Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 1 year ago

Friends and Fiction with Kathy Reichs

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

#1 New York Times bestselling author Katjy Reichs joins the Friends & Fiction authors to discuss A Conspiracy of Bones, the nineteenth entry in her Temperance Brennan series, as well as her work as a producer of the hit Fox TV series, Bones, which is based on her work and her novels. https://kathyreichs.com

Welcome to friends and fiction. Five best selling authors, Endless Stories, Friends and Fiction is a podcast with five bestselling novelist whose common love of reading, writing an independent bookstores found them together with jets, author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing. Thes friends discuss the books they've written, the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Bestselling novelist Mary Kay Andrews, Christine Harmel, Christie Woodson, Harvey Patty Callahan, Henry and Mary Alice Munro are five longtime friends with more than 80 published books. To their credit at the Start of the Pandemic, they got together for a virtual happy hour to talk about their books, their favorite bookstores writing, reading and publishing in this new, uncharted territory. They're still talking, and they've added fascinating discussions with other bestselling novelists, so join them live on their friends and fiction Facebook Group page every Wednesday at 7 p.m. Eastern, or listen and view later at your leisure. Alison, your friends and I'm Mary Alex Grow and my latest novel is on Ocean Boulevard. I'm Mary Kay Andrews and my latest novelist last summer. I'm Christine Harmel and my latest novel is the book of last names. I'm Christi Woodson Harvey and my latest book is Feels Like Falling and I'm Paddy Callaghan, Henry and my latest is becoming Mrs Lewis. And sometimes we forget how to go in alphabetical order. Think hardest part like that. And now just not a thing, my friends is friends and fiction for Tonight. We are so thrilled to be diving into our fall season with the perfect author toe have you cuddling up under a company throw and turning pages to the wee hours of the morning. We have with us, the queen of forensic mysteries, Kathy Rights. And it's really hard to write an intro for this woman because her accomplishments are mind boggling. You have to go to her website to read the entire impressive list, but tonight I'll give you just a brief glimpse on the amazing Dr Rights. We all know Kathy Rights as the author of the uber successful Bone Siri's with Temperance Brennan, also the very popular bone TV Siri's with an astounding 246 episodes over 12 seasons. I mean, think about that I know. I see it all the time. There are 26 books in the Siri's and Number 27. The bone code will be out in March 2021. Kathy has also co authored three young adults Siri's called Virals, with her son Brendan Raikes. Now Dr Reichs received her bachelor's degree in anthropology from American University and her master's and PhD in physical anthropology from Northwestern University. She is one of only 100 forensic anthropologist ever certified by the American Board of Forensic Anthropology. And that's saying, Ah, lot And her experiences are impressive. To name a few doctor writes, traveled to Rwanda to testify at the U. N. Tribunal on genocide, and this is very emotional. She assisted in recovery of remains at the World Trade Center following the 9 11 terrorist attacks. Kathy brings all this extensive knowledge to her fiction. And is it any wonder why her books are instant best...

...sellers worldwide? So welcome, Kathy, Right? E o s so glad you're here. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thank you. Well, we get to begin asking you all our questions, and then we'll pull questions from the audience. But first Park Road books. As you all know, we are passionate supporters of independent booksellers. Tonight, our guest, Kathy, shows her favorite bookstore Park Road Books in Charlotte, North Carolina. And tonight they're offering a 10% discount on Kathy Reichs. Ah, conspiracy of bones as well as the titles of our new fictions. And also select paperbacks as well as well, check out the website. The link to the bookstore is posted on the friends and Fiction page. All right, Cappy. Ah, Conspiracy of bones. Get ready. Here comes the first question. Ah, Conspiracy of Bones came out in March, and so, like the rest of us, your book tour was canceled and that coronavirus kind of took us all for a ride. And as we've often talked about on this show, that's how the spark for friends addiction actually began. We came together on locked during lock down and started this show. Now summer's coming to an end, or it's actually over, and we're sort of moving into the new normal. And the question I have for you and for everybody is is there something that you discovered or learned during the stay at home time that you might not have otherwise learned or something that you value that you choose to keep with you. Yeah, Anything. Gosh, I was quarantined in at my beach house with two of my daughters and four of my grandkids. Yeah, for about four months. Um, and I think that one of the things I learned is how thio do hair how to do a little kids e wasn't so good because it had been a few years since I've done my own culture, but yeah, I guess that was re sharpened, that skill making peanut butter sandwiches. You know, all of those that I hadn't done, But how wonderful. You've got to spend those four months with your grandchildren. Your laughter. Yeah, Unfortunately, it's a pretty It was pretty big house. Um, I subsequently sold that house and moved out, but way were able to spread. So that helped a lot. And there was the beach of the pool in that. So Well, I just have to point out there during that four months where a few blocks apart and I was up in North Carolina, we never saw each other that that once that once all right, I'd like to ask that same question. Kristen, how about you do anything that you've learned or discovered that you'd like to keep? Uh, yeah. Question Mary. Alice, Um, I was thinking about it. Is Kathy was talking? I think one thing I've learned is you know, we all know that that if life gives you lemons make lemonade saying right. But I feel like one lesson I've learned bring this whole thing is that sometimes life gives you both the lemons and the sugar. You need to make the lemonade. And I feel like, you know, and I feel like this is sort of a perfect example of that. I mean, it felt like the world was ending in March, and then this whole thing started. I just You guys been my sugar s? Oh, you know, I think I think there's always sweet with this hour in life, and you just have to remember to look for it. Oh, that's sweet. Literally. That was a how much Mary Kay. Well, you know, I am a Derry beginning when we thought Oh, you know,...

...we'll have no food in the stores. E tinkered with bread baking. And after a few efforts, I actually produced a pretty respectable loaf of sourdough and you could actually see, you know, kind of my process on on my instagram page. I did little videos of it, and then I made actually some really decent made from scratch hamburger buns and the other that, you know, one of the other things I found was about 15 extra pounds from all the all the importance I was eating like it was my job. And the other one was, um, I learned that if I sat down and wrote every day with no excuses, there were no excuses. I had to write every day for basically six months in a row that I could produce a book and turn it in two months ahead of deadline. And that's something I've never done in my 30 year career. So that's really that. And I'll leave that open because I suspect other people are gonna talk about that Christie or Patty who wants to go first? Go ahead, darling. I mean, I learned that if I am out on a Friday night and Mary Kay Andrews texts me and says you're writing at seven, do not send me any excuses, then you know I dio, which is true, but really, just being home has been kind of amazing. I mean, I know we all travel so much, and I was obviously so panicked about not going on a book tour. But e think I'll always why? No, I'll always remember this summer, but there was just such simplicity to it. I mean, we spent, you know every night, like fishing on the dock with little boys, and it's just been it's just there's been something kind of special about it, even though it's been crazy. But just to have, you know, be with will and get through with his friends. And I was laughing. I had a girls weekend last weekend and the girls pulled out and it was like the minute they pulled out the drive, like all these little boys came running in and they were like, We're getting on the boat, we need sandwiches and I'm like, Yep, that that's me sandwiches like it's just it's funny. It was like, just just simplicity, that I really, really have loved. You should have called Cathy E. Got lemonade. A nice image. Who knew? Yeah, that's a nice image sitting on the dog kids. Okay, Patty E. Oh, there's so many things that I feel like, um, we're silver linings. And it's hard to talk about them because we also talk about how so many hard things were happening at the same time. And so, with all the hard things happening, it's easy to forget some of the beautiful things that were happening and like Christie, because she stole my answer because she does that sometimes way share annoying. Um, but one of the things that you asked what will keep and I really want to keep the slower pace, not the not being so hectic and spinning and 100 miles an hour, maybe just 90 miles an hour. But I think I think all of us would agree that maybe we were doing a tiny bit too much, and we realized that the work is the most important. I mean, along with our families. But, um, we we've got so much more work done because we settled in and I don't wanna lose that. I wanna keep on that kind of ties in with all all the sprints in the morning that has been the taskmaster, for those were all...

...really great answers. And I hope everyone out there is thinking about what you discover we want to keep to. All right. I guess it's time for the program where we get to say, Cathy, will you tell us about a conspiracy of Bones? You want to hear about your book? Oh, gosh. Um, in Hollywood, we talk about the elevator pitch where you summarized in five bullet points. So I guess it would be a brain lesion. A faceless course, A conspiracy theorist. Um oh, I'm running out of points exploitation of the vulnerable mm, exile, exile. That would be another one. But those are the teachers of the book. Temping is exiled from the medical examiner office. She's dealing with some health issues. She's having to work on identifying this faceless corpse outside. Relying on her own resource is, and so the book has a little bit different tenor than most of the book. When and she had Well, I'll ask you the question, but one of the things I love about it was so personal, and so I'll ask you that going into that question, it z a great book. Frankly, I just It's one of my very favorite, it really is. I think he really out did yourself on this one. It waas very powerful. Anyway, so let me ask my question. Are you done talking about the description? I don't want to rush you e don't know how much we're supposed to ram along, but as long as you like Oh, well, you know, you can ask me questions about what I just said. I mean, she's working while she, uh, we learned and in the bone collection, the bone collection that her boss for years and years and years Tim Larrabee was murdered. So there's a new medical examiner in Charlotte. There's a new boss in town, and Tempe and this woman have history, and this woman has sworn that she will never, ever work in the EMI office again. So that's really hard for our Gail and also the fact that she is recovering from an unknown Unruh pictured a cerebral aneurysm, and she's had some lingering of fax and she can't completely. For the first time in her life, she can't completely rely on her own perceptions. What Israel and what is not really for her on a personal level and That's also the broader theme of the book, What is real and what is not really because we are. I don't know if anyone turned on their TVs last night, but we're constantly inundated with a false information with disinformation and this information. And how does the average anybody can get on the Internet? Anyone can get on the airways. Anyone can put out a blogged and say whatever they want to say. So how does the average person soared through all that and figure out what is fake news? You know what, Israel and what is not really so that's the broader theme of the book on. That's one of the reasons, right? I really I think I love this book. There's so much in it. It's just so rich and, ah, lot of the issues, really as a female reader, too, because your books appealed to male and female. But as a female reader, I am just you really hit this woman with a lot of really personal issues. There's the unfolding of the crime, but you just described. But also for me, it was her personal struggles, that really of temperance that really struck home like you said she was forced to really reassess her career. Take a hard look at her health, and I think the biggest thing that was my dog shaking the O. E. Was that an earthquake. It's only my dog. But she also would, I thought was so brilliant was she had to question her judgment because her aneurysm and I thought, And then while like you said, she's fighting with this boss she has. She's dealing with her bow, which we...

...all love Ryan. But the whole thing felt really personal. Then a t end of the book. You have the section from the forensic files of Kathy Rights, and it's there that you revealed that you had had an aneurysm and I was stunned. I mean, I was absolutely blown away, And the question that came to mind was the You know how much of Temperance Brennan is your fictional alter ego on? I know she's not you, I know you and it's not your personal life history. And by the way, everyone out there Kathy has one of the most wonderful families. Really very well. She just testified that she was in a house for four months with your grandchildren. It's a very beautiful and close family, but I'm curious. What are the parallels between the forensic anthropologist, Tempe Brennan and you? And what is the difference? And what what kind of courage and inspiration was it? You brought out the aneurysm for Tempe because I thought it was a stroke of brilliance, no pun intended. E only lost track of the question. I don't know. Normally a between you are. Certainly there are, and it's more. It's a complicated question because we have the two temples. There's book Tempe and there's TV Tempe and there. Did you know? But the book Tempe that I created I did based her professionally on myself. Obviously she She's a forensic anthropologist. She works a crime scene. She works in medical legal labs. She commutes between North Carolina and Quebec. I remember when the first book came out, a reviewer saying This is so unrealistic. Nobody could Hey, buddy, you know it's what Ideo That's what I had heard you. But I wanted her also to be approachable. I wanted her not to be perfect eso I couldn't based her on myself if I was gonna I gave her some flaws. I gave her. Yeah, I never go into any detail, but I glued to in her past. She had a colorful period with alcohol, so she's a non drinker now. Eso those air strictly Tempe. Her relationship with Andrew Ryan, which is Rocky, Um, on and off. You know, that's strictly Tempe. I am told. My friends tell me that we share the same rather sarcastic sense of humor that when she says something, they could just hear me saying the same kind of on your inspiration for giving her. I mean, I thought it was pretty courageous to give her the aneurysm. But is that because you understood it? Oh, you wanted to complicate the character even more. Yeah, well, I wanted her to be dealing with something particularly difficult in this, which it wasn't. It was really kind of a walk in the park. Frankly, um, they discovered it serendipitously, looking for something completely. Uh, yes. And they said, No, you don't have that something else. But by the way, there's this little bubble off one of your cerebral vessels. But we tracked it for many years, and it never change that. Go in every year and have ah M R E. I guess it was. And then finally, one year, he said. You know what changed a little bit. Let's just go and block it off. So they snake something up through. I think they didn't like your ephemeral artery and go all the way up into your brain. And they put some little oils and they just block it off, eh? So it was not a big deal, but gave her lingering after effects that you did. Yeah, yeah, because I really wanted her to be. She's in a pretty bad place in this book. She's dealing with a lot of different. I didn't know her own judgment. Like, am I imagining this? Is this me or is this really well, Yeah,...

...exactly. And for her that that's something right now for her. Yeah, all right. Christie eso as Mary Alice has already mentioned a little bit about you gifted your readers with the from the Forensic files of Dr Kathy Rights Section at the end of the book, and it reads like a writing tip on how you construct your novels. Can you tell us a little bit more about your research process for a conspiracy events. Oh, my reason. It always begins with something I'm trying to look two years down the road. Does it takes you a year to write a book, A year in production. So what's gonna be on people's minds? Not the aneurysm again, no pun intended. But what people's minds and two years down the road? And it was this whole thing about fake news, alternative, fax How do we so I wanted to I wanted to work that in. I wanted these thes wacka doo, uh, conspiracy theorists that air on the on the air and on the Internet. I wanted to use that as the theme. I do a lot of research before I start writing. I choose a particular kind of science that I'm gonna use to drive the story. Andi, I use a different forensic science in each in each book. So I researched that, for example, um, creating FINA tip pick. You can now use DNA to predict, um, hair color, eye color and skin color and rod, ancestral background, that kind of thing. Well, that's interesting. Why don't we? Why don't we use that? So I'll research that. But then there comes a point where I start writing and then it Z I write in a linear way. I start with Chapter one, Chapter two, Chapter three. My daughter, Kerry, who was mentioned earlier. I think if she's in a good mood, she writes the love scene, and if she's in a bad mood, writes the death scene, you know I can't do that. That's just wrong. So I do write in a very linear fashion, but its's circular. It's feedback. So as I'm writing, um, if I just stumble on something and you know I'll be researching forensic genealogy, but I stumble on something else, I think, Oh, that's great. I'm gonna use that and graded. And then, of course, you have to go back and make changes earlier in the book did that answer so yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I research every single little thing. If I've got her turning left off of Main Street on the third Avenue in Cincinnati, you know, I'll make sure I look it up and make sure you could do that, and it's not a one way street or you know or whatever, that's fascinating. I mean, it isn't ever changing field, and that must make it really exciting. There's always something new happening and another step being taken. So right. I'm always looking for those little either at a professional meeting, going to a presentation, a scientific presentation or in our journals looking for those articles that little articles that are a year ahead of what people are going to be aware of, Where some new group using now to determine how long someone's been dead or, you know, I don't think that's good stuff. Lets you know e advantage of actually doing the work yourself. You know that your yes, and I have the advantage that I work. Well, I'm pretty much eased out of it because it just it was too much. I was doing an adult book, a young adult book, and ah, screenplay every year. So something that s so what I let go was case work. But I still have all my colleagues. I could still phone them up or go to the lab and walk down the hall and ask them about, you know, mitochondrial DNA and cat hair or whatever it is I want to know. That's a big wow. My e No. You have a question?...

Yeah, happy you mentioned. Carry your daughter. And I actually first met you years ago through Carrie. Um, and I remember being really struck at the time by the closeness, the closeness of your family. Um so, of course Mary Alice mentioned earlier that you've written a young adult syriza your son Rand then and I've known carry U S. O for all of you out there who don't know carry rights. Um, she's a writer, too, in her 2012 novel. What you wish for is one of my favorites, and it's one I think this group would really enjoy. I think it's right up the friends and functionality, So check that one out. Kathy Kerry is also one of the strongest, most inspiring women I know. I just think so highly of her. So in any case, they both carved out their own corners of the writing world, and they've completely succeeded on their own. But I know they've worked on projects with you, too. Can you talk a little bit about what it's like to have them following in your footsteps? A little bit of writers and also what it's been like to work with them as colleagues because I know you've collaborated with both of them. Yeah, and they're both very strong personalities. They're both attorneys. So when you're working carrying, I wrote screenplays together really well for four episodes of Bones together, and Brendan and I wrote six young adults the viral Siri's. So we had a way of doing it, divvying it up, and then we would have more. So with the books, we would have our editorial meetings and discuss our creative differences. E his work. He would edit my work, and then we go in my office, closed and discuss our differences. But way managed to somehow take off the mother sun hat or the mother daughter hat and just put on the co author hat. And I think I respected. They're better at certain kinds of writing certain aspect of writing than I am, and I'm better at some aspects than than they are Brendan, his crackerjack, it plotting. He's just really good at plotting. And, yeah, so we just played off each other's strengths. That's not to say we didn't didn't have disagreements, and then we did it my way. A like a mother e have I have all the book covers in my office in Charlotte, framed and lined up on a high shelf kind of circling my office. And Brennan would say, Well, why should we do with your What do you What makes you think you know more about writing the night? And I would just point to the 19 way whatever way E could see you do that, too. Yeah, Capital. I think it is so fascinating that you write with your kids. And so it's obvious that you they've watched you right? You've been still this in their lives, really curious. And it's a question we try to ask every guest, but tell me about your family growing up the values around, reading and writing with the family who grew up in. Is it different than how you raised your kids with reading and writing? And how would you? How would you compare them? E. I remember a big emphasis on reading. Growing up my mother was a big reader. She led There was these this club National Club, I guess, called great books. Yeah, I remember that She led discussions on radio primarily but occasionally on TV as well. So she was a big reader, and she always encouraged us to read. So that was always an important important part of growing up. I don't remember much emphasis on writing. E didn't have much interest in, you know, I kept a diary when I was 14. You know, everybody does that. And, uh, Thio God, no one ever finds it later. But but but...

...but But I really avoided literature classes in university. I didn't want any part of that. I took the obligatory. We had to take a two course sequence, so I did introduction to poetry and introduction to fiction. And then I just wanted to be over in the science labs. I just wanted to be taking zoology and physiology. And, you know, all the ology is over there. So I really have no training in writing and didn't have much interest in creative writing for the Yeah, other than my resume. E and I was free to do whatever I wanted to do, and I just thought it was for some reason all of a sudden I decided it would be fun to write fiction. You know, I was a nurse before I started writing fiction. And so in college and graduate school. They were all the Allah. Jeez, and name is you. I was at avid reader, but I never once thought about writing a book. Yeah, until I did. So that's why I'm always curious about the background and the values around reading and writing, because I feel like I have this theory unproven theory that the more family supported reading and writing or even just reading and literature in the family. It kind of bubbles up later on like, Yeah, you can't be a writer. You're not a reader. I know you can try. Just e. All right. Okay. Kathy, you've touched on this a little bit. And you discussed how in this book you started at a time when the national there was a national atmosphere of suspicious and doubt. Uh, and, you know, fake news and alternative fax. And so it was interesting for me as a former journalist, it was a painful reminder to me of how important um, independent journalism is in a time like this. Could you discuss what it was there? Like one tipping point? One thing that made you understand you needed to talk about that in conspiracy of bones e think it was just one Alex Jones. Is that his name? Alex? Yeah, Yeah, exposed many. And, you know, you said yourself, How could anyone listen to this? And I believe this stuff. And I started researching conspiracy theories and just some of the wildest things air out there. How can anyone and people believe it? You know, Marilyn Monroe is living with Elvis in Timbuktu or whatever. You know, How can people believe? And there then there are whole chat rooms where they talk about how it's true. So it was just accumulated to the fact of all of that going on out there and then a dark place. I'm sorry. Did you feel is, though you were in a dark place when you went down that rabbit hole of all these conspiracy theorists? Good question. Well, I did go down. You know, I did go down into the dark web. I did download the Tor browser and I did go around them. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty, pretty grim stuff down there, both vision and and just verbally as well. And to think that there people that believe that stuff, it's just it's just beyond me. It became timely. Yes, it's quite timely. Yes, so on. That's I think, the point that the book is It's not just right wing wack jobs. It's people in authority were putting putting this stuff out. Well, I think it's time to talk about the bookstore on the weak way. Get the highlight of every weekend Independent bookstore in this week, and he chose her favorite Park Road Books...

...in Charlotte, North Carolina. This store has been independently independently owned and operating since 1977 and Park Road has been a cornerstone of Charlotte's local community for 43 years. They are the Onley full service independent bookstore in Charlotte, and they pride themselves on finding the right book for the right person, and you can see that you can contact them. There's the link, and it's also on our Facebook page. Hello, Park Road books. I think you know a lot of us. Most of us have all come to do events in Charlotte with you and Parker Books is offering 10% off Kathy writes books or the latest releases of all of ours, as well as from Select Flavor Bats through October 2nd. So go to the link or call the store at 7045259239 And that number is going to be on our Facebook page. So everybody, the pandemic does continue. And all of us really want to support our local independent bookstores. And the link to park rulebooks is on friends and Fiction page, so please use it. Just make a click and buy a conspiracy of bones. Okay, so the five of us have had a chance to ask captain questions. Now it's your turn. So we're gonna choose to questions from our website. And Christie, how about the first one? Yeah. Um, Connie Clarkston dorks wants to know how true is the TV show Bones to your books? How true was it to the books? Um, it was really What we did, is they? They optioned the character, the Temperance Brennan character. So that was the core concept. And then if you've watched the show, it's quite different in many ways. From the books. Temporary is younger. Um, she's taller. She Emily Deschanel did a fantastic job with this character, Um, instead, in Washington, D. C. Where is my books are set primarily in North Carolina, the Carolinas and Montreal in Quebec. Although she does travel around, there's one book in Guatemala. There's one in Israel. She does get around eso so there are definite differences also on TV, and he works at a full time. It's called the Jeffersonian. Um, right up until we had to put the logos on the lab coats and on the truck were not able to get permission. The Sony people, we're not saying no, you can't call the Smithsonian. But they were not saying yes. The lawyers so called it the Jeffersonian s. Oh, that's different from Tempe. In the books, in the books, she does what I do. She moves between these two jurisdictions. Uh, let's see. So what other differences are there? She works on the TV show. She works with an FBI agent, Seeley Booth. Whereas that character is, uh, books Andrew Ryan, who is a provincial police officer, um, from Quebec. So the core idea of being a forensic anthropologist and working with unidentifiable human remains, whether they're burned or mutilated or mummified or decomposing or dismembered, or just skeletal on getting an identification and figuring out cause and manner of death, that core idea of solving the crime is the same in both the books and on the TV series. Amazing. Thank you. And Christian, how about you? Can you pull one up? Yeah, we have another great one. Um from Pamela Merson. Who says Did parents become the woman you expected when you conceived her? Yeah, I think a Zay said I didn't want perfect. I wanted her to have flaws. I wanted her to be approachable, but I wanted her to be smart and I wanted her...

...to be compassionate about her work. Eso you know, I don't really I don't really buy into that. I was that the character took off on their own Here the author, you have a keyboard, you have a delete key. So I think she's evolved. She has evolved. She has changed over time both in the TV series and in the book. She has changed over time and I think in a good way and in a way that I wrote and I planned. So not I didn't plan everything from the beginning through the 20th book, but I mean everything. It in the book, I wrote it so Yeah, but she does what we owe those grandkids. And your Castillo are you? Oh, my gosh, The oh, well, now we got to bring up some questions from the audience. Let's see who comes A. They are a big fan here, longtime leader for some caller. A couple of questions for you. And first and most importantly, I would like to know what important writing skills that you have learned from your talented and successful daughter. And you're brilliant. Thank them you cut out a little bit. What? Writing skills that I learned from my daughter. Oh, gosh, I think about how close the office door when you're really under deadline and just, uh, put someone Carrie and I as I as I mentioned you earlier, carry, I don't know if you heard that we have very different approaches. He I'm much more linear and rigid on how I write, whereas you tend to follow your moods. So I guess I've learned a little bit of doing that, although it's still wrong. It's not the way that I have because, you know, there's been a lot of changes from when you wrote your first book, Thio, Now with your 19th, and I'm curious how have you approached writing differently? And how do you approach your characters and just the administrative side of writing from your first year 19th novel? And how did writing for television change and impact the way that you write for novels? Now, that's great of questions. Um, well, but I wrote the first novel I had. I had no expectations and no limitations because I had no publisher. So I just wrote it, hoping that I'd be able to sell it so and I had no training. I didn't have a clue what I was doing when I finished the first book, which took me two years because I was teaching full time and I had these these these ready kids around. I didn't want to do so. Kerry had a friend who had a friend who worked for some publishing house, So she said, Well, why don't we write a cover letter and mail it to this? So I said, Well, you know, find out what publishing house and what they do. And it turned out Mary Sue Grucci was a junior editor, a scrivener. So I thought, Oh, yeah, that's a pretty good house. So we just composed the cover letter and mailed it off, which is not yeah, not the way it published. And, of course, Mary Sue is on the other end of this, having been told that her friends, friends, friends, mother's first novelist coming her well, well, very later told me that she took two or three chapters. She lived in Brooklyn, I think took two or three chapters home with her thinking, already composing her reject letter, I'm sure got in her car, went back into Manhattan, got the rest of the book, took it home and read it and handed it on up the line. And I think I had an offer within two or three weeks. It was very fast. A. That is not the way to go about, um, getting published. So that's...

...just a good indication of how naive I was and how I didn't have a clue what it was I was doing on the book. 19 books, 20 books. I just got my editorial letter back on number 20. I'm very minor suggestions, um, 20 books down the road. I know how the industry works and I know a little bit more about it, and I go about it in a little more well informed manner. I think you still have the same Saturday. I do not. I had, but I've had great longevity. My first editor was with me for seven years, and then she retired on. My next editor was with me for another. I've only had three editors, so I've been and it's it's because they retired. They left me. You're them? Yeah. I just have to tell everybody those adorable Children that we just who just skirted off. I don't know where they went. Declan and Hazel tell us a little bit about Declan and Hazel. I know Declan's the turtle boy we called him. He might be growing out of that carry, but he's been to every turtle nest. When you guys were on the island. That there? Yeah, I keep waiting to get a really threatening phone call or a letter from the turtle people, because the pool I'm in my I'm in a brand new house. I've only been in it for two weeks now, I guess, and I can't turn the pool lights off, so I know. I know. I'm going to get the letter from the turtle Ladies because we only have one nest left, so and it's not in front of your house, So that's mhm. You're in the clear this year, but you better learn how to turn those lights off year. Yeah, they're gonna bomb my house, I'm sure. A nice house. Where's Carrie? Is she still here? I'm still here. OK, I got the script in front of me and I can't see you, Um, tell a little bit about your brother. He has a book coming out to. He has a spirals this as a new book out, right? He's got a book. I think it's dropped yesterday or today. Uh, and he's unfortunately, he wanted to join us Thio flight to Utah to meet up with his writing partner as we speak. But he has done really interesting work in kind of the young adult middle grade dystopian fiction corner I. It's not the current one, but looking for friends level. But, um Brendan, this with me here's this book. E can't speak for the content of it as well as he can, so I won't even try. But he is definitely producing. We try to write for across all the age levels from adult to the very earliest readers in our family. So we don't leave any any reader unturned on what I just wanted to point out before we move on. But it's so important. I think, that it's really interesting that you and your brother Brendan refers lawyers like your dad on. Then you both switched over to be writers like your mom. So you kind of covered both territories for your parents. You know what it is, what it is. You know, I'm worried I become a lawyer. Yeah, my other sister is the most functional member of society because she's a nurse like that. It used to be oh, functional functional members, as we, the six of us is. Writers were not under the functional category. E O books would be so boring. E o. Various written four novels and they're wonderful. And Kerry, we're waiting for your next one. I'm currently writing the Coben novel to come. So look forward. Thio talk. I have a lot to share with you. That's...

...what I'm writing about you. So you really have to have a glass of wine. Talk about that on Speaking of writing before we keep going This is the moment we love is when we ask our guest author, can you share with us a writing chip and we just Let's get thio Yeah, e for the price of one dio right with your kids, right? E o remember, she'll put the peer pressure on them. So e one of the things I'm often asked about is, um okay, one of the things that I've heard editors come in on let me put that way is that when either professors or scientists write fiction, they make the same mistake over and over and over again. And that is they love their discipline. So they put too much of it in, and they're afraid thio kill their own preciousness. So I would say a tip If you're going to put Lance or any any complicated area of expertise into fiction there, three things you have to keep in mind. You have to keep it brief. You can't just do these these dumps of all this information and you keep it entertaining. You can't. A lot of us have written scientific books textbooks, and you don't have to be entertained. You just have to clear well that doesn't work in fiction. You have to figure out ways to do it and not just do it a straight narrative. And then you have to keep it jargon free as scientists or experts. We rely on all this specialized terminology because we understand each other. You can't do that, so you've got to keep those three things in mind and e think their skills. Kerry could comment on the skills that air similar Thio addressing a jury. You don't want to dumb it down. As an expert witness, you're presenting a complicated piece of information. You don't want to dumb it down. You want to keep it brief, and you want to keep it jargon free and you want to keep their interest. So you want to keep it remotely entertaining. Can I ask you a question about that? Do you ever like, say something, not realizing that like the general public doesn't understand what that ISS I think I'm very wary of that. But if I do, my lets me know okay? So sometimes even just writing Southern fiction like the editor will be like, I have no idea what that means, and I'm like, Really e had no idea that you know Onley, Southerner said that or whatever, that's true. E, you have a chance. But you're gonna surprises, too, and give us a dump to for I'll give you two for I will say that I agree with what she said about science. The same applies toe law. I like to write about medical, ethical, legal issues in my books, and I have to dial it back a lot. I would say two things. One thing I learned from my mom and one thing I learned from Bones. Um, and that is that just because you're not working in a law firm measuring your life in six minute increments, you have to be very disciplined about writing because it is your profession, and it's very easy without discipline to not stay on track. So when I moved to it when I quit my law job and moved to Venice Beach, California, to write my first novel as you dio going it alone and I was very stubborn about a Chinese well, with my mom, I wanted to do this all on my own. But after a couple of weeks, I was just like this is really hard. I thought I was gonna bring from my head fully formed, like Minerva from the head of Zeus, and it's not happening. So I burnt down and I called her and I said, How how many pages do you write a day? And she said, Well, you know, it just...

...depends on what I'm working on if it's heavy science or if it's dialogue, she said. But, you know, I really consider it. I've completed the day if I've written three pages a day, so I thought, Okay, right. I'm going to write six pages. Everybody e clean it up in one, John, because you know, mothers and daughters, Uh, for one thing, is just having your routine and making it, You know, you have to accomplish your work before you can get up. And just because you're not working on a short term deadline, it doesn't change things. Um, and then the other I learned from writing for Bones, is that even though we love our words and we love our anecdotes and our joke on our characters, everything you write really needs to have a reason for existing. That moves the plot forward on when I first wrote. I was like, Oh, no, you know, like, this is funny. People will enjoy this witty dialect back and forth, but it really does Bob you down. And I think that I've learned that you dive right into the action. You don't You don't need a lot of foreplay leading people into your book with your characters. You just get him right. Engaged with something immediately. My mom is the best at end of chapter cliffhangers, like he's really, really good. And I've learned a lot from that from her. I was writing for the bones. You know, these scenes, the end of the scene would have the cliffhanger. So I've tried to incorporate, even though I don't write thrillers more of that in my writing, but really diving right in and keeping the plot always moving forward. Well, I think we're very fortunate. I think everyone out there is writing very fast, I'm sure. Thank you. We got to tonight. This is a real bonus. All right. I have to keep things moving because look at the time. Has anyone has a book? Does anyone have a book that they want to tell us about? Mary Kay? You said you have to do it Is the life the incredible life of Eudora honey set. And, um, I don't I have it, but I don't have it right here. Um, it's by an English author. Her name is Anne Lions. And it's about, uh, elderly lady living in south east London, and she's ready to call it quits. She's cranky and irritable. And then, um, new neighbors move in next door, and there's a little girl and things change her perspective on life changes. And I really love it. So far, that sounds so good s So I want to tell you guys about this one, and I know Kathy. Mary Kay Andrews loves it too, because she blurbed it. But this is by our friend Mary Beth Mayhew Whalen. It is called this secret thing, and I can't. Okay, there we go. On my e Think they just did such a brilliant job on the back? This makes me want to read it. Made me want to read it the minute I saw its secrets and lies. Neighbors and friends, so Oh, no. Like that. You've got a suburban Adam in that book, too. Yeah, well, we love up Mary Beth Mayhew Whalen. So I'm delighted. So we're charging into fall with a fabulous roster of guests. Sean que the video. Excuse me? Mhm. We love that. A that really happy. I love that your name just opens it with e opens anything with a big boom e tell us about just next week. You're the host. Oh, next week, we're going to have a fantastic time because we are going to be talking to Lian Dolan of the Satellite Sisters, which is that...

...hugely popular website, Facebook Group and podcast. And her new book is called The Sweeney Sisters, and I am the oldest of three sisters. And so this book hit me the exact right place. Lian Dolan has pitch perfect humor and spot on sister relationships. And I can't wait to introduce you to her next week, and we will have so many questions for her. And that is what we have going on next week. Um, do we have a graphic for that? I don't know if we do. If not, it's okay. There it is that it's going to be a lot of fun. We've all read the book, I think already so Okay, Now I have to ask Kathy, were you surprised when Carrie came on? Oh, yes. I waas when he was so hoping that the secret wouldn't sneak out. Don't know anything like that, they had no idea. And I'm just glad I said nice things about her earlier, you know? Oh, well, thank you. Happy for joining us tonight, Carrie. Thanks for coming in with surprise and of being Declan and Hazel. And that's our program for tonight. We are really thrilled. I think this was our very first surprise visit episodes. So it was all of us. And again, as the weather chills, I hope y'all cuddle up with something warm and dive into Ah, conspiracy of Bones. You're gonna want some video, cover you up, and you can order right now from Park Road books for the discount of 10% off. And if you're not a member of friends and fiction, we hope you'll join us. Sign up for our newsletter. And if you can't make the live show, please join us on our podcast or our website at www dot friends and fiction dot com And everyone that's a wrap. Goodnight. You everybody away on e What? That was fun. I e That was a great surprise. Itwas that was a really fun surprise. I love that. I love that. We're going to be doing that more boiler for everyone who's still on here. You never know who's gonna be hopping on. E loved the Declan and Hazel Worst Christ us, though we didn't know that kids coming s so good. All the picture she takes the call, the holiday cards. She has those kids. They're They're so beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, well, be too. And speaking of surprises, I had had the word ebb tide We're down a tidy and I left the doors to the deck open. And you could see me doing this. Nats were like chewing my Oh, no So bad right now They're so bad. I don't ever remember having like there like flies and gnats. I feel like every time we try to eat outside their like, flies everywhere and waited a big temperature dropped this morning. And so it's kind of Chris, but literally. I've been outside. I've been holding the bat cave. They're not flies, Sean, There's Yeah. What did you put up? I just got the end of that. M k e Yeah, E. You need to fact check Sean before you put these banners off. Although Sean Spanners make the show. I e. O sand gnats, Meg said. Which is exactly right? That's hilarious. E always cracks me up with kids. Could you imagine writing with...

...your kids? I mean, the whole time she was talking about that, I'm thinking, What if I was writing a book with Meghan or Thomas or like it's a totally different relationship? Being a mom like I've never the most collaboration I've done with my kids is designing a room, right? Like, Can you imagine? Is writing a screenplay or a book? No. Well, when Will has always really liked to build stuff. And there are a lot of, like architects and builders and stuff in his family. And so when he was little, he was like, Mom, When I grow up, we can have a show together on HD TV, and I'll build the houses and decorate them E. Somebody's already done it so well, E. I mean, it was such a It was such a unique con. Eso was typed in our in our chat. Kathy and Katie only one of you would come out alive. Oh, she if you think I'm bossy. Oh, Aussie. Well, I'm afraid if I started writing I with my with my girls and each one is so different, I would have a completely one would tell me you're an idiot. This is the way it's gonna be on the other would be Mom, You're so good. Whatever you are. So I'll let you guess who's e Don't have any problem with that. You know, we talked about my granddaughter, Molly. His 11 on Griffin's a little bit interested, but we We have an idea for a book we'd like to write together, but we all we have is a plot and way Don't even have a plot. We have the the name the title way have this little tiny shrimp boat that we want to write about. Well, Dorothy, a Ben Frank and her daughter Rose Teddy spaghetti together, right Proportion? Yeah. What about you, Kristen? Are you and Noah gonna What? Right. Noah. Noah is just attempting the art of telling jokes now which he doesn't really get. So he'll say like Like what? The milk's favorite cup a cup. But many, All of it. So it makes no sense, but e walk a walk s e feel like to be a lot of like, What would they be like? Jokes that go nowhere. But they'd all end with WACA. WACA and every other four year old in the country would think they were hilarious development stuff. You know, when your year old laugh is you just put the word art in it. Yeah, a lot in our collaboration ship. Me. Oh, maybe you could teach him a knock knock joke. Kristen, we've tried, but everything river act like What's the favorite like? Yeah, Walk. Walk. Yeah, because you won't remember it, But you're totally right. You That's why you're totally right. That's a good thing you were talking earlier about, like words that he mixes up. And there were a few things that I just did not ever want to tell. Well, because they're so sweet, and yeah, well, now he knows on mom. Brain takes over and you lose it all. E think you won't lose any of it. And then yeah. Can I just text your grandchildren? I'm just gonna texted to you guys and you could remind me in 20 years. Okay. What was that thing that I used to say? Yeah, yeah, I'm going to remember anything. You can visit me in the nursing home and being applesauce. Christmas e remember? And I'll say, Who...

...are you? You know what you'll remember. Wacka, wacka, e. It's funny what you remember it really is. I mean, it's so strange. E. I love that e we owe every morning. Great show, Mary. Tomorrow is little Wells birthday. So we owe you've been listening to the friends and fiction podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the friends and fiction podcast wherever you listen. And if you're enjoying it, leave a review. You can find the friends and fiction authors at www dot friends and fiction dot com. A swell as on the Facebook group page. Friends and fiction come back soon. Okay? There are still lots of books, writing tips, interviews, publishing views and bookstores to chat about Goodbye.

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