages. That's the big one. Yeah, we are so happy that you're here tonight. Can you by telling us about the Liz Taylor Ring? I would love to. I even have my copyright here and not me. So the Liszt Tailor Ring is the story of three siblings, their parents, epic love story and the one diamond ring that was thought to be long lost but soon gets discovered, sending the entire family and top people. It's a family drama. It's really about the bonds of siblings, but it's also about the nature family story and sort of how these stories morph as they go through the generations and as different people tell them. So it's has something for everyone, especially people who like big diamonds, which the cover's I mean, and come on. Well, my mom when I was working on it, she likes to get me a little memento for the books. So she she called me and she was like how big was the crop? But she knew that the character in the book, I like to joke, Elizabeth Taylor's Croup diamond was thirty three, one nine carrots, but my character had like a normal humongous diamonds, like for a normal person. So in the book it's an eleven carrot stone. So she went and she got a crop replica. But it's all. It's keep saying. You don't do you have a real I'm like a real love and carrots. Don't know, I don't have no, I have Kendna morgansly me Stn't come rob me. I mean right, yeah, everyone keeps that. You should tell people it's real, and I'm like I will be murdered over this. We're a thirty three where it time like. Well, you know, if you're Elizabeth Tailor, you wear that every day of your life and I like to joke like did she wear it to the supermarket? But Elizabeth Taylor didn't go to the supermarket. She so she worked to talbably find a way to wear it. I mean, I'm setting honest, I would definitely find a way to wear it, but I just like how every day, how do you? I mean you strugg imagine how big that is, the struggle. Would you really getting snagged on things? I think, don't you think? Yeah, when you could never wear gloves? Yeah, gloves around, cloves are okay. I want to talk about this and one of the opening lines of the novel you write more than one thing can be true at once. It's such a poignant, sorry, true thing to say. Sometimes, when I talk about that concept, I'll say doesn't always have to be either or. Sometimes it can be and both. So I want you to talk to us a little bit about how that relates to the story you told. Yeah, you know, whenever I'm working on a book I find I'm learning something about myself and sort of how I interrupt with the world, and I think over the years what I realized. I'm kind of like very black and white about things and it's hard for me to see the shades of gray and, especially through this strange time we're living in, it's important to see the shades of gray and it's important to realize, you know, there's lots of different opinions and lots of different people and you get it like there's shades of gray and you have everything and all that. Yeah, yeah, so when I was working on this, one of the things that was important to me in sort of thinking about this idea of family myths was who's actually right, you know, like as parents, I think a lot of times were like there's this story and this dury and then there's the truth. But I was sort of like, what if everything was true, because I think in life everything sort of is true, and so that was sort of what I was exploring in the idea I was thinking about, and especially when it comes to family lure, right, it's like everything's true. In fact, I'm working on a piece right now for real simple about an heirloom that was passed through my husband's family. So I started writing this story with the knowledge that I had when I was first told the story fourteen years ago, when I first met my husband, and you know, the first time I heard this story. So I wrote it up, but whenever I'm doing an essay that's about my husband or...

...family, you know, not trying to get divorced over a byline. So I always I let him read it, right, my goodness. Yeah, so I had to him read a copy, but I also had my mother in law, Reay, to copy because it's her father's ring that I'm writing about, and they both had very different ideas about what had actually happened and I said, well, I based this on what I was told. The first time I was told the story, and then my mother and low call, she had her own little thing and then my husband had and some of these ideas sort of weren't the same. So I ended up writing the piece just from my perspective because I'm telling the story. This is the story as I was told. Needless to say, I'm sure this has happened to all of you. The word count got cut down so it didn't matter anyway. So telling like a much more pure version of the story. So it was fine. But it was just very interesting that I had been told the story. I'd been told it over the years. Both of Doug Sisters had told me different versions and Doug, that's not right. That's not it was fascinating and that's sort of what I'm exploring in the book, just this idea of how the same people can be telling the same story and they lived it at the same time and it's somewhat different. You know, it's funny that you say that. Out there was something that like kind of interests me to sort of in my family history, and when I started going to like dig into it, I mean, I'm not writing a book about it, but I thought I'd be an interesting basis for about and I went to go dig into it and I caught some one of my family and said, you know, you know, can you send me like these pictures or whatever, and they were like what? Like, what are you talking about? And I was like yeah, you know, remember and you show me. They were like, Oh, yeah, I did show you pictures, but it was of this, not this, and I'm like how can I remember that so incorrectly, lonly, but it's so true, how our memories just like play tricks on us. It's it's very bizarre. It's so undy when narrowing it. Yeah, yeah, but get with each they say, because when I was doing when I was doing my research for the favorite daughter about memory. Each time we narrate a story about ourselves or a family, shifts a little here, a little there, and then that narration becomes something completely new. Yeah, and so it's the same memory that narrated differently. That's sort such a good point. What a fascinating thing to explore, and that would kind of that back to your quote. It can all be true at once. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's so interesting, especially you know it's something like this, like sibling stories and things, where everyone remembers it a little bit differently, and you know how you open the book and it's like all kind of all of these different threads and this is what happened, this is what happened, this is what happened. It's just really interesting to me. But so you mentioned this, but at the heart of this book as what these three siblings at the center of the story describe as their parents, at the love story, and we know there's kind of the the ring connection with Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, but I mean no spotl like don't give anything away, but did you parallel their love story and any other ways in this bug? You know, that's a tricky question when I decided I was going to use the love story of Elizabeth Taylor Richard Burton. I mostly wanted to just use the idea of it right and also when you speak to people, like when I spoke to my mother about it, my aunt, different people who sort of lived in that time when it was happening, they had different ideas about what had happened. So I just wanted this idea of an epic love story that where you couldn't forget about the other person, even if you were no longer with the person, they were just sort of in your life, that you was thinking of that person on their deathbed. That was really the main inspiration. Once I started doing my research, it got more interesting. Once I learned more about their whole love affair, it became more and more fascinating. So what I did was I didn't parallel the relationship, but I took nuggets from here or there and I just sort of infused the book with it. So if you're a Liz Taylor lover and you really know her life story, you'll see a little nuggets. Like I mentioned the yacht before. They famously lived on a yacht at one point in time, which I didn't know, so of course I have my characters go to a party on it. Yet you know, they're just like little things here are there. But you know, the books very much a love letter to Elizabeth Taylor. So some of the parts of the relationship that maybe we're a little rougher I didn't actually want to include. I was definitely very cheosy and since it's not biographical fiction, it's really just fiction that's inspired, I was able to sort of pick and choose the good stuff, or the things that interest me I should say, and then there were certain things in the relationship where I just sort of made it happen in a different way. Yeah, yeah, that absolutely makes sense. You know, friends of one of the things I like so much about you, like just again, having known you for so long and followed your work for years, is that when you you you're so good at reading these essays that take us on a little journey, right, because...

...you know in an essay you only have so much space, but then give us something really to take away, to sink our teeth into and take away at the end. Can you tell us what you want is to take away from this, this sweeping book that's much longer than an essay, but I you always have just this this nugget of wisdom. What's the nugget of wisdom you want us to take from this story? Thank you. You know, I feel like the nugget is just this idea of family story and how it's passed down. Yeah, that's really what I want people talking about when they sort of finish the book. There's there's a lot more, like you said, there's a lot more there and I tackle a lot of other things, but for me the book is really about the nature of story and that's sort of what I was obsessed with when I was writing it and that's what I sort of want to keep talking about and I get really excited when people sort of like mention it, like Jen wine or just did a facebook live and she said that that was her favorite part. Listening with my headphone screaming at my husband, I'm like jen gets it. He's like who are you talking about on my phone? That's the best pot when like someone gets that thing that you were trying to do and it was like subtle, but you're like really hoping that someone gets it. Feel like you need. I know, and I'm sure you guys have all experienced this. Sometimes someone will read their book and they'll explain it to you. They're like interesting about your book and you're like Oh really, oh cool, I is that that thing I spent three years on, that I did research on? Yeah, it happens to be there. So I mean, I think that's the main thing, but I feel like also, if you want to read it just for the love story or things like that, that's fine. If you just like sibling drama, that's fine too. If you'd like to gamble and you want to read some scenes about gambling, that's cool to grandam like all of those things don't feel exactly but you have to like diamonds. You have to like diamonds. At one point when I was working on im well, at one point I was working on this and I posted a picture of Liz tail or with the crop and someone who I won't out her here, but she said that rich just so disgusting. It's so cutemongous, and I was like that's really amazing. Is that we awesome? Yeah, I'M gonna find that post and be like, can you imagine how hard it was? Hard to wear gloves? Imagine what she put one. Yeah, and the struct the struggles of the crop equally to see you. I'm going to file that for your really really coming up with some good titles tonight. Boddy, I'm okay, friend that this is sort of like when you have a baby and it's you're like, you're holding it like this and Ione's like when are you having the next one? So I don't I can tell us anything, but can you give us any little hints about if you're working on something new? I can and also, interestingly enough, when I had my first son I was totally like, I'm having my next Tilbury. Stupid. I never have a problem with that question even in real life. So I'm working. I'm working on novel number eight and it's called the Audrey Hepburna state. Yes, so I'm taking heavy inspiration from the movie Sabrina as a Famili Oh yeah, yeah, so it's going to have a love triangle. But that that movie took place, what was supposed to have taken place Glen Cove, Long Island, and when I was working on the list, tailor bring one of the things you know, a lot of the book takes place on Long Island, where I'm from and where my editors from, and one of her notes early on was we need more Long Island Glamor, and I think she meant it is like a throw a line, but I have not stopped saying Long Island Glamor for like two years now that I run. I'm just obsessed with this idea of like long and Lamor. So, needless to say, the Audrey Hepburna state will have lots of Long Island Glamor because we've got the Glen Cove Setting, which is a very fan see place. You know perfect audrey have burns. So love trying the long glamor. We've got it all. We got it all, friends that we could hard to all night. I hate that we don't have more time, but before we leave you, can you tell all of our viewers out there where they can find you online? Oh my goodness, everywhere, everywhere. My website is just Brenda Januitscom. On instagram I'm Brenda Januits writer. On facebook, just plain old Brenda Januits. Twitter, also plain old brand of Januits. But I'm pretty I'm pretty findable. I feel like I'm everywhere online and commenting and all that good stuff. So if you find me online, give a shout. I'll give a show back. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us, friend, one everyone,...

...don't forget that you can pick up your copy of the Liz Taylor ring and our friends and fiction book shop Dotorg, shop or wherever books are sold. Thank you again for joining us, friend, and thanks to all of you out there for spending your Wednesday with us. We always get seen. I Franks guys, by thank thank you for tuning in. You can join us every week on facebook or Youtube, where our live show airs on Wednesday nights at seven PM eastern time. Also, subscribe to our podcast and follow us on instagram. We're so glad you're here.

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