Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 1 year ago

Friends & Fiction with Tim Ehrenberg and to Laura Taylor

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mary Kay Andrews and Kristin Harmel sit down with two incredible independent booksellers. They talked to Tim Ehrenberg of Nantucket Book Partners in Nantucket, MA, and to Laura Taylor of Oxford Exchange in Tampa, FL. Hear all about their stores, the creative ways they are finding to not just survive but thrive during the pandemic, the importance of shopping local, and their desert island reads.

Welcome to friends and fiction. Five best selling authors, Endless Stories, Friends and Fiction is a podcast with five best selling novelist whose common love of reading, writing an independent bookstores found them together with jets, author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing. Thes friends discuss the books they've written, the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Best selling novelist Mary Kay Andrews, Christine Harmel, Christie Woodson, Harvey Patty Callahan, Henry and Mary Alice Munro are five longtime friends with more than 80 published books. To their credit at the Start of the Pandemic, they got together for a virtual happy hour to talk about their books, their favorite bookstores writing, reading and publishing in this new, uncharted territory. They're still talking, and they've added fascinating discussions with other bestselling novelists, so join them live on their friends and fiction Facebook Group page every Wednesday at 7 p.m. Eastern, or listen and view later at your leisure. Welcome to the friends and fiction podcast. Today we're talking Indies independent bookstores. I'm Christine Harmel, and I'm Mary Kay Andrews Today, we're privileged to talk to Tim Ehrenberg of Nantucket Island and Laura Taylor of Oxford Exchange in Tampa, Florida Now we all know that Indies air the lifeblood of our communities. They are just a place to buy books, as we'll see later in the discussion, but also a place that supports the stories that matter in both our books and our lives. Let me tell you first about Tim Ehrenberg. Tim has been an avid book lovers since before he could even talk. Originally from the Midwest, Tim graduated with a degree in history and religious studies from the University of Wisconsin Madison. Following graduation, he sang, danced and acted his way around the country in various shows before moving to Nantucket Island in 2013. He's the social media director for the Nantucket Book Festival. Ah, books contributor for Nantucket magazine and the marketing director for Nantucket Book Partners, which includes Mitchell's Book Corner and Nantucket Book Work. Welcome, Tim, Hi, Thanks for having me Right to see you or hear you. Thanks for being here with us, Tim. So, first of all, we love indie bookstores. We talk about them a lot on friends and fiction, and so many of our readers adore them for a multitude of reasons. But tell us, why are they so important to not only the authors but to the broader community of readers and writers to, Well, thank you. Once again, I want to thank you so much for having me. It is really, uh, honor to be here with you both. And I want to say, first and foremost that if it wouldn't be for...

...authors like you are, indie bookstores probably wouldn't still be in business because you guys championing our work is what is really, truly what keeps it going. So thank you so much. I recently wrote a little post on Instagram about my love for bookstores that started so early, and bookstores for me were really my toy stores and my candy shops like and they were my books for my video games. I didn't you know, I wasn't really interested in video games. I really just couldn't wait to get a new book. And whenever my parents would take me to the bookstore, I'd just kind of be let free within the shelves. And I always remember. My mom always says that she would come back to find me when it was time to go and I would hide in between the shell, so I wasn't ready. I hadn't decided quite which books I wanted to take home. And my husband said that I still continue to do that to this day when he comes to find me Thio that we have to get going, I'll hide because I was like, I havent decided quite what book. And I think that's just what you know, the joy of bookstores. Your the world is at your fingertips. I always call them kind of the time machine to the future in a time capsule to the path. You know, there's just so much there. I think I I found myself in books. I found friends in books. I found so many things, and that's all you know, libraries to. But a bookstore for me was just one of the best places that I could be. And it still continues to be so the fact that I do this for a living now it's a dream come true and it makes a lot of sense. That's wonderful, Hatim, you're all their interview. Siri's Tim talks books. For those of you who have it, listen to it yet is entertaining and informative. Would you tell us how you how and why you started this and tell us about some of your most memorable interviews and you could also, you know, spill the tea on some of the some of the ways that also is there anybody you're dying to get that you haven't yet? Well, obviously, Mary Kay Andrews and Kristen are mouth way do need. I do need to get you on there. I would really love that. So I started Tim talks books because I mean one of the positive things that have come out of this pandemic. And I hate to say positive. Is someone having a little bit more time to do something Maybe they've always wanted to do and then creating that? And so I earlier in the year, I I think this was another question, too. But Reese Witherspoon was looking for a resident library in, and she put out an all call to send in a video application, and I never usually do things like that. I'm always like there's, you know, there's gonna be thousands and thousands of Why would I do that? But I do come from a career of performing in a history of performing. So I was like, You know what? You're not gonna hear? No, unless you do it or Yes. So I put together an application, and then nothing had really come of it. And I decided when the pandemic happened and I had a little time, I was like, You know what? I could just maybe try this myself. And I really just wanted to talk to some authors Thio, you know, help me through...

...the through all of us through this pandemic. You know, my connections through the book festival in the bookstores. I just You know, I I loved talking to people. So we started. I started with Ellen, who pretty much every day Elin Hilderbrand and Nathaniel Philbrick and Nancy Fair. And then I'm friends with Jodi PICO. And I had so much fun with her. And I think the the thing with Tim talks books for me was just kind of asking authors new questions, not the same questions that they get asked all the time. Like, you know, You know what? Your writing process Not that that's a bad question, but I wanted to just make it a little bit more fun. Like one of my favorite. I do a speed round with every author at the end, and one of my favorite questions to ask them is what their stage name would be. So I'm gonna your first pet and the street you grew up on Andrew's. What would yours be? I would be Moussi serpentine. Yes, I would love to read a book by Moussi. Serpentine. Obviously, it's a It's a picture book. It's a picture. Yes. Okay. Every kid in a bookstore would look if you like. I want the new mostly serpent time. Okay, Kristen Minus terrible. My first pet was a dog named Dr Spots, so I would be doctor spots. Foot Mil e. Think another kids author, obviously. But I would totally pick up both of those books. It's things like that that I wanna you know, E want to talk about everything like the spectrum of this pandemic, and you know, everything that's going on and then something really silly, like your stage name. So right, But you still haven't told us your most memorable interview. My most memorable interview so far, I think waas so every summer? Well, not this summer, but I we would go my husband. I go to visit the Van Lier family or Jodi's family up at their lake house, and we always play games. And so I played a game of charades that Jodi with her book titles, and that was really, really, really fun for me because she we get really into games. And that was how the interview ended. And I also really enjoyed actually talking to Nathaniel Philbrick about how right now we're living through history. Anyone who doesn't know Nathaniel Philbrick wrote in The Heart of the Sea. And he's a historian and a Nantucket local Nantucket author, and it was interesting just to try. And I was a history major in, um in college, And so I was really interested in his takes on what we're living through right now and what people 100 years from now will be writing about and talking about. I'm gonna have to go back and listen to that one. What about the Blue Whale? What's the one you're trying to get but haven't gotten so far? You know, I'm a huge fan of Stephen King and I think I've been reading him e mean far longer than I probably should have on. I would just really I...

...have so many questions. I'd like Teoh. I was really close. I had a one connection through the book festival that had emailed him. And so, Stephen, if you're listening, I would really, really like to interview you. I love him on Twitter. Yeah, he's funny. He's I mean, he's just to someone that I would like just like toe have over for dinner. He is definitely one of my If you could have four people at dinner type questions, he would be one of them. That's awesome. Well, I can't. I, for one, can't wait to come on. It sounds wonderful. If that was a real invitation, I'm in. Well, of course, I just I mean, I said right before the started, I just finished the book of lost names that I just adored it. So congratulations. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And Mary Kay Andrews, I begged, I beg beg the newcomer. I can't my summer ever since now that I can get these books in advanced, I always would have books that come that my summer begins with, You know, Mary Kay Andrews book, but now I get them way earlier. So now my my new year begins with the new. We'll make sure you got really great so I can't wait or it's always summer with Mary Kay Andrews, right? Your bumper sticker quotes somewhere. Eso Tim The Nantucket Book Festival team had to think on their feet this year to bring the festival fully online for the first time ever. Can you tell us a little bit about the challenges and successes involved with that? And what's it looking like for the festival in 2021? Yes, So Michael Schulder, who was on our committee, he just kind of jumped at the chance. I think he kind of always wanted to make the Nantucket Book Festival something a little bit more global. Same thing as me. It was kind of a thing that we had talked about in meetings before. But just when you're planning a four day festival, it's hard toe. Find the time and resource is to start something like this. So it was always something. He has a podcast called wave maker podcast and he interviews a bunch of different people, and he just kind of took with it and ran in. The quality of these videos are just fantastic, and he is a great interviewer as well. We had all our writers lined up because we didn't really cancel until, you know, March. So everything. Everyone was set and we had such a stellar lineup. But like Samantha Power and Mitchell Jackson and Sarah Broom. And so he just virtually interviewed them. It's a it's a really experienced toe. Watch it. It's not just two people talking. It's really ah, videos, pictures of them and pictures of what they're writing about. So it zits so great. We have started meetings about 2021. I feel that, you know, everyone is kind of zoomed out. I feel so we're trying to stay innovative, and not that we won't have those conversations virtual conversations because I think they're important for the people that would never be able to make it. And I know we don't wanna seem tone deaf and just start planning ahead, hoping that everything is going to be...

...back to normal in June of 2021. So you know. I think everyone says they need 2020 the end. But I think January 1st there's gonna be a light switch that everything is. So we're working on it. I think you know, I think there's ways to do events safely in a Nantucket was crowded this summer, but I think we you know, it's such a great community of people that really do care Onda taking the safety precautions that we need to. So I'm hoping for some some in person thing, But don't you know, I don't know for sure, And I think like everyone in the world were just kind of We're just kind of guessing, But do you think the virtual element is gonna change how you do the festival beyond 2021 in the future, like when the world is back to normal? Do you see there being a virtual components down the line now that we've kind of gotten good at it? Yeah, definitely. I think what was so nice is that Michael got to revisit with authors from the last. So this would have 2021 will be our 10th Nantucket Book Festival. And so he revisited with people that we've had five years ago and maybe four years ago, and it kind of, you know, we think of all those authors. I mean, even the authors from 2012, when it started. It is part of the n b A family. So to revisit with them and see what they're working on might not have happened again because we have such a small roster of authors each summer. But it was really great Thio and even, you know, I am interview Louise, Penny and Jodi and people that have been at the festival and Thio revisit with them was really great. So I hope that we continue that because I think it's ways to pull in everybody from the years right now Let's get back to the Reese Witherspoon Book Club application. Eso If you haven't seen it, you need Thio. And we don't understand how you weren't hired from that. Tell us about how you did that and what became of your application. I mean, can we We can still see it, right? Yeah, Well, I don't think I was supposed to post it. One of the rules was your supposed Thio. You know, you're supposed to It's supposed to be there to post. But I think when the pandemic happened she announced that in January and then everything happened And there isn't one. So there is still hope Waken mount up. We can mount a campaign for you e waste. I'm just expecting everyone to be listening. Stephen King Reese Witherspoon Reason If you're listening, I'm still available. I am ready to be your resident library in I you know, I was like, You know what? I would just be so perfect for this job. You and so I was so excited to do it, and I It was a minute and a half video that you have to dio and you're there was all these things you had to include dance moves because she loved to dance, and she loves toe laugh. And so I have everything in there. I have bend in snaps from Legally blonde stepping book...

...thing. I have a scene that I have a book in a bar and she and I have someone saying you have a book in a bar like, uh, sweet home Alabama. Get so have all these things that pull it together. And I was really proud of you and no matter what, even if she didn't see it or if they never have it, I was happy that I got I posted it on my instagram at Tim talks books. And so I am glad that you at least enjoyed it. We're going to start a Twitter hashtag hire Tim, please do Please do. I will follow that page. I am so in. This is like a new mission. Mary Mary Kay. Something else for us to dio. Got it, Tim Eso Tim Nantucket boasts several very high profile hometown authors, as you just mentioned, and Nantucket Book Partners has gotten very creative with the way they market special exclusive authors for people like Nathaniel Philbrick, Nancy There and Elin Hilderbrand. Can you tell us a little bit about the signed books and gift sets and the impact they've had on the bookstores? So I think in the age of selling books online right now, you know, you kind of have to create something that doesn't exist out there because it's hard to compete with. That must not be named E. I understand it, too. At the same time, I mean, some people can't it is more shipping to support a you know, indie bookstore, especially one on an island. But at the same time, I think what we really try to do is create some things that you can't get anywhere else. And our sign gift sets are truly Ellen, Nancy and that come in and I'm sitting there with the book and they can personalize it, you know, to you know, my mom, Martha. And then, you know, you sign all the things. Um, it's wrapped up in tissue paper. It has we included, like an exclusive bookmark. Like for Nathaniel. There's a whale bookmark for Nancy. It's Ah, custom one with her. For Ellen. It's a custom I'd rather be living in. Elin Hilderbrand novel Bookmark, and it's wrapped up in tissue paper. And I mean it truly is something that, like a lot of time, is spent on packing it up and where you know Amazon. You're just a number. You're really not a number. I mean, I'm really refreshing the page of the orders, and I see the order come in and I say, OK, get that or, you know, it's not just me, but the whole staff at Mitchell's and book work. It is just truly something that is priceless you won't be able to get, and there won't be anything like it if it's personalized and it is truly yours, they make a great gift. I think even if you've read the book to have that on your shelf, you'll always have that. You know, I love I usedto, you know, my grandparent's books always had when you gave a gift they would always right in. And I would feel like it would always say to Keith, You know, from And I think that that's something that you know just can stay in history within the family Thio know that your your parents, your grandparent's really enjoyed reading this book. So I feel...

...like they're so they're they're really special. And I think they're the thing that I was really excited to feature to you. Well, you know, Tim, you guys are on an island on Nantucket, so I wanted to ask you Do you have a desert island? Read the one book you would take with you. Just you and your husband and a book. Wow, That is so tough. I think it would have to be the hearts. Invisible Furies by John Boyne. Uh huh. I think that's my favorite book of the last decade. I'm also going to say I mean, East of Eden by John Steinbeck has always been my favorite classic s O that would be up there. I don't know if I could just have one. I don't know. Well, it Czar Island, So I'm going to give you those. Both of those were making the roles. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you two e like this island already. Tim, what do you want to tell our listeners as we head into the holiday shopping season, I think I mean, I kind of mentioned it, but just that, you know, most of the day today I was at Mitchell's and the orders would come through and Sue and I and Christina were going through each one of ones that we had toe, you know, we're small business where, you know, we're very small and but yet were operating with the loyalty of customers or people that, you know, Ellen and not Nancy have been so gracious with their time and with their being able to put that out there to support us and that it's just something that I don't know of. Our doors would be open without things like that. So I think it's just that yes, shipping might be a bit more. And you, you know, everyone is used to prime shipping that is free. And then you see a priority mail. That's, you know, $678 and you kind of you're shocked because it's really not a thing anymore. You know, I think just know that the appreciation in the and the love that goes into wrapping up your books, you're getting your books ready or the signing of them or the inclusion of a bookmark is something that is really important. And I think you see shopping, local and supporting local so much. But then just really realizing it, that it's like, Oh, wow, there are probably only two or three people that are really doing all of this and and getting it together and that it's ah, more of an experience to get your book than just you know, it thrown in with some laundry detergent. Yeah, there are really I love that there are really people on the other end of that experience and they're choosing books, the recommending books, they're wrapping them and we have a conversation mean they'll be We'll see. Uh, we'll see a book order for, you know, the book of Lost Names or Beach Town and they we'll talk about it like if we you know, if we've read that, it will be like, Oh, I have to read that or I've saw that somewhere. So, like the staff talks about it sometimes if there's people in the store, then you know that. So it's like a whole lots going on with your order that you probably don't even really realize. I...

...love that because it's kind of that idea that even if we're not able to go into your bookstore right now, we're still in a way going into your bookstore. I mean, we're still having that interaction, even if we don't know it, which I think is kind of a beautiful thought. Yeah, definitely. Well, Tim, it's been so wonderful to have you with us, and I hope we're all sitting down face to face to have these discussions really soon to talk about books, to talk about community and to talk about our favorite laugh out loud stories with you. Thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, thank you. It was my pleasure. And I really appreciate you having me on. Thank you so much and happy holidays and stay safe. You too way welcome. Laura Taylor Flores, the bookstore and programming director for Oxford Exchange in Tampa, Florida right across the bay from my hometown and Christians, Oxford Exchange began with a mission to create something that would cultivate community and conversation designed in the spirit of human engagement. Oxford exchanges, ultimately a gathering place housing a collection of ideas and experiences under one roof Justice, the Name Exchange suggest they drew inspiration from the historic clubs, libraries and shops of London whose charm in history seemed to spark spontaneous social interaction. Oxford exchanged opened its doors in 2012 with the restaurant, champagne bar, housewares event, space, shared workspace and a full line of branded merchandise. It's so much more than just a bookstore. Welcome, Laura. Hi. How are you today? Good. We're so thrilled to talk to you first. Tell us. You know, we all give lip service to indie bookstores and we love them. And if you're listening to this. You know we love them. But first, tell us why indie bookstores air so important not just to the authors but the community of readers and writers. Well, you know, for me, one of my first memories with the bookstore was sitting on the floor with stacks of books and just, you know, Piled piling them all up and thinking about, you know, kind of the all the possibilities and all the secrets and all the stories. And I feel like today we still need that. You know, when you walk into a bookstore, you're walking really into the bookshelf of the community. So it really reflects upon, you know, the thoughts, what people are talking about. You know, the customers I know for us is an independent bookstore. We restock the books that sell, so you know, if if we know there's an author or a style, it's it's really tailored to our customers and what our customers love and and what they buy and just conversation. I can't think of the various things and just the variety of everything that we talked about with our customers, and I love it. It's always kind of funky, so I love that idea of it being a the bookshelf of the community that was so well put. And such a reminder of why...

...independent stores in every community or so important. So Laura, on the Oxford exchange website, you have a great quote from Einstein. If at first an idea isn't absurd, there is no hope for it. Does that mean something in relation to your store? Oh, absolutely. Oxford Exchange is owned by a sister and brother, Blake Casper and Alison Adams. And, you know, they had the idea. They wanted a bookstore and then ah, restaurant and they saw the space. And then it became an event space and a commerce club. And they wanted it to look a little bit like, otherworldly, like Europe. And, you know, everyone was like, Well, that's crazy. That's absurd. Nobody's gonna want to go to that, you know, bookstores, air dying. You're never going to do well with that. And you know, the shops. And it just seemed a little too kind of vague and bizarre. Nobody could imagine what it would be like, and people thought they were crazy. So that was probably about two years in the building and now, 10 years later and, you know, it's just it's fantastic. So I think there are other places like it. It's it's really got a great heartbeat. You know, we really it feels like a busy train station or hotel lobby. And it just has. It was this crazy idea that people really didn't think it was going to work, and it really did. So you know, I love old anything old, especially historic buildings. And I know Oxford exchange his house in a historic building. How what was the building before? And how does that history play into the space that you all have planned and experience you offer there? Well, you know, Tampa has University of Tampa's right across the street, and there was the old Tampa Hotel, so there's a rumor and historians sometimes debated, but we're pretty sure that it used to be an old horse stable, uh, for the hotel across the street. So in the design, there are different things that were really kept from the old building. There was basically the arcade, which was where the two streets were joined throughout the building. So we really do have a long hallways that joins Kennedy and Grand, which you could walk down. And it's also sloped, which is how they used to make horse stables, because the water would be able to drain down. So it still has that slope in a way, and in effect, when you walk into the bookstore, it's like you're really kind of walking down into a ramp, and it's just kind of slowly pushing you down to the restaurant in the coffee and ultimately, the champagne bar. Kristen, I cannot wait to visit that store once. Cove it is over, I'm telling you, it's like the best place in the universe. I'm not even Yeah. Um, s O you just mentioned all of these places within the walls of Oxford Exchange. Um, And as you pointed out, the champagne bar being my favorite. And you know, of course, why not? Eso? Oxford Exchange has such a variety of offerings under one roof. Do you think that being so...

...diversified has helped you to survive during the pandemic? Yes. Yeah, 100%. You know, for us in that terrible time, when everything was closing, the restaurant was able to operate as it to go facility. So to give you an idea. With all the the businesses together, we have over 100 people that work here. And so when we had to close down and we were basically, you know, down to just, you know, the manager. So there were about eight or nine of us in the building and, you know, being able to even have you know that to go side of it, where we could have people in the building to do that really helped, you know, we were still able Thio keep some people on the payroll for that. And in addition, you know, we were able to suggest to people that okay, if you're picking up your to go pick up a book, you know, or pick up a candle from the shop or, you know, and so on the on the to go menu, the food menu, we would have it would be a chicken burger and, you know, a book, you know, maybe untamed or something. So we would take one or two books every day, and we have the John Grisham or something or the Eric Larson. I can't remember the books that were landing at that time, but it was really hard because anyone who released a book during the pandemic I mean they were just really they didn't get the do you know, popping circumstance. But we know it is so hard. So so it did help. It really helps toe have diversity and different things in the building, just like everything it's It's just, you know, it's great having that. So now if the name of the Oxford Exchange sounds familiar to our friends and fiction family, that's because they're the store that is currently offering Are Amazing Friends and fiction for subscription club. Laura. Would you tell us about the partnership and how it was conceived and how it How's it going so far? Oh, wow, it's fantastic. It's so fun. Um, it's just the whole idea that Kristen had contacted me and she wrote this really long email and you could tell she writes books. You know, long emails s so well thought out it was perfect and everything was there. And I think my answer was probably five words absolutely awesome. Um, then, you know, just like love it. Yes, we could do that. So it was just, you know, it's such a great idea. We have, ah, First Edition Club, and I think we've just always, Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. But to be able to see five authors get together and really kind of, you know, take control of it and, you know, put it in a way that is easy for their fans to get and to read and to really join along in the journey throughout the year as the new books come and to be able to partner with the bookstores. It's such a great, different way about it. So because we dio there's been another author...

...partnership that we've been lucky tohave this year, and, um, that's really the one good thing that's come out of Cove. It is the reality that or the realization that we can partner with authors directly and together we can, you know, get the books to the readers, you know, So it's great. We're definitely happy to do it. I'm a little afraid of the fulfillment that's gonna happen in 2021 but right now I feel like it's an If you build it, they will come type of things. So once we have all this business and then we're going to figure out how are we going to fulfill all of these folks? Yeah. For those of you who don't know the friends and fiction First subscription services, all five of us, we all have books coming out. Pretty much rapid fire. Starting in March of 2021 with Patty Henry and then Christie Woodson. Harvey is April and I'm May and Mary. Alice Munro is May. And then bringing up the rear is Christian. We do. You get a month off, right? Yeah. Christian will be out in July, Right. You subscribe? Yeah. If you belong to that club, subscribe. Do we hope everybody will? You'll get those books and you'll get a tote. If you subscribe pretty soon before Christmas, you'll get one of these really cool ornaments that Kristen did you design on Kristen? Oh, I mean, if if by design you mean slept our logo on the bottom and then type some words under it, Yes, that's what. Anyway, that's what that ISS and you know. And of course, all the books are signed. First edition. So it's It's a really unique thing to get. And it's funny, Laura, that you mentioned receiving the email for me because I'm sure. You know, I did my best to sound cool, calm and collected. But we were like, we hope she likes us. We hope she wants to do this, you know? And then you said the email back and we were all together, and I think I ran into the kitchen. It was like she wants to talk to us. She wants to talk to us. So it was, You know, we were as excited as you were, and we're just thrilled to be doing this partnership with you. I think there might have been champagne involved too, Right? Right. Mary Kay. Yes, there was definitely. We were all together on my beach house on Tybee Island. Um, so, Laura, thanks so much for joining us today. But I've got one last question. And I just asked our other bookseller Tim from Nantucket Books. What is your desert island read? You know, the one book that if you were shipwrecked, you would have to have with you. Okay, First of all, this is a very unfair question, because it's just not fair toe. Have to pick one book. Well, we did let Tim have to So you can have. I'll let you have a second one. Well, actually, what I thought about is that being a bookseller, I've heard and I know it's something among a lot of booksellers that every bookstore needs at least one copy of infinite jest. Uh, but I have never read it, so I because it's just so daunting. And it's so huge on there's all of these, you know,...

...additions and subtext and everything. So I think if I had to choose one, it would definitely be infinite just because it would last me a while. And so, you know, I was rescued. That is a fantastic answer. I could deliberate. So yeah, that's a great way. I would, certainly. Anyway, Laura, thank you for joining us today and everybody else Keep your ears out for MAWR. Fascinating, bookish interviews coming up from the friends and Fiction podcast. I'm Mary Kay Andrews and I'm Christine Harmel, and this has been the friends and fiction podcast. Join us again. Soon you've been listening to the friends and Fiction podcast. Be sure to subscribe to the friends and fiction podcast wherever you listen, and if you're enjoying it, leave a Review. You can find the friends and fiction authors at www dot friends and fiction dot com, as well as on the Facebook group Page. Friends and fiction come back soon. Okay? There are still lots of books writing tips, interviews, publishing news and bookstores to chat about goodbye.

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