Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 1 month ago

Friends & Fiction with Julie Clark & Erica Ferencik + Karen Cleveland on the after show

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s edge-of-your-seat time! We’re in for a thrilling episode as we talk to three female thriller writers—Julie Clark, Erica Ferencik, and Karen Cleveland.Julie Clark is the New York Times and #1 internationally bestselling author of The Last Flight, which has been translated into more than 20 languages, and the 2018 debut novel, The Ones We Choose, which has been optioned for television by Lionsgate. She joins us to discuss THE LIES I TELL, a twisted con-woman thriller about two women out for revenge―or is it justice? Called "riveting" by Laura Dave and "a knockout" by Mary Kubica, the book is hot off the presses and we can’t wait to hear all about it. There is nowhere on earth award-winning author Erica Ferencik won’t go to take you out of your head and into the great wild world. Her adventure novels feature women who brave not only internal struggles but face extreme challenges in their environment: remote forests, steaming jungles, and desolated icescapes. She joins us to talk about this spring’s Arctic-set GIRL IN ICE, which was a New York Times Editors’ Choice, an Indie Next Pick, and an Amazon Editors’ Pick that got starred reviews in Booklist, Publishers Weekly, and Book Page.On the after show, we will give a warm F&F welcome to returning guest, former CIA counterterrorism analyst, New York Times bestselling author, and sister of our own Kristin Harmel, Karen Cleveland. Karen joins us to preview her forthcoming domestic thriller, THE NEW NEIGHBOR, which Ballantine will publish on July 26th.

Welcome to friends and fiction. For New York Times best selling authors endless stories, novelists Mary Kay, Andrews, Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callaghan Henry are for longtime friends with more than seventy published books between them. Together they host friends and fiction with author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing. To highlight and support independent book stores. They discussed the books they've written, the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hi everybody, it's Wednesday and that means we're right here with you for friends and fiction. We have an amazing evening ahead of us and since Christie and Patti are taken a little short Bak, we we're excited to have a couple of stands stand in, and these faces should be familiar. By the way. I'm my face tould be familiar to I'm Mary Kane. Hi Am Christin Harmel, I'm Meg Walker, the managing director of friends and fiction, and I am Ron Block, the host of the friends and fiction writers block podcast and also a rock star library and coming to US live from Cleveland, Ohio, Leaven Ohio, Little Rock. This is friends and fiction for New York Times Best Selling Authors and moss stories to support indie bookstores, authors and Librarians. Ron Tonight we're talking with Julie Clark and Erica phrensik and Karen Cleveland will join us for afterwards and we can't wait to start talk at to you about these intriguing authors and their books. But first we have to take time to congratulate our girl, Mary Alice Monroe and her CO author Angela May. We just found out they hit number three on the New York Time Children's Book Best Seller List for their new middle grade novel search for treasure. We're so excited and seeking folks. I know it's so great for them. And, speaking of folks, were excited about we're so grateful for your over the top amazing response to our new behind the book partnership with our friends at fable, a free APP for your phone or tablet with loads of incredible book clubs to join. If you haven't joined our premium club there. It is full of behind the scenes info you will not get anywhere else. It's five dollars a month. Or there are annual membership options to that allow you access to all of the premium clubs. So visit fablecom friends and fiction to sign up today. We will be announcing our switch to a brand new book next week, which were excited about. But in the meantime you still have time to jump into the conversation about Mary Kays the whole records. And I swear there's a bomb that's about to go up. It's because it's thriller night, you guys. That's right. I don't know. It sounds like it's coming from my house. It's coming from inside the house, inside the house. Look at US setting the stage with sound effects for today, and we're just going right mile. Well, and you've heard that. The whole friends and fiction Ganger on the road together. Right. We have a double header in July on the Delaware Shore. First we have an evening ticketed event on Wednesday July twenty if with Bethany beach books, and then a ticketed luncheon event on Thursday July twenty one with brows about books at the Rohobath Country Club and Rohobeth beach. We hope you can join us for the big friends and fiction latch celebration. We are so excited for the opportunity to see so many of you in person. You can find the link underpin posts on the facebook page or on either the Bethany beach books and brows about books websites. That's great, and don't forget, as you know, we continue to encourage you all to support independent booksellers when and where you can, and one way to do that is to visit our own friends and fiction bookshop Dotorg page, where you can find Julie's books, Erica's books and Karen's books and books by the Fab four and all of our past guests at a discount. Also, each week we're going to give you a chance out there to ask US anything. If you have a question you'd like the four of us to answer or a topic you want us to discuss, we are all ears. In fact, feel free to drop the questions in the comments now for a future weeks. We want to hear from you, and you know we got. We've gotten so many great questions. I had a time choosing one this week, but this one seemed fun. Arlene Sax Wilder wants to know if you could live anywhere in the world other than where you live right now. Where would you go meg your first up? Who other than where I live right now? That I would just say. I would say Hawaii. David I went to buy on our honeymoon and we're dying to go back sometime. That's that was long time ago, by the way. That was not a recent trip. There's the north shore of Oahu or the big surfing beaches are there's amazing food and we always...

...dreamed of like getting a little shock on the beach and just chilling out. So that's right. Okay, Kristen, what about I? Already we already know what you're going to say, but go ahead and say. Yeah, what do you think? It's Paris. Obviously it's Paris. I mean I keep returning to it in my fiction. Even when I say, you know, maybe I should write about somewhere else, I write about somewhere else and then with the next book I always come back to Paris. So yeah, I was an easy one. How about you read run? Well, I don't ever like to be too far away from Kristen, so I am just dreaming about Bill Boo, Spain, which is like seventy five miles from the French border and they're just they're just up and coming with an arts community and they have a Gougenheim museum there in the food is fantastic. It's not far from San Sebastian, just centrally located. It anywhere I'm ready to go. So that's awesome. We can visit each other by train. Ron, that's right, good little that's like a travel of tonight. You know, I've only been to Tuscany once, but it made such an impression on us, the food, the wine, the people, the wine, the Pasta. Maybe I would, you know, move it over to the Amalfi coast, though, and I could have that just sparkling turquoise water. Yes, and not about where we want to live. Let's welcome our guest for the evening, Julie Clark, and Eric Farron sick, and we're going to start with Julie Cause we're doing alphabetical order and Julie's school teacher, so I think that's appropriate. Well, lies I tell released yesterday she is the New York Times best selling author of the last flight and the ones we choose. Her novel, the last flight, earn star reviews from Kirk has publishers, weekly and Library Journal. Additionally, her debut novel, the ones we choose, which was published in two thousand and eighteen, has been optioned for television by Lionsgate. Julie lives in Los Angeles with her two sons and a golden doodle with poor impulse control. I want video. Yes, okay, we already know. Her new novel, the lies I tell, was just released yesterday. This book snagged my attention with the first sentence and I could not put it down until the last page, and I think that Julie's going to owe me some sleep hours for this. Anyway, Allen, can you bring Julie only? Thank you. Thanks so much for having it's our entire pleasure. First, we would love it if you would tell us, give us the elevator picture, about the lies I tell. Well, all so, the lies I tell is a story of Meg Williams, a female con artist who travels the country under assumed names, creating elaborate backstories to back up whatever lies she's telling. And she's been traveling around doing these cons for probably ten years with a sole purpose of building her skill set so that she can come back to Los Angeles and con the man who she believes destroyed her life ten years ago, but what she doesn't know is that there's a woman in Los Angeles who's waiting for her to return, and investigative reporter named Cat Roberts, and cat was collateral damage on a con that meg pulled a long time ago and cat has been waiting to get her revenge. And so it's a story of justice and revenge. It's cat and mouse. You're not really sure who's the cat who's the mouse, but hopefully, hopefully, by the time you finish it you'll know. I love that. Okay, so, Julie, your book has dual points of year. You were just telling us about meg and cat. I'm always interested in character arcs that because I think that, especially in books like this that are so driven by those characters and by the journey the characters are on, the ARC that they take in terms of who they develop into is so interesting. So can you talk to us a little bit about how these in change over the course of the book and how that impacts the plot? I can't a little bit, but I don't want to tell too much out spoilers. Yes, but I will say that one of the things that's really important to me that I kind of carried over. My first book was a women's fiction book and then I jumped into the thriller lane, but I kind of carried from the women's fiction lane that idea, that that there needs to be an emotional arc and not just a plot arc. That's really, really important to me. And you get that emotional arc by getting your characters to change and grow and learn something. And I always, always, always start with what is my character wants and then I stop and think, okay, then what does my character need? And that is always, always two different things. They need to be in and so that's where the where their want in the need comes into conflict. That's that's where the story lives.

I think that that's beautifully said. Yeah, well, I read the decision to create mag was born from your fascination with true crime podcast, and I mean who isn't fascinated with true crime? And it was really on our stories at the moment. I devoured inventing Anna as the half the world and the two and then I also really good, audible reason, I don't know if you've listened to it, called the Mirand up session, about a female con artist. Know, and I just thought I did all the research on female that worry session called the Miranda Obsession, and it was produced and I'm starring the woman's whose name I can't remember, who plays the marvelous with Masal. Oh, yeah, yeah, Rachel, the Voice of Miranda. But this woman comes like all these famous rock stars and movie moguls and stuff. That's a true story based on this woman in the s any so I'd love to hear your take on why are we also obsessed not only with true crime but specifically with an artists? Like what draws us to these stories? Do you think? I don't know. I mean I am always really interested to approach it from well, how did they? How did they? How do people fall for it? Right? And so I did some research into kind of the psychology of con artists and I actually read this really helpful book called the confidence game by Maria Conakova, and it's all about the psychology of how con Artists Work and how do they. It's why it that did subtitle is why we fall for it every time. And, sorry, why we fall for it every time, and so I feel like that's important for my book because I wanted to have to con artists who were very much trying to infill trade people's lives, but not in a way, not in a way that's like overt and hard hitting. Right. And so meg, my main character. She uses social media a lot to sort of yes, I don't Oh, sorry, I'm not talking about me. No, Miranda, I know, and she finds her targets through social media, but she doesn't target just anybody, I mean meg. Meg is the kind of character who's doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, and that is really important to me. I love those characters that live in that morally gray area and I I wanted to write somebody that lived there. So I wanted the reader to be feeling like meg is doing the wrong thing and yet we understand why she's doing it. And it kind of goes back to Christian's question about character, is that if you understand sort of where people have come from and what they're their background is, then you have a better understanding of why they're making the choices they're making, even if they're making really bad choices, you understand it and you're like, well, I wouldn't do it myself. I'm kind of glad she is because I'd like to see how this works out you know, and so and so I think with con artists in particular, they're really fun to write because they're very enigmatic and engaging and dynamic and everybody who spends time around a con artist get sucked into it. And so my main character can't, even though she knows who make is. She knows what meg does. She does not sure what meg is doing right now now, but she knows that Mega's a con artist. She finds herself falling under makes spell as well. At times she has to catch herself and remind herself she's loves make stories in the way that meg tells things that happen and cats like. She knows that they're all lies. She knows that none of it is true, and yet she still finds her completely engaging and that was really, really fun to write. I bet. I mean so compelled. She's so compelling because she's I mean, I don't want to give too much away, but she you know, these people are bad that she's going after, and you end up, even though she's a bad guy too, you really do root for her in a way. Yes, and you know, because she's she does target very specific types of people. She's not somebody that's going to take, you know, the Little Old Lady at the grocery store and, you know, move in and squatted her house and then you can't get her out right like. That's not those are not the people that make targets. Make targets powerful men and generally corrupt men, and so she feels that, you know, it's sort of balances the scales a little bit in the universe, you know. Yeah, Vgelanni, justice kind of little bit. Yeah, yeah, we're all let's talk about right, Cathy, Mary Kay, and you're in the video that made the book. You called it Robin us, because I love it.

Yeah, rum and, you know, one thing I like about it is I can see readers saying to themselves, I could be that smart. Or No, no, I totally could not. Right, right, exactly. But let's talk about cat the reporter. You know, I'm a washed up newspaper reporter and Kristen is too. I Love Pat's Grit, but what I love even better was her vulnerability. Yeah, and and you peeled those layers back so beautifully that I knew that at the core there was a crack. But I'm wondering what made you decide to make Scott her seemingly good guy. Oh Spoil. Okay, okay, how am I gonna Parse this question? I think that I think you want to talk about Scott. So I'm an interrupt about stop. Yeah, Scott is Scott, you know, and she's very open about her relationship with Scott. Scott's a good guy and he's he's a police officer, he's actually a fraud detective and he and he knows a lot about the world in which meg moves, and so he offers cat a lot of advice about how to, you know, what she needs to be careful of. He tells her, you know, you need to lock this down, you need to lock that down, and he's really helpful. But he all so has a gambling addiction and he's in recovery. And Scott, you know, Scott's a flawed person and the flawed character, but he's a good he's a good man. And so cat really, cat really starts to struggle because Scott, as a lot of men do, Scott, thinks that he knows more than cat about this because it's his area of expertise, it's his it's his strength. This is what he knows. And yet cat's the one spending day in and day out with meg, and so again it's that. It's that, you know, there's a little bit of a little bit of Man's blaining going on there where, you know, cat wants to say, like, you know, I do have instincts of my own. I do. I do have a good gut sense of like, who this woman is in what she's doing. The reader may or may not agree with cat's instincts, though, and I think that, you know, it's also commentary, I think, on women and are instincts and how often we're told to ignore them. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I thought those were such interesting choices that you may and that you that you colored Scott in tones of gray. Yes, yes, I mean I think all of us are colored in tones of gray. Right. Like me, I'm in tones of blue. I'm a I like duels. To the point of it, novel is entering at the moment when stuff happen, you know, when people are not being their best selves, they're not making their best choices. You know, there is no interesting novel about my life where everything is going well, you know, and so I think that we have all had those periods in our life where things are not going well or we are dating the wrong guy or we are married to the wrong guy or we're doing things that we are not really proud of, and like that's the entry point of a novel, you know, that's where you start. Wow, that's good stuff, is right. So you talked a little bit about your research in learning about the art of the con but I was intrigued by all of the things that all the skills that make possessed, and I won't we do what they are because you learned about them in the in the book. But did researching all of that and kind of getting into her head, did that make you more weary of people around you? For paranoid like by NY, I'm a very paranoid person. I have had this friend requesting in my inbox for probably three months now and I keep asking other friends like who is this person? Who is this person? We have mutual friends, and I won't, I won't accept I don't know who this person is. I am I'll delete it. I'm sorry, I'll tin and very paranoid. Brought us, not you with Keanu Reeves. Yeah, that's it's not. Yeah, badly now. But yeah, I'm a very, very paranoid person and you know, I play this game with my son all the time. We're driving around and, you know, traffic, we're sitting in traffic and, you know, I look at the car next to us and I'm like, what do you think she's got in her trunk? You know, and love it. Oh and and we we see the same runner every day when we're on our way to school and we've named her. Her name is Shannon. She has orange shoes and she has a job, she's got a dog, you know, like we just,...

I just it's just the way. It's the way my brain works, you know. I yeah, my husband went out fishing with a fishing god down an apple a Chicola this Friday and he found somebody refer the guy to him and he talked to him on the phone but he never met him, and so I drove him to the marina to get picked up and I walked out and I'm like, I need to talk to you and you I need to take a picture of your boat with them, because if he doesn't come back, I need to know the guy looks like and ghost lady. I want to come back as bad as he does. So that's what thirty years of writing about murder will do for you. Yeah, that's funny exactly. Oh my God, how do you how do you both sleep at night? That I would be like, freaking. Yeah's my brain off friends reruns. Yes, some of the dtail you wrote into the book about some of the real estate comes. I was thinking, like this is my worst nightmare, like, yeah, it's an area you're not savvy about. Like I wouldn't. I would never in a million years dream there was a way to set up like a fake s Crowke out and that you were. I mean, so how did you how did you research all that? Do you have any expertise in that area or did you have great carefully, very carefully? I come from a real estate family. My mom sold real estate for a very long time, so I kind of grew up with the terminology and understanding how transactions work and what s grow is and how escrow is paid. I mean here in California. I think it's different in every state. Right like three California you don't need an attorney to be buying and selling real estate, but I know in other states you need to have a real estate attorney as a part of the transaction. So it's one of the reasons why I set it here in Los Angeles because I was very, very comfortable with how it works here in La I have a good friend. He's a current real estate agent now, and so she read the book and I ran everything by her, you know, and a lot of it, too, is just creating the characters that you need to be in that situation. And so so meg is working with the very specific demographic and the demographic that she's working with, which is very typical here in Los Angeles, are high high end buyers and these are, you know, we're talking celebrities, we're talking very, very, very wealthy people, entertainment industry people who aren't necessarily engaged in the APP Zillo right, like they don't know what it is. And you know, they have this what they have an agent for, you know, the neat one that tells them what properties are priced at. And so when you have a situation like that, you can there's a lot of there's a lot of I think in anything. Actually it's in real estate and anything, when you abdicate your control to somebody else, whether it's your real estate agent or your accountant or Your Business Manager, when you adducate that control, there's all kinds of funny business that can go on. Oh my gosh, and now I'm not going to sleep at night thinking about well, authenticity, praise. My husband is a realtor and and you had it just right, because you know, Ohio, here we don't need an interurney either. Yeah, but I sat down afterwards. I went, okay, I got to figured out. Here's how we're going to make money. I just wo is that. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to have fake story counts and my mom will be moving to be bill bill boo. How do I say? I'll be that? I'll be there real soon. There for that Hoss, like speaing exactly. But Rod, I'm just checking. You do realize this isn't a private chat, right, you just and now your attention intens Oh my God. All right, Julie, before we let you go, we would love it if you could share a writing tip with us, especially since you're a school teacher. We know I teach us. It's take us today. I'm good. I've been giving this one out left and right and I couldn't remember who said it, but I finally found the book where I found it. So I found this writing advice in this book called the scene book by Sandrasco Field, and I bought this one I first started writing, like when I first started really writing seriously for publication, and in the introduction she had this advice for for aspiring writers. She said basically, in order in order to do this job, you have to do two things. Number One, you have to think of yourself as a worker and number two, you have to show up at the job. And that's it. That's all you have to do. Think of yourself as a worker and show up at the job every day. I love that. That's Bryant. I thought so. It was on my computer for the entire you know, for the entirety of everybody out there. Put on your Yoga Pants and get busy. Yeah, but truly, you actually have a full time job. So yeah, Great. I teach fos grade and so I like up very, very early in the morning and write from about three forty five to six and then, who and then...

I get my kids up and we are off to school and, you know, and then, and then I get really resentful when I have writing work to do in the afternoon. It feels like homework right like you know. So I try I try to get everything done in the morning and that's my writing time and I feel like that's my best time. Nobody wants anything from me, nobody's interrupting me, nobody needs anything, and I think that the best words come for me at that time of day. My rain is a little bit softer, I can be a little bit more relaxed about it and and I also believe that, you know, not writing every day, you know, or writing about my writing, but not writing my writing is also an important kind of tool in my toolbox to kind of keep my brain loose and flowing. You know. Yes, those are all great tips. Joy. We hate to let you go because there's so much more we want to ask you, but maybe our viewers will leave questions on the friends and fiction page and I would have time come back and answer some of those questions. I would be happy to. Thanks so much. We great this time night. Great up my friend request. She's already out. She knows you're going to combat run. She knew it. You're yeah, airport to me. All right. Hope everyone will check Juliet on my she's going on a big torch. Got Lots of dates her website right, and and her and it's her pub week. It's the most important week in the life of a book. For any author, the most important week is that first week. So get that book all right. Now let's introduce our second guest for the night, Erica forensick. So, Erica forensic is an award winning author of adventure novels which feature women who brave not only internal struggles but also face challenges in their environment, such as remote for us, which does that sound familiar right? I like writing about remote for us, to steaming jungles, which I have not written about, and desolate I scates, who's right. Well, Eric has been writing for thirty five years, with her work taking the forms of novels, short stories, essays, ghostwriting and ten years of stand up and sketch comedy. I love this whole combination, as well as dozens of screenplays and some filmmaking to research her novels, including the river at night and into the jungle. Erica has ventured deep into the remote forest of the Aleaghash territory in northern Maine. She's rafted the Amazon River and the jungles of Peru and explored the desolate fiords of Greenland. I'm tired. Yeah, all that rowing is new thriller girl and I was released earlier this year in March Erica. Welcome, thank you. Thank you. All right. You think you're tired. Oh my God, I'm exhausted bad, I bet. I bet you are. I mean, first of all, this cover. I was telling you earlier. You know it's ninety eight degrees in Atlanta where I live, and I just feel like I could put this like to my forehead and pull down. I highly recommend them. Thank you so much for that. Okay, lots of questions, but first would you give us the elevator pitch or the summary of what the book is about? Of course, of course. So girl and Ice Puling Nice is about an American linguist named Val who is tasked to go to an extremely remote climate research center off the coast of Greenland where a girl has been found in a glacier. She's thought out alive, speaking a language no one understands. Six months before the novel begins, Val's twin brother Andy, who was a climate scientist at this very remote climate research center, ventures out fifty degrees below zero and freezes to death. Now Val is incredibly upset and and grief stricken. But she doesn't know if he has, if and he's taken his own life, or there was, if there was foul play up north. And the story begins when Vale, the linguist, gets an email from another guy, another climate scientist, who was up there in this very remote location. Whyat to her, telling her about this girl, telling her we found this girl. She's thought out a live we don't know how, you don't know why, and you, being the the specialist and Dead Nordic language is, have to come up here and tell us what she's saying. Now, VAL has her own anxieties. So she has a pretty severe anxiety disorder. In fact, she only feels comfortable in a few places in her life. So at first she says no, but...

...there's a little clip of the girl speaking in this email. She plays it and she hears this girl's voice. She doesn't understand a word the girl says, but she hears fear and terror and just please help me, this voice. And so val has to step out of her comfort zone. Or she doesn't have to, but she steps out of her comfort zone and she does venture to Greenland not only try to understand this girl but also what happened to her. Brother. So she steps into another world in order to do that. Yeah, you know, Valerie, your protagonist of girl and ice, as you mentioned, she suffered from really crippling anxiety. Yeah, and literally stuck in ice, almost in a separating world of her own making. Now my question is, how is someone like you? You seem to be fearless about your travel. I mean I'm reading about you being in the Amazon with N Conda's like bringing over to my hair. Oh so how? I mean you seem to be pretty fearless on paper. How does someone like you understand someone like that and how do we talked earlier with Julie about character art and how that changes over the course of the plot. Well, I think we're all pretty terrified. I know I am. I mean I wake up scared every morning I might gonna be able to do all the things I need to do. Am I going to be able to write when they need to write, or or things like that. You know, I think as as authors, we take little parts of ourselves that that exist in some form and, you know, amplify them or tweak them in a way so that we can find find the character that we're trying to create. I I'm not that fearful of a person. That said I was. That's a lie. I was here lying line. was terrified before I went to the Amazon because, I mean, have you read about what can kill you? Yeah, it's I mean ter yes, the insects want to kill you. Everything wants to kill you and eat you, I mean you. And so, you know, for all my books, I read so much about I must have read, you know, twenty five books about the Amazon, terrifying myself. You know, we're doubt by candace Millard. I mean just they'll just curl your hair. So I was like, I almost didn't get on the plane. And and I think fear is really fascinating. I mean I had to break down my fear. I had to say, okay, what what's the first step? Okay, the first step is you're gonna fly of Miami. What Could Happen Miami? Okay, check. You know. The next one is, you know, fly to Lima, Peru. Okay, and so I had to like take it like that and I also had to think, okay, well, you know, not everyone is dead in Peru Erica. It's not like you know they're all dead. And and so so you're into put you or entering another society. Seeing was true for the Arctics, entering another world, and they what I had to do to survive. You know that, like what I had to do to survive my research, was understand the world that I was entering and how just survived that. And I mean I guess quickly. You know, for the jungle, I was walking with my guide and it was the first couple days that I was with him and I was talking, talking, talking, as I took a lot, you know, and I was talking loud, like an American, because we talked aloud and we were in the jungle, you know, and I was keeping back from him a little bit and he's he came up to me native proving guys, sweetheart, he's like, Erica, shut up. I mean he didn't really know how to say it nicely. So I said what you body? No, I didn't, and he said. I said why? And he said because I'm listening, and I said, well, what are you listening for? You said, well, I mean, you know, this guy could hear herds of monkeys from two miles away. You know what kind they were, he knew how many they were. You know, fast we're coming toward us. He could hear with his feet. He knew there's a certain kind of peccury. It's kind of pig the travels and herds and they're quite vicious and they come quite quickly. And and one day he he said, okay, we need to find shelter immediately because he had heard with his feet.

This's heard of peckury coming. Wow, you have to take sulter. There these massive trees, they're called Lucuona trees. Out of their twenty feet, the forty feet around. So I was like, why do we have to do that? We did that and we hid in one of these massive root systems as this heard of peckury just float around us. Oh Gosh, he's so I guess what I'm talking about with fear. I think we all have to deal with fear every day and I think it's really instructive. What I've learned about fear is it's really good to analyze it and ask yourself, what am I really afraid of? You know what am I? What am I really right of? A staid this general anxiety that we I just think that that's instructive. So I kind of learned that about fear and dealing with my own fear, but specifically from Valve for girl and ice. I needed to I wanted her to have a certain kind of anxiety, not agoraphobic per se, but really fearful of stepping out of her comfort zone. So that was a really long answer. Your radiancer. Are you kidding? No one's ever talked to that was amazing. Yeah, hear on, tired. I'm terrified of going. That's my gift. Exhausting. Yeah, terrifying. Yeah, and to feel like a low level sense of dread all the time. Good, that'll come, that'll come. Yeah, layer, like, why do I feel like so weird? We long becury. It's coming on way. We've all across Karu. The jungles officers, where we would like to guess? Yes, off the list. Why? Tuscany word wine? Could you why? And BELBOA, belosolutely. All right, so bad about your research. So what has been the scariest thing that you've experienced new travels and and what? What methods did you use to sort of overcome those fears, because you have really done some hugely adventurous things to research and writing. There are a lot of well, I did I just you know, I think I really did use that concept of like let's Parse it, let's purse, you know what really happened or what's so I did a lot of just put it this way, I did a lot of looking at my guides to see their spatial expressions and to sort of gage what was going on, but by their level of terror. And there I mean, you know, the only time I saw my Peruvian guide frightened, it was like during this it was during a night canoe ride through the floating forest, which is like this terrifying place where you know this. So you know, I don't know if you know this, but in South America and the Amazon, the river rises forty feet every year, knowing and so everything is built on stilts and it's very bizarre. So they Amazon reverse one of the longest rivers in the world. It might be the long since four thousand miles, and it's this massive river and it rises and everyone goes from from living on land, like we all Devon land, to going to each other's houses, to be a boat and fishing from your window. And one year the river rose, because of climate change, it rose another five feet and so there were, you know, these snakes washing into these people's houses and all this other stuff. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I wasn't there for that, but I was here. Therefore, go for going in this canoe through the floating forest and nighttime. All we had was the light, the head like and the electric eel like shot out of the water. Electric Eel can stunt a horse. It will kill you. It's you know, it was like, it looks like. It was like this giant tired jumped out of the water, like twisted around and fell. And that was the only time I saw on my guide's face just this flicker of like what fl with that? God He's like, but I didn't get a picture of that. Do it and the end, you know, for girl and ice, I should probably so. We were in okay, let's switch to Greenland. We were in Greenland and and we were in this fiord. All A FJORD is, it is just a an inlet, extremely deep. It's very, very deep, very very cold, and there was this one fiord called the iceberg graveyard, and it was so called because, for whatever reason, the ocean currents washed in these massive,...

...massive icebergs and you know, I'm talking ten stories, you know, twenty, blow city blocks long. So we were in there with our kayaks and all the time we heard the the the icebergs cracking and breaking and like gunshots going off. So I asked, I asked the guide, like what would happen if one broke, you know, because and he said, well, you know, what you need to do if you hear something break is turn your Kayak toward the sound because of massive wave will be created and it will flip your little kayak in thirty degree water. And he said, he didn't say you're going to live. Turn Your Kayak toward the sound. And Yeah, so that was that was frightening. But it's really interesting. What I know I'm sure you've experienced. Maybe you haven't, I don't know, but have you ever been in a quote, frightening situation and you just kind of you're so in it and you don't feel the fear of time, you just feel very aware. You know, you almost have this heard eye that opens like you're going down a scary alley, right, or your you read, maybe even you're writing a scene that's frightening you. You're so into it right, almost feel your your third eye opening up and looking out for you. Yeah, so that's kind of what happened in jungle. I learned to shut up, you know, and listen and let the guy who can hear through a sweet do yeah, just like you do that. Yeah, listen for the white pepper that there's. So, yeah, they're so dumb, because my God, Oh my gosh. Okay, so, Erica, I am terious and this is such an astonishing idea for a novel. I mean the girl and ice and the title is literally a girl from an known tribe found frozen but alive. Right, right, so how did this idea come to you and and how did you decide to make what many would regard as sort of a quantum leap into speculative fiction? I mean, it's such a different kind of book. Just let's hear about how you come up with the idea. Well, I'm totally a whack job. That's the first yeah, what what are you going to write about? Oh my God, so I was. I was I was walking behind my house. I live in the northeast side of Boston, and it was winter of two thousand and seventeen, and I walk by this pond, you know, this totally frozen pun and I saw at the page of the pond there were three juvenile painted turtles. They were frozen midstroke, like you know, their eyes were open and I thought they don't look alive, but they don't look dead. So I so I ran home. I was like whooling. You know what, what can freeze? I mean not going too a torpor, but what can freeze? And thought out and the element. It turns out there woods of creatures that can do that. There are certain alligators can do that right, certain crocodiles can do it, frogs would frogs can do it and so on. So now they possess a certain cry of protein that we do not possess. We can't freeze ourselves, as far as we know. As far as we know we can freeze the by goat, which you know, an embryo. It's around a hundred on these cells. We do have that technology. In any case, long story short. Yeah, Um, I just thought, I don't know, I just pictured a girl and a glacier and she was running and I just saw our foot from the side and I thought what is she running from? She's running from something and what's her story? And I had to know. You know, I've always I love, I guess I I try to write books that I wish existed. Yeah, but as far as I know, do not yet exist. I think we all do that. Right, we have some idea that, you know, I wish someone else would write it. Right, would sure would be a lot easier, but right. But then we get to write it and then we have to write it and that whole thing. But Um, so I guess I liked this idea because I love science, I love languages, I love books that you read them and they just go along the edge of what's real and what maybe isn't. That could be. So I think that that there's a lot of elements of the in this book that do do that, that that sort of walk that line. And again, I just love to create what I would love to read and I t and I tend to have that meaning. You know, you have to sort of buy it in the and when you read this...

...book you have to sort of it's least for the duration. Yeah, you know, go along with it, but not what you said in a I redicue in it. Talk about you'd read Frankenstein. Yeah, talk about that for just a second. Sure, just wrong question. Yeah, no, sure, so the friends. I Um, I just love the concept of Frankenstein. I don't. Just sort of the whole story of Frankenstein just breaks my heart, you know. But there's a scene I I was I was a painter, so I have a lot of visual stuff in my mind. But and a one thousand nine hundred and thirty one black in my film and it's the end of the film and he's been hunted and he's bloody and he's pissed and he's sad and he's just this blacky, blocky black silhouette and he's disappearing into this blizzard. It's actually Montblong. I just thought that just has stayed with me and I for like thirty years. That can age, you know, I and you know there's no Franken segn in this book, but just just that feeling. I just love that. See that sort of eerie feeling. I mean you're read drank sign you you're but you buy it. You're in. Someone made a person with body parts and they're alive. That's you know. You're like Whoa? So tell me more. Right, right, right, so that what happened, you know. And a little girl sigarette is so not Frankenstein, right, he's just because just, yeah, she's not funk. Don't anyone be scared of about she's said. No, I love it. But like Frankenstein, like your book, you just kind of kind of have to believe that it could happen. Yeah, that's that's kind of the hook for people to bring him in. But I want to get away from that just a little bit. We want to leave the snakes eels and the brand Frankistein and the cracking ice aside. But you've done stand up comedy and written sketch comedy as well. How those skills translate into your writing fiction? Well, I'm not funny anymore, so that sucks. But UMU argue with it. I don't have the pressure to be funny. So that's in. But Um so stand up comedy taught me a lot. I mean you have to be on time with new stuff. That and it's brutal. It's brutal like publishing his brutal. You know, we have to you know, we get reviews, we get you mean, it's you want to learn about rejection to stand up comedy in it and you know. But it was instant publication. You know, I was able to ride away just pars a joke, Parson, idea and it really but it really taught me discipline and and you know, you don't really understand how much material is in five minutes. Yeah, I mean the American public is trained, when we're going to watch company, to laugh every nineteen seconds. You know, it's boom, boom, boom. Well, the traditional how many things are changing. But so you have to and another thing that you I guess I learned was, you know, we're constantly have to be aware as authors who is our audience? Who is our audience? That said, we can be crippled by that as well. It's like, well, they won't like it if I do this. You know, it's it's it's a double edge store. You know, we sort of know. You need to know who are ready for the same time, we have to set our mind street and that's that's part of the mental gymnastics. I don't know about you, but that's what I start out in my writings to do. I eve an hour just like calm down, you know, just like Oh, I'm here. You know, it's like I had an hour today to write. I'm like that's such by us, I mean by the time I stopped shaking. You know, a lot too, it's just like because you gotta push the world away and everything right, right, ladies and yeah, yes, so I don't dad answer your question. Yeah, and I think, yeah, not, about about a lot about timing and and yeah, yeah, okay, Oh, and also, like you know, editing down, like get rid of the words you don't need. And what is and it's rhythm and it's music. It's the music, like you could. I could tell the same joke, just changing a few words around, are changing my tone of voice, and you would laugh or not laugh, depending on that. That's interesting. Yeah, true. Okay, let's switch over to we know you teach writing and I would love it if you would share. I found, actually meg found and shared with me, something that you said, that you tell your writing students about there being no shame and not writing. Oh, yeah, yeah,...

I mean, you know, I have three really quick ones for it. Okay, we love hers. Well, I mean, there's so much pressure in this world, right. There's so much pressure in this world to be productive, and this is an American concept, to produce, produce, produced, but my quick tip is you have to live your life. Where do you think it comes from? This these stories, they come from, you know, holding, holding of a friend's hand or, you know, being with a dying relative, or going to the Party and getting too drunk or doing something stupid. I mean no, you just live your life. Another quick thing is I think the words success is really damaging. I think that we have an understanding of what successes and if I had bought into it thirty five years ago, when my books kept getting rejected, I would have given up. So let your nice to yourself, love yourself, be kind to yourself, forgive yourself. You know my you know what success for you? Maybe it's you enter the contest and you made the deadline, or maybe you learned how do I dialog a little bit better today? Or maybe you understood who a character really was or something like that. And the third thing is never gift up. It's persistence and learning. So you know, don't say, don't tell yourself you have nothing to learn in your fabulous well, I'm sure you are, but all have something to learn. Yeah, all the time. I mean every time I read a book, I have no idea to write a book. Even that's done attends. So persistence and learning. Yeah, that is a great that is a great way for us to Segue into bubb bye, but be talking so well, only we could we start talking to you tonight and having you share your wisdom, and so wonderful to have you tonight. So, everybody, if you have not gotten, girl and ice, this is a put I can get it. It's set in Greenland. You'll love it. Thank you. It's been an honor to be with you, guys. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for being here. Is Lost. Thanks, aaraka. I know, we I mean, there's so much these ladies have to talk to us about. May to leave, but we've got a lot of stuff going on and we have some housekeeping announcements and we want us make exture you stick around because we have a break afterwards. That's what we're calling our after show now, and made that up. I don't know. I love me some slacker. And just like new minutes, we're going to welcome Karent clee one to preview her forthcoming to nest domestic thriller, The new neighbor. We'll just a quick reminder of our writers block. PODCAST. Will always post links under announcements each time a new one drops. A new episode launches every Friday. On the last episode, the Wonderful Meg and I got to talk to with comedian, actor and author Michael Ian Black about his book, which is just out in paperback, a better man at mostly serious letter to my son for the father's day episode. If you have not listened to this one yet, it's just compelling, it's it's funny, it's smart, it's just it was got one of the best experiences ever. But also, on top of that, this Friday I'm talking with Kate White, who is just an amazing writer, but she's also the former editor in chief of Cosmopolitan magazine and there might be a few little secret strat love them. I can't wait to hear that one. All right, so we know that many of you out there have been participating in our very first friends and fiction reading challenge organized by our friend and Nissa Armstrong. So this month, for June, we're encouraging you to read a book from one of the book clubs and next month, for July, if you're looking ahead, will be encouraging you to read a classic book. And if you're looking for a way to keep track of these books and your other reading, we would love to recommend our beautiful reading journal available in the friends and fiction merch store at Oxford Exchange and the pages are not dated. You fill in the dates yourself so you can start any time. It's not like you're miss you know, it's not like starting late means you've missed half the year. You just start when you start and it's a great, great being journal and we're not grading you. I am let me for yourself. I'm likeding all the assignments. Yeah, of course, Christen, judge, mcjudge, Christen, I'll beyond this water of brands, judging into mountains, everybody, and run off to Babo. Okay, that's right. Meantime, the friends and Fiction Official Book Club, which is different than table, which I think we've explained. We are having a blast. They are having a blast. If you're not there, well, you're just missing out. I had so much fun...

...meeting with the group Monday night and you can still watch our discussion about the home wreckers on the book club page. The group, which is the separate facebook page and is run by our friends Lisa Harrison and Brenda Gardner, better known as PB and J, now more than ten, twelve thousand strong. They choose a book each month and they have happy hours with our writers. Block friend Rom Ron Block. That's horrible. They keep everybody in the loop about suggested reading and upcoming releases, and up next they're going to be discussing book lovers by Emily Henry on July two thousand and eighteen. All right now. Finally, you can find all of our back episodes on Youtube. We're live there every week, just like we are on facebook, and if you subscribe to our Youtube Channel, which we hope you will, you won't miss a thing. He sure to come back next week, same time, same place, as we welcome Ellen Hilde Brown with our newest the net hotel man Tucket, which, by the way, just debuted on the New York Times list at number one girl, and we're going to have Jamie Grunt Brenner with her newest guilt, and Robin Car will join us for afterwards. That's a great lineup fighting very hard well. Speaking of subscribing, make sure you're sign up for the friends and fiction newsletter. We send a new issue every Wednesday and we always include exclusive Qa's with our guests. This week's q Anda's with Julie Clark and Erica forensic were really good. There were particularly good and yeah, they definitely cover lots of Info that we don't get to on the show. So definitely sign up for the newsletter. All backs whos are available on a friends and fiction website, so check those out and make sure you signed up. Yes, definitely, and make sure to stay for the afterwards show. I love saying that. Tonight with our own Christ Carmel's younger sister, author, Karen Cleveland, we'll see you in thirty seconds. Well, welcome everyone to afterwards. I mean, how could it get any better? Great, Hey, where? Well, she lost me in snakes. Yes, I can't stand but I felt you know, that's one of the fun things about this show. You hear of the story behind the story and the authors, I think, are so generous with talking to us about what was going through their head when they were riding the book. And we've got more great stuff to come. Okay, let is not we're not going to waste another second. WE WANT TO GET TO KAREN CLEVELAND. I mean I don't think we should call her kristen's little sister. She is Karen Cleveland, right, correct. She also does happen to be my sister. That you know that, but I'm she has a great last name. Yeah, yes, well, Karen is a former star analyst and the New York Times best selling author of several novels, including need to know. Keep you close and you can run. They're all three word titles, I've noticed. Oh, yes, yes, yes, she began. She began her career in the sea it CIA, working on Russia, and she later moved into the CIA's Counter Terrorism Center, where she focused on Pakistan and Syria. Karen wrote briefs for the US President and other senior policymakers, worked closely with an FBI joint terrorism task force and earn more than a dozen exceptional performance awards while working for the CIA. Karen Gadi again, the terrifying night, isn't it, and I talked about stealing money from people. Oh, you're on a this long now. Yeah, you're on the black list. Rod Paren's debut novel, need to know, was an international best seller and has been published in more than thirty international markets. Film rise, for sold the universal pictures with Charlie's there on attached to produce and star Nice. Karen spent her childhood in Florida and graduated from the Vastly Superior Southern University of the University of Florida. She went on to earn master's degrees from Harvard and Trinity College Dublin, where she studied as a full right scholar. Karen now lives in North Carolina with her husband and three children, who also happened to be my niece and nephews. Allen, could you bring Karen on? First of all, we need some we need some deep dive on Kristen's childhood crimes. Karen finished? I mean, did she like still your clothes? The spy on you? Anything good? Now you know abous great I have been. I can keep a secret. So...

...you know, we'll jam. Wow, these black sisters are really all high. I know, I know. Could you talk to us a little bit about the new neighbor, which will be out next month? Yeah, solutely. Thank you so much for having me back here. So the new neighbor is about a woman, bath the and a neighborhood full of secrets. Beth is going through a lot of changes in her life. She's becoming an empty Nester, she's selling the home where she raised her kids, her marriage is crumbling, and professionally too, she's going through a lot of changes. She is a CIA analyst and she's just been removed from the pace that has long been hers tracking in Iranian intelligence agent known as the neighbor. So the last piece of information she had on this case was sort of a cryptic message saying the neighbor has found a new cold to SAC. And as Beth is sort of struggling to deal with all these changes in her life, she develops kind of a fascination with the perfect new family that's moving into her old house and in particular the women in the family, who she sees a sort of a younger version of herself, and son who's stepping into her life, into her neighborhood, on her full sac and, you know, just basically stepping into this life she used to have and that's really stopped. Watching this woman and she sort of convinces herself that this woman has something to do with her old case at work. And the question is, is it? Is it there Annoya, or you know, maybe are there more secrets on this cold to sact than she knew about? Such a great promise, all right, is a great promise. So, Karen, there's a question we've been asking lately. You've told us what the book is about, but what is the book really about say, it's really about secrets and lies. And how well do you know the people around gee? Not just your Brs, but really, how well do you know anybody close to you? And I think also this idea that the grass isn't always greener and sometimes you don't really appreciate what you have until maybe it's gone. I love that intriguing. Okay, so I happen to know this because you know I'm related to you, but I know you moved within the last couple of years. Did that have anything to do with how you came up with the idea for this book? Was Your own move related to that at all? And also one of them it on a street where there are like criminals and sighs, and every corner, every corner. Maybe it was related. We moved in mid two thousand and twenty and, for the record, I would not recommend moving at the beginning of a global evoc it's fun experience, but you know. So we moved at this time. We had also been sort of confined to our neighborhood for months at this time, like most of us, due to covid and so we were. We were confined to our neighborhood, we were spending a lot of our time researching other neighborhoods because we were preparing to move. So it's sort of seemed fitting to write a book that was centered around a neighborhood. And there were, I guess, a couple of things related to our actual move that did sort of service inspiration for the book. One, you know, I actually didn't see our new house until the day we closed, which I know sounds crazy, but again, this was, you know, Spring Two Thousand and twenty. We did feel comfortable flying at the time. We didn't feel comfortable with hotels. We had a baby who hated her car screamed bloody murder whenever she was in it. So, how something was really difficult and, you know, I just remember thinking, what are these new neighbors think about this family that came in and put in an offer, an US sight of you know, they must have a lot of questions about us. And there was something else that happened kind of right after we moved in. I remember my kids were out in the cold stack riding their bikes and a neighbor now and he stood and watched them for a little while and he said to me, you know, my kids were about that age when we moved in and now the and you know if it seems like yesterday and now the youngest is off to college. And you could just sort of see the emotion when he said it and he put his hat in the market, if you or and he moved and it just sort of stuck with me because I think that's such a thing really it's to kind of move into a neighborhood, raise your kids and then move out again, make down size whatever. But you can imagine...

...that there's a lot of emotion in that. You're sort of letting go of a lot and it just made me think, what if there's a character who, you know it, has even more change going on in her life and has a hard time dealing with it, and you could see how somebody could sort of become very interested in, or maybe even a little obsessed with, kind of the family that is kind of taking their place, taking in your place and kind of living that life that you lived, you know. So and then, just you know what, if that neighborhood is right outside Langley and what if all of the neighbors have some tie to the CIA? You could see how there might be sort of secret school or they're I love fund to wow. So I'm curious about it from a little bit different angle. Care in him you write a lot about shifting alliances and spies that might be like right under your nose and not necessarily being able to trust the people that were supposed to trust. Is that something that you were influenced by with your work in the CIA? I think so. You know, I think it was something that you sort of learn there and you sort of absorb working there. I don't think I really had a hard time trusting people before I started working at the CIA. Yeah, I would say I'm less trusting now and you know, it is something you kind of learn and I think, you know, if I had to point to an example, there's there's sort of a lesson, I guess you would say that sort of sticks to mind, because I think it made me laugh and I heard it, you know, if a few different times at least while I was there, and it was usually directed at people heading overseas, and usually men heading curseas, and it was sort of people being told, you know, if you're in a bar somewhere and there's a really attractive woman who is paying a lot of attention to you, you know, ask yourself the question if you were back in a bar in the United States with this person to be paying attention to you? Why? Just because you've gone overseas doesn't mean you're any more attractive here or know anything like that. So and it always sort of made me laugh, but I think it's it just does sort of speak to things that that your time, which is that you can't really ever fully trust anybody and you have to think what other, you know, intentions people could have. Right. So, did you have to amplify some of the things that you learned in CIA when you switch to writing fiction it? Did I have to what, I'm sorry, amplify? Amplify the paranoia and the and the mystery? I think so. But you know, I think it's it's sort of easy to do in a way because, you know, I think it's something that I kind of maybe absorbed in my own my own life and everything. You know, when I met my husband I was working at the CIA and, you know, I did kind of think to myself, is he is he really a good guy, or is he maybe not who he says he is? And that was sort of the inspiration for my first book. Need to know so I think that there is kind of a lot about what you pick up there that you can kind of use and fiction. That makes sense. I'm curious. So some of your colleagues that you stayed in touch with feel about your work, since you're so directly addressed the CIA? Has any of the feedback you've gotten from them been surprising? Oh, nobody has said anything bad about my writing to my famacilities. I think that. I think that people find the novels fun and they're definitely not sort of heavy spy thrillers. You know. This one in particular, I think really is kind of domestics as sense, with the little splash of the CIA. So you know, I hope that they are fund reads for for Xcia and not EXCIA. I like. Do you think you'd ever write a domestic thriller that didn't involve the intelligence world, or do you feel like that'll always be a at least a certain part of what you write? Yeah, I guess that's not something I've really considered. I like what I'm writing and I think who was it done that afterwards last week Kate Quinton, who was talking about kind of signing a unique story in a crowded genre sort of and you know, I feel like there's a lot of domestics to spent up there. There are a lot of books about neighborhoods and neighbors and I think having a little bit of a a angle there is something that kind of helps me come up with unique ideas. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I definitely, definitely can see that. You know, we're watching the remake of the Ip Chris...

Files Right now and it's like, Oh, I'm really into this. Okay, I I have a question I was going to ask you, but first of all I have to know have you assembled a dossier on Kristen and is there anything of interest in there that we should know about? Who we can try and where can we buy it? I know, I she's perfect. She's honestly perfect. She really were all. There's gotta be something we need. They're really there, really is it? Like? Honestly, this girl is prom clean and beledictory. Like who is Prom cuen about it? CORTOR's like always just been perfect. Come on, we're not going to get too much into her perfection because it's making me gag. Know you have three children and I'm assuming they're not spies. But, and I know they're young, we ask our guests about writing tips. And of course, with three young children, and I know how kristen carves out time, she drugs her son. That's another story. Yeah, you're not supposed to tell my sister. Come on, and she's gonna Perfect. Yeah, thanks for ruining it, Cathy. You how do you make time to do the creative work that you need to do and the research work? Um, you know, I would say not very well. Oh, that's I'm never real lately. I mean it's difficult to find the time and I feel like I kind of tend to work in spurts. So there will be times but I'm maybe not carving out as much time as I should and the ideas aren't coming. Is Dealy. And there will be times when, you know, I do and more time and ideas are coming more easily. So I guess I feel like it kind of tends to work out in the end. So try not to stress about it. But I guess when I do stress about it, I don't sleep and then there's a whole bunch of uninterrupted hours of writing time. That works to you, like the rest of us, when you don't sleep are the stories sort of spinning in your head? Yeah, yeah, I think so, and you know, that is actually something I do if I can't sleep. Sometimes I do get up and right and sometimes, if I have trouble falling a sleep, I also try to like clan out next chapters until I fell asleep. Instead of counting sheep. You want chapters. We Dude. Is that weird? That know, that's how you might of that's how we that's how we think. We all carve out. I think we all carve out those pockets of time whenever and wherever they occur. Yeah, all right, Karen. Thank you so much for joining US tonight. Now I'm going to be checking everybody in my neighborhood. I'm Supid, I know, didn't. Do you know how one of my neighbors just texted me as we were on this. I just think it's a sign. I think they're watching. I mean like not watching, not not watching on the Internet, but like watching. So now, Huh, bring it off, for the cameras. Look for the cameras. Tell us when the new neighbor is in stores? Yes, July. Twenty six. Excellent. Perfect. Can't wait to read it, and we would urge everybody out there. As we've already said, then stress many times the first week of a book's life is the most important week. So by her book, Damn It. And thank you, guys, so much for being with US tonight. Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it. Sorry to see you to night and night ready. Thank you for tuning in. You can join us every week on facebook or Youtube, where our live show airs on Wednesday nights at Zeven PM Eastern time. Also, subscribe to our podcast and follow us on instagram. We're so glad you're here.

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