Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode 16 · 1 year ago

WB S1E16 Ron Block with Hank Phillippi Ryan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

WRITERS' BLOCK: Ron Block talks with Hank Phillippi Ryan about her incredible new thriller, Her Perfect Life

So I, you know, I raced down the block, slammed into a parking place, leapt out of the car, ran to the police officer and said you know I'm hank from channel to what's going on. This is my house and the police officer said yes, I know who you are and so did the guy who just broke into your house. Welcome to the Friends and fiction Writer's Block podcast for new york times, bestselling authors, one rock star librarian and endless stories joined Mary Kay Andrews, Kristn, Harmel, Kristyhristie Woodson Harvey and Patti Callahan Henry along with Ron Block as novelists, We are four longtime friends with 70 books between us and I am Ron block. Please join us for fascinating author interviews and insider talk about publishing and writing. If you love books and are curious about the writing world, you are in the right place. Welcome to the newest episode of Friends and fiction Writer's Block podcast. Today we are so excited to be talking to one of the preeminent writers of thrillers, hank Phillippi Ryan thrillers are defined as a genre of literature, film and television whose primary feature is that it induces strong feelings of excitement, anxiety, tension, suspense fear and other similar emotions in its readers or viewers. In other words, media that thrills the audience And our guest today gives a masterclass of this with every book that she publishes. So welcome to the podcast. Hank. It's so great to have you. It's so much fun to hear that introduction, thank you, I know you can't see me but I'm smiling, smiling, smiling, thank you so much. Yes, let me tell everybody a little bit about you because even I am terrifically impressed by your bio. So hank is the USA Today bestselling author of 13 novels of suspense. She has also won multiple prestigious awards for her crime fiction, including five Agatha's for Anthony's and the coveted mary Higgins Clark award, no slacker here. She's also at the on air investigative reporter for boston's WhDH Tv and has won 37. Yeah, I said it's 37 Emmys 14 Edward R. Murrow Awards and dozens of other honors for her groundbreaking journalism. National book reviews have called Hank A Master at Crafting, suspenseful mysteries and a superb and gifted storyteller. Her novels have been named best thrillers of the year by Library Journal, new york post Book bub Pop Sugar Real Simple magazine and others. Her 2019 book was the acclaimed legal thriller, the murder list, which won the Anthony Award for Best Novel of the Year. And that is a wonderful award to win. So congrats on that. Her last book, the 1st July was a chilling psychological stand alone. It garnered a start review from Publishers Weekly and was nominated for the Anthony Award for Best novel and the iconic mary Higgins Clark Award, her latest her Perfect Life, which just released on september the 14th received starred reviews from Kirkus N. P. W. Which called a superlative thriller. It's gathered so many pre pub accolades and recommendations from every corner of the literary community. Everyone's going to want to get their hands on this so hank once again, thank you and congratulations on all of this. It is so lovely to hear that. Thank you. You know, the intensity of the time before my new book is published, any author knows this, it's just when you were talking in the beginning about excitement and anxiety and suspense, you know, that's exactly how we feel when a book is about to be published. So, the approval from readers is just so paramount. Lee, wonderful if I can say that, it's so reassuring. You know, I sit here for a year writing this book and wonder is anyone going to like this...

...and I won't know, you know, until it's the time. So the time is now so I'm very reassured and delighted you've gotten so many star reviews for this, it's got to be fulfilling. It's got to be at least relieving some of that anxiety. Well, you know, when I find out about the well, yes, well, when I find out about the reviews, my editor sends them to me in an email and so with the two with the stars from Kirkus and Publishers Weekly this time, her email subject line said, are you sitting down with some exclamation marks and so I thought this is going to be a good thing and indeed it was. It certainly was. And before we started recording I did tell you how much I loved this book, I'm usually pretty good at figuring out what's going on at the end. But you got me on this one, You really got me on this one and people are really going to eat this one up. So as we get started, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about the plot of the book? Well, you know, it's interesting because when you talk about a thriller, when you talk about suspense, sometimes it is very difficult to talk about the plot of the book because that gives it away and I don't want to give anything away. So there was something on twitter, I think it was, it says, can you talk about your book in five words? So I thought sure In five words, her perfect life is sisters, betrayal, guilt, fame and revenge. So that's sort of the essence of it. Um it's about a reporter named lily Atwood, everyone knows lily Atwood and that maybe her biggest problem, she is a reporter who is so perfect that her fans have given her a hashtag perfect lily, but lily has one big dark secret and to keep that perfect life, all she has to do is protect that secret. But how do you keep a secret when you are always in the spotlight and when your family is in the spotlight to so lily Atwood begins to understand that the spotlight, maybe the most dangerous place of all those five words are perfect. What an excellent elevator pitch for the book. Exactly. Well, it's interesting because one of the things that is fascinating about writing about lily Atwood, this famous celebrated reporter is the idea of fame and how that seems like a wonderful thing. So lily chose the life of being in the spotlight, but her family didn't choose that her seven year old daughter Rowan didn't choose that. And one of the things I think will appeal to readers about this is that no matter what your lifestyle is, or no matter what your job is or your career or the way you live is, there's always this mother daughter relationship, this bond between mothers and daughters and this bond between sisters and that's one of the things I really wanted to explore in this book. How far would you go to protect your family? You do anything. How much risk would you take to protect your child? You do anything. And that's one of the things that I think uh connects us all in this book, the responsibility that we all have to our family. One of the things we love to talk about on here is the origin of stories like where do they come from? Where do the ideas come from? And I'm sure that you have a great one for this one, Do you mind talking about like where the original ideas came from? I agree, it's so fascinating to learn where stories came from and those little gems of ideas, those little core nuggets of ideas sort of percolate over the years. But I think I can trace her perfect life back to a moment when I was the anchor person, the weekend anchor and at the...

CBS affiliate in Atlanta and I had just gotten off the 11 o'clock news and I drove home to my little house near Ansley Park in Atlanta and I noticed that there were lots of police police cars on the block with blue lights flashing and they seem to be in front of my house. So I thought, okay, this is not good and you have to imagine it's midnight May evening night in Atlanta. So I, you know, I raced down the block, slammed into a parking place, leapt out of the car, ran to the police officer and said, you know, I'm hank from channel to what's going on, this is my house and the police officer said, yes, I know who you are and so did the guy who just broke into your house and I said, someone broke into my house, I think I said something like why, which was probably the silliest question ever. And the police officer said he knew you were live on television, so he knew you weren't home and that was just so chilling to me because I had never thought about the idea of my job being so public and in the spotlight so much that people knew where I was. That was one thing I was live on the air, I was live doing a news story on location, but also they knew where I wasn't and that was just haunting to me and that has never, that has never faded from my memory. So when I started writing her perfect life, I started thinking about the glare of the spotlight um and how when you're on television and my my reporter lily Atwood in her perfect life is much more famous soup early famous and everyone knows who she is. And I realized that everyone knows who lily Atwood is, but that maybe her problem, how do you keep a secret when the spotlight is always on you? And quickly, moreover, she chose the spotlight lily Atwood chose to be in the spotlight But her daughter, her seven year old daughter did not. So how does the spotlight affect our families to? Um and that's what I wanted to delve into that personal experience of having, you know, not being able to go anywhere without someone saying, oh, aren't you hank Phillippi Ryan and having to be that person and lily yet what has it, you know, amplified 1000 times? How does she deal with that? And what if someone doesn't like her so many people like her? But what if someone doesn't, what kind of vulnerability does that create and created? You did. It was so amazing and we'll come back right to the book. But the question right now is like how much of your work in journalism influences your writing because they are so interrelated but they also you have to be protective of people. You're so right Ron they are so interrelated. And it's a couple of ways. One thing my fiction is not my tv stories made into fiction but they are the emotional results of those tv stories. I mean I've I've wired myself with hidden cameras and gone undercover and in disguise and chase down criminals and confronted corrupt politicians. You know all those kinds of experiences. I've had people confessed to murder and convicted murderers tell me that they are not guilty. I've been behind the scenes at the airport in the basement of courthouses and visited prisons. And I you know I know how people look when they lie. So all those kinds of experiences where people generally don't have them. I take all of that authenticity and all those real life experiences that I've had as a reporter and put those into the books. Plus also I get to tell you what it's really like to be a reporter. The pressure and the high stakes and the responsibility. I can never make a mistake. A reporter can never make a mistake, never call...

...someone the wrong name never miscalculate, never get a fact wrong. You know they can't be one second late ever and so all that kind of pressure, what does that do to your life? And at every moment that could be disturbed, invaded, harmed. It's all I've been threatened and stalked and followed home and screamed at and pushed down and all those kinds of things. All that's what goes into the book. That's so fascinating. And just just keeping them separate yet so connected. It's just got to be like a balancing act. Well, it's interesting because in writing this great parallel occurred to me. I didn't start writing uh fiction Thrillers until I had been a television reporter for 30 years. So every day, essentially for 30 years I'd written a story with a beginning, middle and an end with a character who you cared about with a problem that needed to be solved With research and documents where the good guys win at the end and the bad guys get what's coming to them and in the end you get some justice and you get to change the world a little bit. And that is an investigative reporter and that is also a thriller writer. Exactly those same elements go into an investigative report and into writing fiction. The difference is of course that after 30 years of being a reporter when I started writing fiction, I wondered if I could make stuff up. I wondered if I could write, I wondered if I could create a whole world that seemed real but wasn't real. And that was one of my biggest questions that's got to be quite tricky to have done that. But do what you have and so beautifully. And you started talking a little bit about plotting and putting the book together. So how do you lay it all out? Do you have the ending in mind? You have all of the characters developed or or does it kind of come to you as you go? I love this because Ron you make it sound like there's some sort of plan that's involved in this. You know, they're the plan is to tell a good story just like as an investigative reporter. I don't want you to turn the channel when my story is on as a fiction writer. I don't want you to be able to put this book down. But I start with often a little germ of an idea, you know, how dangerous might the spotlight be and how do you keep a secret when the spotlight is always on you? I thought, okay, I need a reporter for that. How do I start? What is her secret? Who was trying to find out the secret because no one tells a secret without a reason. Right? So I thought, oh, no one tells a secret without a reason. What's the reason? And then I just typed chapter one and then I just see what happens and it's a tight road. You know, it's it's sort of this leap of faith you type chapter one you think, okay, 400 pages to go wonder what's going to be on those pages and that's what kind of gets me to the computer every day is. I think I wonder what's going to happen next. And the only way I can find out is to write the rest of the story and you're so wise because I think it does come from being a reporter um when I'm on the trail of a story, I don't know what the end will be right. I'm I'm in search of the story and that's exactly what I'm doing when I'm writing fiction. I'm in search of the story. So people say, wow, the twist in her perfect life, wow, the twist and then the twist and then the twist and twist. Well, I hope so. And I say, yeah, wasn't that a surprise? You know, who'd have thought that would happen? Because I surprised myself every time. And that is what Sue Grafton used to call the magic of writing, that we surprise ourselves every time. It's scary. It's risky. Um...

...it's you know, it's a little bit of naive because I think, well, all right, I can do this and a little bit of confidence because I think, okay, I've done it before for this time, it will work. So, you know, all of us who are writers are facing this blank page from time to time and we all have to deal with that and wrangle that and sort of trust the process that yet again, a wonderful, thrilling story will emerge. That's so true, so true. You alluded to a routine of sitting down every day. Do you have a set time where you sit down and say I'm going to do this. Many words were right for this many hours. I do you know, that doesn't mean I always do that, but I have a plan because I do think that one of the things that being a successful author, you to be a successful author, if that ever happens, you have to really write the book, there are lots of fun things that you can do that are more fun than doing the difficult task, the work of writing the book. But once I'm into the book I am riveted, I am obsessed with it. So I do make a time, usually in the afternoon say two o'clock where I say, I don't care what happens in the universe. I am sitting down at two o'clock and I am writing my Words for the day. Writing a book is a very daunting task, it seems oh my golly, how can I write a book? And what I try to do is allow myself to succeed every day instead of fail every day. I don't fail to write a book every day. No, I say I'm writing 1000 words and when I do I will succeed and at the end of those 1000 words, I think Yeah, I did my words for the day and I'm happy and that fuel of doing what I'm supposed to do, writing my darling book um pushes me to do with the same thing the next day. The joy that I get from having written makes me compelled to go right back to my desk the next day. That's great, small increments win the battle. Yes, it's so important because it's a terrifying thought to write a whole book, but it's a fun thought to write five pages. I can do that. It is. Um so I want to talk a little bit more generally about character because in a thriller, you know, you can write all of the different thrilling circumstances and the things that the characters go through, but without fully developed characters that really doesn't go far. So how do you develop your characters so well? And so beautiful. And you can even talk about some of the characters in her perfect life if you want to use as an example. It's fascinating question because one of the things that I love about writing and one of the things I love about the books that I love um is that I think I'm in the character's head, I'm solving their problems. I'm facing their dilemmas. I'm wondering what I would do in those situations and how what I would do compares to what the character would do now if the character makes a decision, what I need to do as an author is figure out why they did that. The burning question for all of my characters is what does my character want and how far will they go to get that in her perfect life? Um, lily wants success, lily wants fame, but she also is compelled to protect her daughter, her little daughter rowan, and she's compelled to protect this secret from her past and she's compelled to look for her missing sister. And all of those things drive her. So, I think what would be relatable engaging too, The readers of this book, we all care about our families, were all juggling our professional lives with our home lives or juggling the two sections of our lives. We all understand the power of guilt. That's an essence of this story. We may have a sister or siblings. What's our relationship with our sisters or siblings? All those things...

...that make lily be, who we would be if we were literally the same with CAssie, the missing sister. What happened to her? Is she dead? Is she not dead? What happened to her? And this as a reporter and her sister lily cannot give up on this search. And you know, how you feel when you are obsessed with something. And you cannot give up. And I tried to translate all of our emotions, the emotions that you and I and readers have every day. And and connect my characters with those lily and cassie and Greer, the producer is very, very career oriented and has her opinions about lily and would do anything for lily just ask her. She would. Um, but what is her real goal? So I take real emotions from real people and give my characters goals and motivations and then require them and here's the key require them to make a decision. And every time they have to make a decision that reveals their personality and it reveals their goal and then the book moves ahead. Yes. And their decisions are not always the best. As a reader, you're going like, don't do that, don't do that well, it's interesting because and that's my complete key here. The reason lily makes a decision, or Greer makes a decision. It's because they think it's the right thing to do for what they want. So how many times have each of us said, oh, I'm not sure that's the right thing to do, but I have to because I want this thing. Um, and that's what connects all of us, is that we rationalize and we convince ourselves that we are doing what we need to do to get what we want. Even though our friends are saying, Honey, are you sure that's what you want to do? And you say yes, it is, yes, it is. This is what I want to do because this is what I need to do to get what I want right? I have no other option. This is what I have to do. Um they're so deep to there, so relatable. Each of the characters are like we either ourselves or we know somebody like it. So you've done such a wonderful job of fully developed characters just wonderful. Well it's fun because I want you to, I want you to love lily and I want you to care about her and Greer and cassie and Rohan, I want them to be your new friends, just like you would care about someone that you love. My joy is to create characters who you will love and who you will root for and who you will care about. And when I see them come to life on the page when I'm writing and what they say just comes out. It's as if I'm not writing for them, it's as if I am them. It's sort of this um almost like method acting where I know that my posture when I write about lily is different than my posture when I write about career or even when I write about little Rohan, I become a, you know, a seven year old, a mischievous, smart seven year old and it's it's a joy. It's absolutely a dream come true. It is to read because little Roey as you call in the book and I love seeing the situations from her point of view are really pretty amazing and seeing the world from her eyes adds a depth that we might not have seen otherwise I think writing about a child being in a child's voice and head can remind us of some of the joys that we have as Children. And also some of the fears that we have as Children, and also sort of the way we look at the world about trust and about excitement and about what makes us happy. And also testing the boundaries with our parents, you know, pushes lily a little bit to see if she can get what she wants, right, just like every other character. And lily is a great mom. She really prides herself on taking care of her and she's...

...a little hungry and a little protective because back to the spotlight, what kind of a mom in that position in the spotlight wouldn't be fearful of how the edges of that bright light might affect her little daughter. Right. Right, so let's go on a little bit to the format of the book. Now you write an alternating characters, but they are not linear. There's sometimes it's it's a couple of this character and maybe one of this one then Back to this one. And but it really compels the story to move forward in a way that you don't know who to trust, which is part of being reading a good thriller is getting there. So how does how do you approach that and make that work? I'm applauding it. I'm applauding you here. Thank you so much. I know you can't see me, But um it's so nice that you said make that work. Thank you that structure of a novel, that way of having you be in the now of the story. Whether it's a now that takes place now or the now of before, if you understand what I mean. So, when when a reader, when the reader has to know something about the story that happened in the past, instead of having a flashback or someone say, oh, I remember the time X, y and Z, and having a lot of internal thought and a lot of internal dialogue. I like to take the reader to the now of them, if that makes it makes complete sense. Okay, so, here you are, at some point with CAssie, who when lily is seven years old, Cassie goes off to college now, lily doesn't know about that CAssie disappears. We the reader, you and the reader, we need to know something about CAssie because we need to care about her as much as lilly cares about her. And so we will care about her if we are in her head and we know about her, and we see gradually what happens to her. Just like watching tv you'll have something that takes place in the now and then the next episode will be before. And I think my readers are smart and I think my readers are wise and I think my readers are savvy and they can understand and embrace. Here's something I needed to know that happened before. Thank you, hank for telling me this and I understand how that structure works. And then in the end, of course, all those puzzle pieces start to fit together and all those strings start to braid together. And we see how the past informs the future. We see how what happens in the end happens inevitably. Of course, that's what's going to happen now, that we understand the story. It makes perfect sense, especially for this book because all of those little braids and threads, they do really come together and I kept going, wait, how did she do this? How does she do that? That's not going to happen. But it was really fun because as we were talking about earlier, you know, I don't know what's going to happen next. And as a writer, sometimes I have exactly the same feeling that you do, which is oh my golly, how am I going to handle this? And I and I let that kind of ruminate. And I imagine what I say to myself is what would really happen, What would someone really do and what might have really been? And there are a couple of parts in her perfect life where I was sitting here right here, where I'm talking to you alone in my study, where I stood up and applauded when I myself when I figured out how to twist and turn and make something be wonderful and surprising and unique. I honestly stood up and applauded because I was so proud of myself when those moments happen. Don't tell anyone that I did that. Oh no, I won't, I won't and don't tell anyone that I'm reading the book and every once in a while I'm going like, no, everybody around me is like, what are you talking about? I love that, that's my favorite, awesome. Yeah, Okay, so let's kind of switch a little bit too about your writing in general. You write both series and stand alone's...

...what are the challenges for you for each of those approaches? Yeah. Isn't that a fascinating question because they are so different. The challenges for writing a series and writing a stand alone are so different. I've written nine books in two series, the charlotte McNally mysteries, the first of which is prime time. Which one, the agatha for best first novel, then my second series, beginning with the other woman, the jane ryland thrillers, which one, the mary Higgins Clark Award in a series. The Good News for the writer is that, you know, your characters, you know, your main characters, you know, the setting, you know, their goals, you know, their job, you know what kind of a book it is, you have your world and your tone and the sensibility of how that book is going to be. But what the reader knows is that jane Ryland and the jane Ryland books jane Ryland is not going to die in book one because she's going to come back to book two and book three. So, the challenge for a writer of series is how do you keep it exciting? How do you keep the reader engaged when the stakes cannot be the death, life and death of the main character, because the main character is not going to die. So, the challenge for a writer of a series is to make something else in that story equally suspenseful to make the reader keep reading the pages and be on the journey with the main character. It's a different kind of point of view and a different kind of plot challenge, what adventure will jane Ryland have in the next book, and that's what the challenge of a series is, and that's and that's difficult because no matter what happens to jane, she's not going to die. And my smart readers know that, but in a stand alone, in a stand alone now, the writer has some power. Of course the difficulty is we need a new brand new character and a brand new setting in a brand new milieu in a brand new problem and brand new goals and brand new obstacles and brand new terrors, but but anything can happen and you say to the reader, watch this because you are going to be surprised, anybody can be good, anybody can start out good and turn into being bad, anybody can start out bad and turn into being good. Anyone can lie, anyone can be unreliable and anyone can die. Anyone can die and anyone can be guilty. So the glory of a stand alone is that as an author, I can just pull the rug out from under you and say you think, you know what's going to happen next Like in her perfect life, you think, you know what's going to happen next? But you don't know and that sort of power, that sort of bandwidth is really exciting for me. So two different challenges to different types of challenges. Equally fun to write. I love your clarity on each because I, I've spoken with other writers who were like, oh, I don't know. But I just love the clarity of the two and the challenges are spot on for the reader to because we know we can trust that the characters in a series are going to continue and you have to keep the pace up for a long time. But in the standard loans, Yeah, nothing. You don't know what's coming in a stand alone. You hit high gear really fast and then it gets higher and higher and higher in a series. You think, oh, here I am with charlie McNally. Again, here I am with jake and jane Again, I wonder what will happen to us. So it's a different reading experience as well. Absolutely, Absolutely. So can you tell us a few of the either authors or books or both that influenced your writing early books that were in your life that influenced you. Yeah. You know it's interesting to think about that. I grew up in really rural indiana so rural that you couldn't see another house from our house and my sister and I used to ride our ponies to the library and take books out of the library. We'd fill our saddlebags with books and then...

...read up in the hay loft of the barn behind our house. Um and I was such a geeky, nerdy little girl. Oh my God, you can't believe it. I had no friends except for the characters in books and I started with nancy drew as we all did. But then you know I read Sherlock Holmes and I thought now this is a story, this is a story. And I began to learn about character and I began to learn about a lot and I began to learn about storytelling and then I read agatha Christie, I remember reading, I remember reading so clearly Murder on the orient express Up in the Hayloft I think I was 12. And I remember thinking wait a minute, how did she do that? And I went back to the beginning and I read the book again and I started to sort of deconstruct all the clues that she had left and that ending is gorgeous. It is not only gorgeous because it's surprising but it's gorgeous because eric you'll borrow doesn't do what you'd expect him to do. It's also emotional and moral, I wouldn't I'm not going to give away the ending if you don't know it. But that was a life changing book from a Murder on the orient express. And then I read all the wonderful golden age authors, Nyo Marsh and Josephine Tey and Marjorie Allen Hammond Dorothy Sayers, I loved that kind of storytelling, but I moved through mystery then when I was in high school I read all the thrillers fail Safe and seven days in May and on the beach and all those cold war thrillers that I loved and then later Day of the Jackal, you know, I love that. And then moving into my real life as a writer, Silence of the lambs, you know, that's a perfect book, it is a perfect book. And then for writing for a writerly books, Edith Wharton, I majored in Shakespeare in college. So that idea of storytelling and suspense and characterization and motivation. So many of Shakespeare's plays or murder mysteries, aren't they? And then Edith Wharton I loved Edith Wharton for her social commentary and that wonderful dialogue is incredible. And Hunter? S Thompson when I worked at Rolling Stone magazine in the seventies, I worked with Hunter? S Thompson a lot and he taught me how to just go for it, you know, just write it just do it, just put that on the page, you can always fix it later. So Hunter Thompson taught me To be brave. So those are kind of the influences that Stephen King then of course. And my final thing is Stephen King, you know in the 80s, I was a reporter in Atlanta and don't tell this either. You're making me say all these kinds of things that I haven't told. I called in sick when I wasn't sick because I was reading the stand and I thought I am not going, I cannot wait to see what happens in this book. Um, and he is such a master storyteller uh that he had me riveted and every single thing I read of his now is again is just perfect storytelling. Give up your weekend because of the Stand might have been a week, but it's such great books, such great history of reading in your life. So I want to also talk about how much you give other people because I know that you are such a supporter of other writers and whether they're long term or whether the debut, but you are showing it recently on your first chapter fund. I think it's instagram and facebook with Hannah Mckinnon And you're also doing now 90 mysteries on a mighty blaze with that wonderful group of people. So what does all that mean to you? And I'll fulfilling is that for you, it's the most fun. It is absolutely so rewarding in every way. You know, I was past President of National Sisters in Crime and we came up with a motto for National Sisters in Crime, which is you write alone, but you're not alone and that is sort of the essence of what we all do as a community of authors. There's always...

...another book. I want you to love my books, I want you to read my books, but after you read my books, look at all these wonderful other books you need to know about. And it's been one of the joys of my life to be able to introduce readers to other people's books. That discovery ability now, especially in the crazy, hideous covid times, how do we know what books we might want to read? So Hannah mary Mckinnon and I every Tuesday and thursday at 12 30 et on instagram and facebook, read the first chapter of a new authors book out loud, it may be your favorite author, someone you've read a million times, it may be a brand new author. We love debuts, we love the veteran, wonderful favorite bestselling authors, you never know what you're going to get on first chapter fund. And that's a joy of course a mighty blaze. Asked me to be the interviewer for a mighty mystery. So every Tuesday at four, I interview a wonderful authors sometimes debuts, sometimes incredibly famous best selling authors, Anthony Horowitz is coming and lisa Unger is coming and really wonderful author. So that's also great again, another way for you to discover a new book? And Karen Dion and I do the back room, which is twice a month, a panel of four authors who we have. Uh I think the next one coming up is me as a matter of fact with tet Garretson, PJ vernon and Jeffery Deaver and the audience gets to go into breakout rooms and talk to each of us individually because Karen and I were concerned that in the pandemic We missed that face to face and we were trying to figure out how to have a face to face event where readers and authors could really connect one on one, essentially, and that's the back room. So yeah, and in all that, I'm supposed to be writing my book, which is due October the 6th. So we'll see how that goes. And your work in journalism, you know, change the hats all the time. Well, it's a jungle, I have to admit to you, but what a joy. And you know, I think one of the things I've learned about this is that we have to go for it. We have to be a little brave. You think about little Rohan how brave she is and why do we give up as adults, Why do we give up that joy? Why do we give up that bravery? This is something that I really try to embrace with my fabulous, fantastic, wonderful, beloved readers and my dear dear author friends, it's so marvelous to be able to connect them. It's wonderful. So finally, where can our listeners find you online way too often. I'm on instagram at Hank P Ryan and twitter at hank P Ryan and facebook easily. And the back room and first chapter fund and a mighty blaze easiest. Maybe just go to my website hank Phillippi Ryan dot com where you can find out everything about everything. And if you click on contact on my website, that email comes right to me. There's no middle person. So I will see it instantly. Wonderful. That's really kind of you to be so accessible to people. It's not always the case. Well we write alone, but we're not alone and part of my life, a major part of my life is connecting with readers and hoping that they love her perfect life, which I'm very, very excited and thrilled about and that we continue our relationship. Yes. Yes, definitely. Well, a huge thank you for joining me today. Hank. It's it's been such an honor to speak with. You have been a big fan for so long and your booking career are off the charts and you just keep you keep delivering and keeping readers tied to the page. So you've enriched their lives and my life with everything. You do huge success for her perfect life. I hope it's the best best seller that you've had so far crossing fingers. Thank you. I'm going to record what you just said and play it over and over and over. Please do. And thank you Ron. And Friends in fiction for having...

...me here today. It has been a joy to talk with you. Friends in fiction is unbelievably delightfully fantastic. I mean talk about people who are giving back to their community so I am honored to be with you all today. Yes, it's such a pleasure to have you. And thank you to our listeners. Please consider purchasing her Perfect life or any of the latest from the fab five at the newly created Friends and fiction bookshop page on bookshop dot org. It helps local booksellers nationwide. This podcast would not be possible without your support of it. Along with the amazing Friends and fiction members you are all treasured. Please be sure to tell a friend to join in. Thank you for tuning in to the Friends and Fiction Writer's Block podcast. Please be sure to subscribe rate and review on your favorite podcast platform, tune in every friday for another episode and you can also join us every week on facebook or Youtube where our live Friends and fiction show Airs at seven p.m. Eastern Standard time. We are so glad you're here.

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