Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode 0 · 6 months ago

Friends & Fiction with Jane Green

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The Fab Four talk to the ever fabulous Jane Green. The New York Times bestselling author of 21 novels, Jane Green has more than 10-million books in print in over 25 languages and has landed on the NYT bestseller list an incredible 18 times. Jane joins us to discuss her new book, SISTER STARDUST which has been named Parade Most Anticipated Book Of The Year, an Indie Next Pick, and a Library Reads Pick. SISTER STARDUST is Jane’s first foray into biographical fiction which tells the story of Talitha Getty in Marrakech in the late sixties. Listen in as Jane tells us what inspired the novel, about her research process, and how immersing herself in this time period and fascinating story has impacted her creative life in unexpected ways.

Welcome to friends and fiction for New York Times best selling authors endless stories. Novelists Mary Kay Andrews, Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callaghan Henry are for longtime friends with more than seventy published books between them. Together they host friends and fiction with author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing to highlight and support independent book stores. They discussed the books they've written, the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hi, everyone, it is Wednesday night and that means it's time for friends and fiction and we are so happy you are here with US tonight. I am Patty Callahan Henry, I'm Christy Woods and Harvey, I'm Mary Kay Andrews, I'm Kristin Harmel, and this is friends and fiction for New York Times best selling authors endless stories to support independent bookstores, authors, Librarians, readers watchers. So tonight we have an incredible night. We will be talking with Jane Green about her art her life and her newest and first historical fiction novel. Sister Star Dust and then in the after show we are so lucky to get to talk to Kimberley Brock about her newest the lost book of Eleanor Dare, a reimagining of what happened to the lost colony of Rowan Oak. But before we continue, I have to tell you that Christen harmettal just pined us because she was checking and we literally right now just hit seventy, seventy thousand DOT members. On our face. That was crazy. Weink that we are celebrating our two year anniversary. Who could have imagined SEVENTYZERO members that? It's so great. We love the all. We are so grateful. We are. Yeah, and as you know, from the very start of friends and fiction two years ago, we wanted and we continue to encourage you to support independent booksellers one and where you can, and one way to do that is to visit our own friends and fiction bookshop dot org page. We can find Jane and Kimberly's books and books by the four of us and our past guests out a discount. We also run them. Want to remind you that Mary Kay's the home wreckers is out next week, is six days from now, on May third. We are so excited to get about it. It is oh my gosh, it's fire book and Damn it, it is amazing. So of course it is available wherever books are sold and we are going to have a huge launch party right here on friends and fiction with you, which we promise it's going to be so much fun. But if you want a hand signed first edition of the book, which is a big deal, and also a hand signed first edition of Christie's which came out four weeks ago, the wedding Bale, plus a free gift, you could order the spring friends and fiction box from our friends at independent Bookstore Oxford Exchange. You will receive a beautiful delivery of both books, each of them signed, as soon as they're released. And guess what? Our Christen Hermels, the farest of manishing stars, is also out in paperback rusture. We had a full on musical, because Ustin can do literally everything, and this year we will also celebrate with a special and never before seen videos. So tune in next week for our Super Fun launch for both of these books and make sure that not an aftershow person. Make sure you stick around. Let's get it's not an aftershow person. Seriously, we have a best after shows around the after shows. And speaking of paperbacks, Mary Kay's paperback of the newcomer came out yesterday. So if you missed it last year, which I can't imagine that you did, he did fund the order it now, but here's what it looks like and it furty. Love it. I wish I had my shark at. I wish I had my sharcut and. And in case Y'all are wondering why the book shows behind me or completely covered in Mary K books. I'm not, weirdly, a bad them. Actually, you're just a Oh, I thought you were just a big fan. I'm in Mary case Hallway, so wow. In honor of all things bookish, we hope you have heard about our brand new partnership with fable. More than a hundred and sixty of you have already joined, for our friends and fiction behind the book, our premium club on the cool new social platform called fable. Our first selection is my new...

...book, the wedding bail, and it's been really neat to see all the amazing conversation already happening in the club. Members are introducing themselves, beginning to read and highlight text and start conversations based on my annotations. It's really great. That's right. Y'All respond to our announcement with such enthusiasm last week and we are so excited to keep spreading the word. Tonight we've invited a special guest, Kim Marsh, to tell us a little bit more about fable. Shaw invite Kim m please Hi Kill Yeah, I'm telling me. Thank you so much for being with us. My pleasure so cam but for those of our audience out there who don't know a lot about fable yet, can you tell us why? Fable is a unique experience like no other. Absolutely. I mean in fable unfeeble, you can be inside the book with Christie, with the rest of the members of the club. You're actually reading the EBOOK and coming upon one another's highlights. You can see WHO's highlighted it. You can click to view the annotation. It's like the experience of passing a book back and forth between friends, but there are a hundred and sixty friends in this club, including Christie. I'm sharing her experiences writing the book itself. So it is it feels like magic to me as a lifelong reader. It's really cool. That's it's amazing. So yet and every month will pick a new people commenting about how much they love is stevy. Oh thanks, molly. I'm loving teable, she says. Great, and every month will pick a new book. So this this month, is Christie's and but the APP is free, right, and some of the clubs you post her free, but some have subscription fees. Can you explain how that breaks down? What's included in the monthly and annual fees, all of that? Yes, absolutely. So. Fable is free for anyone to join and actually anyone can start a book club on fable and invite friends to join. So you know, read a couple of friends. Yeah, or start a public club and grow it to Seventyzero users. Maybe. But some of the clubs are premium clubs and they do cost money to join. So the friends and fiction premium club is four hundred and ninety nine to join that single club for four hundred and ninety nine per month. And so you can join for Christie's book, you can, if you haven't yet, we hope that you will, or you can join for the next book coming it. It may or may not be Mary Kay's, my say, and so you'll get to read with Mary K and in the club, or you can sign up for an annual all access membership to fable and that gives you access to, you know, years worth of the friends and fiction behind the book club, but also all of the other premium book clubs on fable, including lave ore Burton's Book Club. He's picking a new book every month to read with him. He's in that club commenting and responding to readers all the time. Lots of other really cool clubs, so check it out. That's awesome. We were actually just discussing what a cool mother's Day if that would be. Yeah, it's seven dollars for the year. Is that right? Is Yeah, so many. Always every premium club, including ours, which is really cool. It's awesome all. I so fable has an e commerce book selling component to it, which we think is a really cool feature. But do the members have to buy the book from fable? No, they definitely do not. They can shop from bookshop dot org. If you are, you know, a hard, hard copy reader through and through, that's totally fine. You're still able to join the discussion and participate view all of the kind of highlighted passages from Christie and from other members of the club. So you still get that full immersive experience. Right now. Can members participate on their computer or do they need the APP on their phone? How does that work? Him they need the APP. If they do so, you'll sign up on kind of like a web page and it will prompt you to download the APP. So I have it here on my phone, but any APP friendly device, so IOS or android, any tablet, any phone. So you can ask us it right there and you can open and read the book right inside the club as well as accessing the discussion. That's so cool. It's just such an interesting, new, innovative way to read together. So can thank you so much for coming tonight. Thanks for joining us. We are so excited to grow friends and fiction behind the book with the fable team and we hope lots and lots more of you out there and our friends and fiction community will join us on fable...

...for this truly unique and immersive experience. So visit fablecom DOTCO backslash friends and fiction to sign up today. So that's Fableco backslash friends and fiction. Thank you so much, Kim. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks. Okay, and before we move on, we have to announce a winner, because, drum roll, Carolyn mcdonna is lucky winner of the adorable friends and fiction rolling car stopped with books. Congratulations, Carolyn May. Will be in touch via the email address you provided. That's the best gift ever. So cool. Okay, and have you heard? Can we do another drum roll? I another DRUMM SNAG and run. All righty part yeah, real, it's happening. We have three friends of fiction live events this summer. So the first is going to be on May fourth in Cleveland, home of our dear friend Ron Black, who will be hosting us for a bit for a theater events with the Kyahoga County Library System. And then we're headed to the Jersey shore two weeks later, on Friday may twenty, for another fun I chest am in love with that post. I know I am about that a second we're headed to the Jersey shore two weeks later, on Friday may twenty, for another fun theater event, this time with independent bookstore booktown and Manasquand, New Jersey. We also have a third event, a luncheon on July twenty one and Rehobeth County Delaware, Robe beat Delaware. We'll share that ticketing link soon and we really hope that you can join us on the road at one of these live celebrations. We are so excited. We started this in lockdown when we couldn't leave. And what's so excited for the opportunity to see so many of you in person. So I just am excited about room service. Then I like who are excited about being in a hotel with room service. Okay, so what for? Without merge, we are having super cool limitedition tour posters made up. You just saw the mockup of it. There it is. They'll be autographed by all four of us. They'll be for sale at all three of our live tour events. If you're any left over after the tour, we might make them available to those of you who couldn't make it in person. But why would you not make it in person? I mean, silly La's about a real band. Now we have tour posters. We are yeah, okay, you guys. Let's welcome our guests for the evening, Jane Green. I'm so excited to have her on tonight. Jane is the author of over twenty novels. Twenty novels, including Eighteen New York Times best sellers, a Cook Book and various short stories. She has over ten million books in print worldwide and her work is published in over twenty five languages. What a freeking career, I know. Over, yeah, and you know, Jane has had our own radio show on the BBC Radio London. She was part of the ABC News Team Covering Royal Weddings. She's made regular appearances on TV and radio and she contributes to several newspapers and magazines. A graduate if the International Culinary Institute in New York, Jane is an Avid Cook look as well as an amateur decorator and a passionate gardener. There anything she doesn't do? Know, there is man, there is he's at is a Jane of all trades right. She lives in Westport, Connecticut with her husband and their animals. Her new novel, sister starred US was released on April five and it is her first novel inspired by a true story, reimagining the life of troubled icon to is it to leave the Gutty? Yes, getting during the swinging S. so, Seann, let's bring Jane On. H D, we are so happy to have you here. Ah, so I happen. I'm so excited to be on you girls, so just a force. Honestly, you're watching what you've done with friends and fictions have been glorious. So congratulations and thank you. I feel very, very lucky to be on new shoes. We feel lucky that you've joined us. Our photo you before we dive in, because we have so much to talk about we have to lift our glasses. We sent Jane some champagne to celebrate with us because, Gaine, you are here for our two year anniversary. Cheers, y'all. Yes, YEA, and Seventyzero. Seventyzero and two years. Who? That's right. We really can't even express to all of you how much you have meant to us over the past two years. Yeah, it is just been such an credible journey. And, Jane, we're so...

...thankful that you're here to celebrate with US tonight, as Am I. and and yes, it has been a brutal two years and have this and have just, you know, sunny people bringing wonderful stories is what we've all needed. So, my friends, thank you. Well, thank you so much for saying that, but you know, I it's the community out there that I mean. That's that's what we're all about, and you know, for all of you out there, the incredible laughter, tears and real conversations we've had with you through the years, and that's what sustained us through some rough times and some celebratory times too. We're just we're so honored and proud to be doing this and so honored to be walking this road with all of you like who would have thought? This is amazing, so much fun. So I think the time to head. Here's to everyone. Tears. Yeas to everyone, and I always think people are surprised to hear about community that exists within the world of women writers. It's actually it's I have never experienced anything like it. I mean, everybody that I know is willing to build everybody else up and there's so much and it's actually you would expect there to be some competition. I really haven't encountered it. And what I encounter far more is is this that you've come together to raise other authors up. She is chill and slaves. I have no crowding. We could just want the next forty five minutes. That all right then, what a whirlwind it has been for you and this book your first historical fiction. So first things. First, I was recently with Kate Quinn and she asked me this fabulous question that I'm going to ask you. Tell us what your book sister Star guest is about and then tell us what it is really about. Love. That so so what sister start us follows a young shopgirl called Claire in s England and she grows up in the countryside at a time when England suddenly burst into color because we've been recovering from the war. There was no money, everything was terribly depressed and all of a sudden a number of things happened in England. England won the World Cup in football. We have the hill and so there was the sexual revolution and we had our own music. For the first time ever in history, we had the Beatles. It's not it's not me doing, I'm just saying. I just like it's not me either. It almost it almost feels like it's like someone saying that's right, that's right. Every day it's me. I have a new computer and I'm just so you're trying to figure out of turn off my intifications. Sorry, I have such an electric personality I'm causing them. So we have our own musicians, we have the Beatles and we had the rolling stones. And so claire is watching London burst into color and burst into life and she finally manages to get to London and once they're she gets swept up by a band of kind of cool people. Some of them are musicians and they're they're very they're in the world and they spirit her off after a party one night to go and stay with Paul and Telita Getty and Mary Kesh. And Paul Getty Jr was the son of at the time the richest man in the world. Do you remember the boy who had his who was kidnapped and had his air comes? This is his father. So his father's second wife was Telita, was an actress, social like called Tolita Pol Tis her that told that guys Talita was. She was a socialite and an actress and they fell madly in love and they bought an old, dilapidated palace in Marra Kesh. The Claire, who is renamed CECY because it's more Bohemian and free spirited, stays with them and Mary Kesh and it seems to be an impossibly glamorous life. Vogue would write about them all the time. Diana reel and spend a lot of time in Araw Kesh and she was great friends with the Getty's and she would write about Mrs Getty going taught walking the suits every morning to look for entertainers to amuse her guests that night. So she would walk the suits and the old market looking for for snake charmers and jugglers and magicians to come back and entertain the guests on their...

...rooftop terrors. But Claire Gets caught up in this world of Arabian nights that feels completely magical. But of course behind the scenes they are diving into opium addiction first and then ultimately heroin addiction. And and our little innocent CEC has no idea the danger that she has put herself in by stepping into this incredibly glamorous wilds. So that is what the book is about. But what the book is really about love. That is I think it's it's you know, I first saw a photograph of Tilly to getty when I was teenager. I happen to have one here in my office which is very handy. That is Tlit. That is the photo. But I saw as a teenager which is a very famous photo in England of her on this rooftop in this exquisitely embroider wedding captain, and I think I actually fell in love with her. I mean I saw that when I was probably twelve or thirteen, a very awkward teenager, and I have spent my whole life wondering about her. I'm wanting to know more. So actually, what I think sister Stardust is is a love letter to the S, which is when I was born, but it was really when I should have come of age, and love letter to marry Kesh and it's a love letter to Tola Getty. That's really what this book is. He had a friend. Love that so much. Well, Jane, as we sort of covered in your buyer a little bit, you have so many talents and so many interests and I know for all of us sometimes, you know, the big question is what are we right next? You know, what is the next thing, because we have so many ideas, and I know you've talked about you know, other contemporary story ideas, maybe even at memoir. So for you, what was that spark that made you say, you know, this is time, this is the book for railing. Actually, honestly, it was my very brilliant editor. So when I moved to Hanna a square, I have an editor called John Glynn, who is himself a writer and he wrote a utiful memoir called out east, about a summer he spent, how sharing in Montalk and it was the with friends and it was the summer when he really discovered who he was. And this is the thing, because publishing has been in some oil for the past few years. I'm sure that many of us have experienced this where where there's a thing that that happens where they'll look at something that's working, they'll go, oh, done, girls are huge. Hit Jane, we need you to write the psychological thriller, and they start to sort of try and squeeze you into the holes that they think are working rather than letting you write what you want to write. Mine I felt that for quite some time and when I joined hand of a square at Harper Collins, John said, have you ever thought about writing historical fiction? And as soon as he said that I thought, well, to the s s count and when I told him what I knew about to La Getty, he said yes, he's aid. You have to write this because I can feel your passion and actually always said that. Even when I handed this book in and we started talking about my next book, he said, I don't care what you write as long as you're passionate about it. And that is because he's a writer, because he understands that you cannot fit around peg into a square. I mean you can try, but ultimately it doesn't it doesn't work. That was really where it all came from. That's interesting. You know, I actually knew down a little bit because I blow uped a book of his a year or two ago that he had edited called our blood runs read, I think was the name of the book, and it was a great non fiction book. I loved and I I just I loved his passion for it. That's so interesting to hear you talk about him and his influence kind of on on this path. It's nice when you come across an editor who can kind of help steer you. Yeah, help, help, help builds you up to do what you were meant to do. sortever, doney, and and also, I mean they did, I have to say, you know, there have been things that they've done that have blown me away. So, for example, that cover, which you know aren't is quite or just put it also capt just the sort of magic and exhosticism of the book and, yeah, the art. The whole creative team read this book cover to cover. That's she took me through the whole process of them coming up with this cover. And, and I know Patty and I have shared this. You know, so often you'll write a book that sometimes has a dark subject or and because it comes out in summer and because, I don't know, and Ellen Hilde Brown book is the book of the moment, they'll put a similar cover on even when it has nothing to do with the story. I felt like they did a beautiful job...

...of capturing the story. And also, John was the one my working title for this book. So when they bought they went to mark. Talita and Paul Getty went to Marrakesh on their honeymoon and they met their friend Bill Willis there, who was a kentucky boy who for had fallen in love with America. She'd moved to Americash and, by the way, he taught he loved everything to do with Morocco, but he taught his chef, his Moroccan chef, her baby, to cook his mother this souff and cheese to flee. I don't know, mother suffering, come for dinner and they would serve and stop and recipes, Southern American recipes. He showed them this dilapidated palace called the La Palais de Lazare here and by the end of the first day they bought it for tenzero dollars. and Bill as you do, as you do, you do, and Bill Willis was in charge of renovation and he just he created this extraordinary palace that Talita, we named Look Palais de Clusia, which is the past pleasures or pleasure powers. So my working title and the title that I came up with for this book was the pleasure powers. But then John said, I've spoken to sales and they think it's has like a Rossica, maybe a little, maybe this to star dust. So if I love that, the most perfect titles. So really is so jam. This book takes place in the S of London, with all that entails. I mean, you've been sharing so much about it, but you know it was s in London. My Gosh, like what I wouldn't give to travel back to that time. The Beatles, the stone I just wars, the budding and the closed. Hundred percent. So publishers weekly said about the book. Green convincingly describes the appeal of the music scene as well as the allure of her beautiful characters, both famous and fictional. Greens fans will be delighted by this story of glitter and tragedy. What a great review. So we would love a Jeane, if you could talk to us about your research. I mean it's so clear how, how deeply you have, you kind of plunged into this world and really immerse yourself in it. But we would love to know how how you dove into this world and specifically the music and the scene of that time and most specifically the rolling stones. I mean asking these questions. So you know what what was fascination to me? I'd seen that photograph. I was fascinated by Lee to getty. But you know, as so often happens in these very wealthy, powerful families that have great tragedies, they locked down and meet actually died of a heroin overdose at the age of thirty. Seeing her in the Rom apartment that her husband owned and she gone back to some say to reconcile with him, some stages divorce papers, but there was there was the story cut around her death changed a couple of times and and I think that the getty family sort of looked out of this. Very, very little written about her, and so I had to come at its sideways and I had to make lists of anyone who was around at that time who was in that sort of social scene in London in Marrakesh, and read everything I could get my hands on. I also decided to move back to London from Connecticut to write this book. Wow, now it wasn't I I had a whole list of people that I was supposed to meet with, but as soon as I got to Londown they went into lockdown. There were only that up like an hour a day for exercise, and so I you know, I didn't end up meeting many of the people that I wanted to. Also, I was I was astonished at how many people did not want to revisit those times. And Yeah, I also understand that. You know that there's a woman called Jane Ormsby Gore who was at the center of that world in the city. She's an Aristocrat and the daughter of Lord Harlock in London and she has said if you remember the S, you weren't going there. Yeah, yeah, it is possible that people don't remember. But I also think so many unbelievably talented bright lights lost their lives too early. Then Jimmy Hendricks Chand was Choplin, to Lee to get in. The list goes Tera Brown and yes, Tara Brown exactly. The list goes on. I think it's probably quite painful to revisit, but I but I did find people who were friends with Tulita who spoke to me. And then I was not a Roman Stones Fan. I wasn't pretty kindly interested in the stones, but I...

...suddenly sort of stumbled upon their connection with Morocco and and in the s there was actually a it started with Brian Jones, and Brian Jones was the founder of the rolling stones. He was a very good looking, talented musician. He put the band together, he found Keith and Mick, he named them. He was the one who decided they be called the rolling stones. But he had a huge drug problem and he also had a very abuse of childhood which led him to very abusive relationships. He fathered a number of kids. He had a girlfriend called Anita Palenberg, who was a very beautiful model actress. He would beat her up all the time. She would slug him back was madly dysfunctional and Brian as he as he sort of got further into drugs, he tried to cling on to being the head fell. He was the leader of the rolling stones and we had a newspaper at the time called the news of the world, which was like the national enquirer, and they were doing a series of stories about celebrities and drug taking and journalist from the national choir and national choir happened to be in a pub in Chelsea and they saw a member of the rolling stones in there and they invited him to come and sit with them. This was in one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven. He came and sat down at the table and within minutes he was offering the drugs. He was asking if they knew where he could score some more. And a week later a story came out in the Music Mick Jagger and his drug problem. But it wasn't Mick Jagger, it was from sued the news of the world and one so to get back news of the world set up a sting and they brought somebody over who they said was a friend of Timothy leary. Said so Dr Timothy Leary was a Harvard professor doing all of this research into psychedelic drugs, and they bought this man over called Dave Schneiderman and through Keith Richards, one of the chauffeurs, they got him into the rolling stairs and you was like Hey, man, I've got the bests do you've ever had him? Larry and and all he supplied them with the drugs and they all went off to keep rinches house in Sussett, his wonderful country house that he still owns today, and they they spent the day going for walks in the country doing this LSD trip, and when they got back to the house in the evening, coming down, planning on having a quiet night, all of a sudden floodlights went on around us and they were surrounded. They've been tipped off by the news of the world. The police, eighteen piecemen, were there. They stormed inside, they arrested everyone. Now eventually the chargers were dropped, but to get away from all of the press they decided to go to Morocco and keep ritually had a Bentley as pree continental and in the back he's they'd sort of made the back. They customize the backs. There were fur rugs there were record players and corn magazines and Brian Jones and his girlfriend Anita and Keith Richards were in the back of this car. They picked up another friend, Deborah, but then they dropped her off in Paris. The car also had secret drug compartments all over the place, so they actually sent Keith chauffeur. He drove over on the ferry to France and they flew over and met him in France. That he cleared customs with all the hidden us and they started making their way to Morocco. And then Brian, who always had asthma, suddenly developed pneumonia and so they had to drop him off the tour in France, leaving Anita Palenberg and Keith Richards alone in the back of the bentleys three continental, which was actually called the Blue Lana, with her and the poor magazines. They felt madly in love because he also had watched Brian beat Anita up. I mean he can't stand mob Brian Treated Anita and and keep an Anita with them together for the next thirteen years, and and that really informed the whole story. I didn't I I mean I knew about eater, but I didn't know that and that ended up taking the story in a completely different direction. And they were you know, every time the heat it got too hot for them in the UK, the stones would take off for take off the Morocco. And if that Mick Jagg or Mary Anne faithful were great friends with the guess she's, and this is in the book and it's true, that wouldn't when they recorded rock wild horses, they actually left. Mick Jagger left the tape of wild horses at the guess she's...

...palace for them to listen to. Yes, Oh my God, I would have fallen into that research holl forever, keep going. And then what happened? And then my cat, I mean the story. Hi, it's I become so obsessed with the rolling stones that I actually of course, I'm a menopause a woman. I don't sleep anymore, ever. So three or four o'clock in the morning last week I was sitting there thinking, thinking, I, you know, eat, Charlie's now gone. I really need to see them. I've never seen them, and then I looked up to see where they were playing and they were playing in Hyde Park in London with and the thing is I'm from London but also hipop Brian Jones was another one who met a tragic, tragic end. He may actually end up having to kick him out of the stones because his drugs, his drug problems was so bad and he really loved the blues. They were going in different musical directions and he bought a house called Cochfoot farm in the countryside, which was at where a mill wrote wrote Winnie the POO wow. You was found dead in his swimming pool pool, yeah, days after he left the wrong stones and it was at the time pronounced an accident, although they believe really it was. It was. It was murder and it was it was one of the builders that was working on his house. But but they then they have a concert in one thousand nine hundred and sixty nine in high park, which was three days after Brian died, and it turned into a tribute concert to Brian Jones and and Mick Jagger released all these white girls. So I am going to see boys of rock at Hide Park. That's amazing that when it is yeah, come the more of the area, but Januinely want to Morocco. Did Research for the book as a correct I did. Yeah, well, I fine enough. I always I feel like I fell in love with Morocco because of the photograph and because of my my sort of my whole lifelong obsession with delita. But it was once, it was only once I got to Morocco that I understood how that life must felt, what it must have been like, because the minute the you step through, you know, the gates into the old city of Marrakesh, it is otherworldly. It is unlike anywhere I've ever been. That that the sites and the colors and the smells. You have orange trees everywhere, so you have the scent of Orange Blossom mixing with the spices from the suits and and in the evenings they burned sandalwood logs in fireputs in the inland smiles and Farther Square. And then you have the animal heads hanging from the suits dripping blood. So you have this kind of that wall. How e smell of blood mixing with the spices and it more want to go. Well, it smells like life. It is a place of how it feels more alive than anywhere I've ever been and it's very hard to sort of capture those times. I don't think I could have done it had I not been because I understood how you're just sort of it's a feast for the senses and how you can get swept up, because the truth is a lot of how they lived I couldn't put in the book, I mean the truly that their party. She was famous for her parties and she would announce, let we're going to go for a picnic in the outlas mountains, and all of the house boys would have to cart all of the the brass trays with all the food and rubs and cushions and they would devolve into these sort of bugy stick affairs. It was free love and today's standards doesn't support that. But when you go there you sort of understand how it was. Pom counterculture it, you know, Free Love was all the rage and how they just let their senses take over. They also used to serve the delicacy in when people would get to the palace, was something called Ms June, which is an ancient amaze recipe, which used to be called Berber for a kind of sweetmeat that is made of chop dates, figs, rose water, pistachios, card mom, cinnamon and Hasheh, my God. And so their guests will be lounging on the pillows on the rooftop and they just have a little nibble here and a little bite here and and all of a sudden they'd been, you know, away with the fairies about it, Maraka. So all right,...

...you're going to ask this question. NOPE, go, go, Cathy, but you ask it. Okay, let's talk about creative outlets. Jane, Anyone who follows you on Social Medea media, and everyone should, knows about your extraordinary interior decorating, your cooking talent. You have a cookbook and you are so multi talented that you have made art, clothing and jewelry as comanion companions for this book. So take to us a little bit about that and how that I be part of your creative process doesn't help the writing like an and ever, and can anybody find her by all these amazing things you've done? Well, I you know, this is the first time this is ever happening. I wasn't art student. I did go to art school, but I haven't really done anything for decades and decades. But there was something about writing this book, and I am very binary. I'm all or nothing. So I really immersed myself in this world for the two years. I mean I just I lived a breath slip, but I found at some point quite early on, it sort of reawakened a creativity that I thought I had left behind. Yees gone. The last time I can paint in anything was in my s and all of a sudden I found myself sketching scenes from the book and characters from the Book and Tolita and and so I have these paintings now that I have been selling. And and then that that famous picture that I showed you. She's wearing a traditional Moroccan wedding captain, but I took the pattern and used it as inspiration and painted it and had it printed onto silkshiff on and and made into CAFTANS that I designed. And so they are all I have a retail partner, so we are selling them, you know, in the flesh, but I also set up a shop on instagram and I did. She loved snakes. Why I have a snake pendant that I have made the telite dependant. So I have all these fun things that I have really loved jumping back into sort of those early days where I started as an art and fashion student. I've just I've I've adored rediscovering this, this side of my creative because writing is creative, but but this is a different side of my creative to that I haven't visited for a long time. I figured they were interlaking. So we have so many live questions that we've been talking so much. But, Mary Kay, will you pick one of the like? Yeah, here's a good one. Sharon Carlson, person once to know. Jane. Do you have a playlist of songs go along with the books as restart? That is the perfect question because yes, I their question. Yes, well, that's perfect. I'm actually I did because to immerse myself fully, I started listening to to all of the songs that I grew up with. Actually they would. They are the songs of my childhood and, and I want to say this as well, I love those books, that the S S and s s here. I loved Malibu Rise and Daisy Jones in the six I love Mary Jane by Jessica and you of law. I could. That wasn't I experience. My experience was not woodstock and flower power and hate Ashbury and the summer of love. The experience in Europe was very different. It was still counterculture, but it was much more influenced by by Africa and and so I put together a playlist of all of the songs that that I loved from that, from the time that sister start us, as it's really from nineteen sixty six to nineteen seventy one, and it's the sister start us playlist on spotify. So now it's cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I can't wait to check that out. Well, Jane, we love a good writing tip, we really do, and we know your first book came out in one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven, and then to Mima Jay and one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight, took a racket ship to the moon, and so we know that everyone wants to hear your writing tip tonight, if you would like to share one with us. So actually, my writing took is that you need a PhD to write. But in my world what that is is persistence, because you're going to hit robox every step of the way, humility, because it's, you know, it's in the beginning. You think over. These are my words. No one has the right to tell me. What do you have? You know, either a really smart friend or a really good editor, and you have to trust them and listen to them, and discipline, because it's really of up getting...

...your button that chair and getting those words on the page. I love that humility discipline. That's awesome. It's intastic. Yeah, I'd like to take up needle point again. They maybe you didn't think something with that. Okay, something got for needle pointing. Yeah, he'd just know something. Okay. So we usually ask authors to give us a book suggest and we'd love that too, but there is a question that New York Times Book Review Asks of Authors, and so we're going to ask you tonight, Jane, what book might we be surprised to find in your library or on your nightstand? So I do. Actually, it's just I'm open, which tells you probably that this is not in my future. But I do have screenwritings for dummies. Oh and I have. I was bought in to do a rewrite on a screenplay and I had a partner and it was great. I actually don't think I'm a natural screenwriter, but it's one of this and that. Every now and then I feel like I ought to study it and learn, but then every time I do it's just like it's like Latin to me. I it's not my language. So so I don't know, but it's still there, so you never know. I haven't got rid of it yet, haven't given it to anyone, so never know. I may go through it page by page. I'm the same way. It seems seems like an entirely doescent book. Different vocabulary to me is that it is yeah, about a book, suggestion as of something you're loving. Yes, there are lots of book that books that I'm loving. I'm I have to push John Cells her last pair, like I really love Mystique Island by Sarah McCoy, also goes back to the S and mist. Funny enough, the photographer who took that picture of Paul and to be togere. She was Patrick Litchfield, Lord Lichfield, who features heavily in Mystique island. I have decided we're going to start a useenre called captanlet love our Saras. I also I'm really loving, and it's not out yet, but the sweet spot by Amy Popol okay, which is wonderful, and then Marcy Demanski, who wrote very nice, which is one of my most favorite books of a couple of years ago, has a new book coming out called Hurricane Girl and it's if you like. Where'd you go? Bernadette by Maria sample, which I did. I love and she is sheet. Marcy Damansky is just a gorgeous writer, Quirky, funny, really, really lovely and and ought to be, ought to be huge. So so the more people we can get to read have books, the best. UF An, it's right now. Good to know. All right, Jane, don't go anywhere. Please just stick around her a couple more minutes because we have more to talk about. But we have to send out a few reminders. All right. So do you need an idea for a great hostess, teacher or Mother's Day gift? We suggest, completely selflessly, the friends and fiction book and Coffee Bundles available through our friends at Charleston Coffee roasters. You choose as signed book by one of us and then you select the coffee roast and the grind of your choice. So you pay one price for the Bundle and receive your book and Coffee Pairing in the mail. Check the bundles out at Charleston Coffee Roasterscom. Also remember to enter our ongoing coffee of the month giveaway. Tonight we can announce our April winner, who was randomly drawn, but who happens to be someone who has been so darn supportive and friends and fiction for so long, which I feel like it's just a special kind of magic, as we're celebrating our second anniversary and our seventyzero anyhow, Patti, are you up for one more drum roll? I'm always up for ground defense. Rum Roll. All right, Drumbo please. Those very completed. Was a beautiful drum roll. I loved it. But he's recratulations to Bubba Wilson of wake forest, North Carolina, our lovely bubba. So she has won a three month subscription, which is a ninety dollar value, and we are wondering, will you out there be our may winner? You can enter now and find out. And don't forget that everyone on the friends in fiction community, which includes all of us on here on screen, who also love Charleston Coffee Roasters, get twenty percent off all bagged coffees on the Charleston Coffee roasters website with code coffee with friends. No spaces, coffee with friends. And now for a quick reminder of our writers block podcast will always drop links under announcements each time a new one drops a new episode launches each Friday. On the last episode, Ron talked to Rachel bomb and Baron baumb about Atomic...

Anna and Bonnie garmos about lessons in chemistry. That book is so hot right now everywhere. I love it. Yeah, and so ron talks to both of them about women's science and fiction. Then this week row did I get to talk about have a behind the scenes chat about the homewreckers. Awesome right. Speaking of the home wreckers, we know that many of you have been participating in our very first friends and fiction reading challenge, and next month we start a new challenge. May is all about the beach read. It's been so fun seeing the books you're sharing in our challenge and we can't believe for already in month five. Wow, see now did somebody say beach reads? have an idea of something we could read that's a beach read? Thankang thinking of a beach yes, and by the way, if you were not hanging out with us yet in the friends and fiction official Book Club, you're missing out. So the group, which is separate from US and is run by our friends Lisa Harrison and Brenda Gardner, is, as you know, now more than eleven thousand strong. We are so proud of them, so happy for them. So it's completely free and it gives you incredible insight into the authors of your favorite books. We've been talking a lot about fable. It's something completely separate through two totally different things, and this is incredible. I mean Brenda and Lisa pour their whole hearts into it and all, Elevenzero of you who are there with them know that. So make sure to join the MA six. That's a week from this Friday, for a special happy hour with our very own roun block and Petty Kelly and Henry. And then very soon they will be welcoming friends and fiction favorite, why we cash, who we all adore, and make sure to join us for our next episode of friends and fiction next Wednesday at seven PM, where we are celebrating the launch of Mary Kay's the homewreckers with hats. There you go, or alert spoiler. Aler possibly beards? Yeah, possibly Beers and definitely as and a definite friends and fiction theater. So and we will also be celebrating Christen's launch of the paperback of the forests of vanishing stars. As always. WHAT SCHEDULE IS UP NEXT? It's always on the website and the heterographic on the facebook page. All right, Jane, you are up one more time. So I know you grew up for many years in England. I'm curious with the values around reading and writing were in your childhood. Oh well, but I mean, I always say that I became a writer because I was a reader. And I became a reader because I was a child who didn't who felt that she didn't fish. He and I was very shy, I was very awkward and the place where I found my solace and joy was within the pages of books. And I I was the kid, you know, reading with a flashlight under the duvey late at night. I would pray for rainy days. Not Difficult in England. Obviously rainy days mends in the playground. We got to hang out in the in the school library, and I go and Carlt in a beam bag. Look at I didn't. I did not have an easy childhood and and it was losing myself and stories that saved me and gotten through. And so I mean that's why I I became a writer, no doubt in my mind. It's incredible. I wonder. I mean, I guess we could go back and look at two years worth of shows. But I think, I'm going to guess ninety eight percent of people say the same things. Book saved me. Books where my ball as, because we become, you know, if you're not, if you're not a kid that is happy and accepted and loved, you're standing on the outside. And and when you're standing on the outside, you come and observe. You don't have a choice. You're you're always on the outset. So you become an observer and and hey, I mean I wouldn't change anything. I'm very grateful for all of it, but I did. It is something that I think we all were, so many of us writers have in common. Yeah, well, friends and fiction, welcome to psychology. When I yes, exactly in fiction. All right, all of you out there, don't go anywhere. Kimberly Brad is joining us in for the after show. But Jane, thank you so much for spending time with us. Oh, are amazing. Tell everyone where they can find you. Your your calf canned, your really, I'm most act on Instagram, actually says when green author on Instagram. You can sew my shot. I'm so sorry that it's very expensive right now. The captains, but hope we're trying to do a polly shift on version that will be much more affordable. And also I'm really jealous that you are going to...

...have the after party now with Kimberly brought because Ilco I went. I'm going to let Kimberly have have a glorious time with all of you, but I just thank you. I my most favorite thing was years ago, Mary Kakid, when I used to live in a very grand big house, which lasted about two seconds. Mary take came over because we did an event together and D I'm in Jane Green's double. Why? And it was said with such a heavy, dosy song. Some people were they actually don't magnis. By the way, I now live in the cheay tiniest beach coutures you ever seen your life. Nor I love that we are. I love that. You know I see Mary Kate, I see you. Actually I like it to meet Christen and Christie. Just your delightful all of you. Thank you, Jay, thank for Halling you there art and your books and your process and opening up to us. Thank you. Thank you saying great hang out for after show, where will be, while welcoming Kimberly Brock and don't forget that. You can find all of our back episodes on Youtube. We live there every week and be sure to come back next week, same time, same place as we wear hard hats for Mary Kay's the Hurd and wear flower things for the Christmas paperback for the vanishing stars. See all in a minute. To night. Oh, it's he's probably paying a Castan. She's but she's getting more champagne. Sorry. Did you guys all right? Y'All, welcome to shop really quickly. That's yes, efficient. That wasn't us. That was kind of stunning. Well, you guys have. was so much fun it makes me want to go to Maer Kesh a little bit. Yeah, you so. Maybe our next friends and fiction live event. It's what it really is. CLEVELAND, Jersey Shore. We're hope with be America. Your cash, and I know to Alita is incredibly fascinating, but those stories about the stones, Oh wow God. And you could just feel her passion. I mean you can sell her passion for them. That's I love that. You can tell why she ended up making art and jewelry and everything about it, because she's, yeah, into it all right. Heard how she poured that onto the page to you know what I mean, like you could just tell when an author feels it in yeah, in her heart, definitely. Yeah, all right, yeah, we're so excited. We're pals with our friend Kimberly Brock and we want to welcome her. She is the award winning author of the river which, which was an Amazon bestseller featured by both national and international book clubs. Wait, was I supposed to say something? Nobody, I'll do it for you. The novel was also honored with the prestigious Georgia author of the Year award in two thousand and thirteen by the Georgia Writers Assis. So here it is. I'm sorry, I'm with that mill worries. So she received, we should received her bachelor's degree from the University of West Georgia and previously worked as an actor and a special needs educator. Additionally, in two thousand and fourteen, Kimberly founded tinderbox writers workshop, a creative experience for women in the arts. She lives near Atlanta with her husband and three children. Her new novel, the last book of Eleanor Dare, was just released earlier this month, and so let's bring her on so we can talk to her instead of about her here? Hello, well, you hear me? Is Everything working? It is good. You Great, I can so much. We are thrilled that you're here, and I read that you said this. Between the day I first read Eleanor Eleanor dares message left on a slab of rock and the day I sat down to write this novel, I was haunted by the idea of what is lost when we don't tell our stories, and you know that's kind of a theme we've been exploring lately. Yeah, so before we take a deeper dog, can you tell us what we asked Jane earlier? This is our new favorite question. What is this book about? And then what is it really about? Love? Well, we probably should have just listened to Jane for another thirty minutes. I was seeing there walking. I think I was probably not paying attention to what time it is. And I guess it's funny to me because you're talking about the stones, so we're going to talk about right stones. But maybe so. This book is about two mysteries. Really it's about the first mystery being the mystery, the oldest mystery in America, of the lost colony of Roanoke, and most people know that from like fifth grade history. This one of the first colonies, the first colony that came from England that had women and children,...

...and they landed in North Carolina on this little scrubby island. They were supposed to go on up to Cheske Pink Bay and they were dumped off there by the people who were in charge of the boats and things went wrong really fast and by the time the the man that was the governor, returned to the colony with supplies, he left three years later, came back and they were all missing. So nobody knows really what happened to them. There's lots of speculations. So that's the first mystery, historical mystery, true. Second historical mystery is about the dear stones. And in one thousand nine hundred and thirty seven a man tripped over a rock and eating to North Carolina that had an inscription written on it and he threw it in his trunk and he and his wife are on vacation and they came on down into Georgia to emory college and he took it in and he said, so, what do you think? Because this was the end of the depression. This was like the time when Barnum was a big deal and there were all of these sort of sketchy fake effigies and people were making money anyway they could. So everybody at the college looked at it and lost their minds because they thought that it was a message from the daughter of the governor of the lost colony. And on the stone it says there was a massacre, that her family, her husband and daughter Virginia Dare, who most people know, who is famous as the first British child that was born in the new world, were killed and she and only a few had survived. This stone was marking their death date and then also basically telling her father, we're going this away, come find us. So there was this sensation in the news and it was crazy and everybody was all over the world excited about it. A couple of years went by. The stone went to a college about an hour north of where I live now here in Atlanta, and they said, if you find any more of these, will pay you. And so you know what happens. Then all of these other stones turn up. Right about forty eight stones were found and then in one thousand nine hundred and forty it was all debunked by the Saturday evening post except for the first stone, and nobody has ever been able to prove or disprove that first message. So those two mysteries are the true history. And I went and saw the stone and I was just intrigued by it. It annoyed me that I didn't know about it. I couldn't imagine how I didn't know about it, but I didn't know I would be so emotional when I saw it. And I cried and I thought what is wrong with me? I was sitting in my car. The poor little woman that was there in the archive room was like honey and I cried and I thought what, why am I so emotional? And I realized I didn't care if it was true. Wow, I was remembering that woman because of this story. The stone was now part of her story, whether it was authentic to the lost colony and her or not. And so I spent about twenty years thinking about that, when the story, that's really the story, is her descendants. So sixteen generations later, a mother and a daughter that I've imagined and sort of coming to terms with what they believe about their family history and stories that have not been told in their family and stories that they need to know. About one another and it's at the end of World War Two, so it's right after those stones were debunked. And I kind of just thought, you know, I know the date on the stone is fifteen ninety one, supposedly when it was carved. I know when the guy tripped over it and found it in one thousand nine hundred and thirty seven. But where was that sucker all the rest of that time and who might it have mattered to and how? And I thought if it was eleanor's story, she was telling it for her daughter and for the next daughter and the next daughter. So that's what it's really about. It's a mother daughter story. Oh my God, I love that so much. And Patty, can I just commend you. I'm bringing it that excellent Kate Queen in question to us sendings of a story. It's fantastic. It sure does so well. Kimberly, I you know, I feel like if there's a theme to tonight, it is research that we fall into and fall in love with. It pushes US along this path to these these beautiful novels. I feel like that's one of the things that you and Jane have in common. With you, I could just hear your passion, as you were talking about, talking about the come with Jane Green. That's good to talk to you more, to talk to us more. But...

...you know, speaking of theme, the theme of loss and grief does run through this book, but so does hope. Can you tell us how you work with theme? And they were always curious as writers about you know, about how you work these things in? So do you know the theme when you go in or the themes kind of arise naturally as you find your way into the story? And also, do you see any other themes in here? Speaking of themes, since it's a theme night, a night of themes, a theme Party, the Party. I love it. I think I'm it's a little of both for me, isn't it a little both for all of us? I mean, I know all of your work to ride and I think I go in with an idea of what I'm writting about. If I don't have that, under that, underneath, what's the story, beneath the story part that I get born with what I'm doing, they're just kind of stick figures moving around doing I don't care about them unless I know really what I'm trying to say. And I knew I knew from the start what this book is really about. Survivors guilt, and I have that in my own life and I could imagine eleanor standing there and thinking, I mean she was nineteen when she came with her father, who was the governor, and she was pregnant and newly married, and I just with dad disappearing and then standing there in a wilderness and your child and your husband have died. I don't think eleanor was staying there thinking, wow, this is really going to turn out great, I'm going to make it, you know. I think she just wanted to leave a mark and I don't know something about that. It worked for me internally, for my own subconscious and and I was thinking about where you're at at the end of World War II. You don't know you're at the end of World War II when you're living it. Yeah, and here you are a woman and it's a home front story. It's not. You know, there are a lot of stories right now about women in history who are spies and who are in the European theater, and I don't see a lot of stories about what women were doing on the Georgia coast with a thirteen year old daughter looking around, going where all the in? What's going to happen to us? Yeah, and and we have, when we have survived the people that we love or even just survived different challenges in our lives. Where do you go? How do you know what to do next? What comes next? Who Am I? Who Are you? Those mother daughter questions were in it. So I think it's both. The themes have to be there for me or I I could have written something about eleanor and I tried for a long time. I turned in like a an entire manuscript and my agent said this is great. Now where's the rest? Because I hadn't written eleanor's story and I didn't want to. I felt like I was stomping through a graveyard or, I don't know, like it just wasn't my place to make something up for her. And she said, but what is this story really about? You know, I know, you know, it's all in your head, and I was not. I fought her for six weeks and I woke up in the middle of the night and I could hear it and it wasn't that third person, typical duel timeline. It was it was a mother. It was a mother telling a story, and that's when I knew what the story was about. This is about what we tell our daughters, what we don't killed them, what our mothers tell us, what they don't tell us, what happens when they run out of time and and how we passed things along, when our history has been lost. What happens if you just don't know, if you're never going to know, how do you live with that? The love we're in like English one, oh one tonight, because Christen's asking you about themes and now symbolism in this bok. No going to the next level here, but you've got these chapel bells and loose bricks and there's a lot of symbolism in this book. So can you tell us a little bit about some of that symbolism, of course without giving too much away. Oh my gosh, Christiegree no, like I don't get the Champaigne. We owe you so symbolism in this book. I'm like really...

...having to think. I guess I do that naturally, as I right, I'm weird like that. I I the bell was important to me because the book Ellen worstail is not a true story. It's a fable, you know, like it's it's kind of like a game of telephone. These women, for Sixteen Generations, have passed down this story. So by the time it's into the book it has these symbols embedded in it because it's sort of the way these women are teaching their daughters lessons and and one of them is a vision that they talked about the the dog, the dare ares having of who they will be in life and knowing from them their mothers before them. There's a tea in the book that they drink for this vision and you know it's it's maybe it's real, maybe it's just something comforting that they teach their daughters. The bell is something that is not ringing anymore on the property and the thirteen year old girl is obsessed with repairing it and she's lost her father and she they have so many unanswered questions and the idea of being able to make this bell green seems to her like a restoration that will bring her community together, bring her a family, bring her some kind of answers, bring some kind of joy where there's silence and where the stories are not being told. Trying to think what else, I know that's anty answer. The book is so multi layered and just so many symbols and themes and but the truth is it's also just a page turning amazing mystery. So you know to dive underneath. But before we let you go from our aftershow, I need you to tell everybody where to find you, but also talk just a teeny bit before we leave, about how you keep the creative spirit alive with tinder box, not only with your work but with your classes and your groups, and how people can find you and the book. And I think you're still on tour right. I am. You can find tour dates on my website. I'm so tired. I will be there. How you all do this? I'm like, how many days if I've been doing this most just anywhere. You know I'm forever. So I'm introducing myself and then I'm like, I got nothing else. I don't know what to say. And I will say this. I know three of you very well. I'm so glad to meet you, Kristen. I'm so glad. Mary Kay, was about to thank you. I'm worried about that. I want to be in your grocery card, Mary Kay. That we all do. And and what either? Yeah, get to go first, I'm going to ride in the little front and can really can ride the back. Okay, and there's no you can find me on my website. You can find me on all of the author places. You know I love Instagram to I'm kind of a linger there more. I'm not on twitter so much anymore. As for tinder box, haven't been able to hold a retreat because of Covid for the last couple of years, so I'm hoping to kind of reimagine that. I have some thoughts about that, but it's not happened yet and it really is the same thing that you've done here. During covid it I went through kind of a dry spell. Maybe it was while I was trying to decide what this book was really about and, you know, personal life and kids and things, and I started hearing all these women say I'm just not creative, or I used to be creative but I don't do anything anymore, and I was hearing it everywhere and I thought well, that's I can do something about that. So I rented some space and these eight women showed up that I had never seen in my life and from my experience as a teacher, a lot of brain science with the kids that I worked with, because I had kids that were neurological challenged kids, and I did a lot of creativity activities with these ladies. You know, it wasn't just writing, but it ended up being all about storytelling, all about makers and doing things with our hands and and as we did those things, all these stories and all this creativity kind of came out of it. And I'm not a joiner. I'm a loner. I'm such a loner, but I can't stand for other people to be lonely, and so I guess I'm a connector and maybe that's what friends and fiction has been too, because I got more out of it than anybody else, I think, and I miss it. So I hope I get to do another retreat, since we hope you do too. Yeah, thank you. I got to go in time. Was So fun. You did. You were there and we stood outside and I was like, how do you look? This good s...

...anyway all the days. Yeah, literally just said it tonight. Yes, well, that is annoying, on never ending annoying. Can we are so happy you came to talk to us and congratulations on this amazing book on the room. have been such an inspiration to me, all four of you. Pattie Henry, I'm telling you, sister, well known one another a long time. You are my big sister. That's great. You're amazing. All right, everybody out there, we will see you next week in hard hats as we celebrate the forest of vanishing stars. And what a night we previewing them. All Right, I have a happy drays. Everybody happy to years. Hay, two years, everyone, happy two years. Good night. Thank you for tuning in. You can join us every week on facebook or Youtube, where our live show airs on Wednesday nights at seven PM eastern time. Also, subscribe to our podcast and follow us on instagram. We're so glad you're here.

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