Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 2 weeks ago

Friends & Fiction with Vivian Howard

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Join us as we welcome award-winning cookbook author, TV personality, chef and restaurateur, Vivian Howard. Her first cookbook, DEEP RUN ROOTS, was a New York Times bestseller and was named “Cookbook of the Year” by the International Association of Culinary Professionals. Vivian created and stars in the public television shows Somewhere South and A Chef’s Life, for which she has won Peabody, Emmy and James Beard awards. Vivian runs the restaurants Chef & the Farmer in Kinston, NC; Benny’s Big Time in Wilmington, NC; and Handy & Hot and Lenoir, both in Charleston, SC. In October 2020, Vivian released her second cookbook, THIS WILL MAKE IT TASTE GOOD. She joins us one week out from Thanksgiving to talk about her blockbuster shows, southern food, her storytelling cookbooks and some cooking tips for the upcoming holidays.

Welcome to Friends and fiction for newyork times. Bestselling authors, endless stories, novelists, mary Kayandrews, Kristin Harmel, Kristy Woodson harvey and Patti Callahan Henry. R fourlong time friends with more than 70 published books between them together.They host friends and fiction with author interviews and fascinatinginsider talk about publishing and writing to highlight and supportindependent bookstores. They discussed the books, they've written the booksthey're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books andyou're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hi everyone, it is Wednesday night andthat means it is time for Friends and fiction. It's our most favorite nightof the week and tonight we are so excited to introduce you to VivianHoward along with our superstar guest co host Ron block. Our christian is outtonight for her brother's wedding and we're thrilled that Ron has joined usto talk to Vivian, I am Patti Callahan Henry, I'm Kristy Woodson Harvey, I'mmary Kay andrews and I am round block and thank you for having me herebecause it feels like in the old days when I used to get invited from thekids table to the grown ups table which is perfect for tonight. Rightdefinitely, I love my buddy, I prefer the kids table to be honest and there'smore wine at the grown up table that I changed my mind and this is friends infiction for new york times. Bestselling authors, endless stories to supportindependent bookstores this evening. Not only do we have our rock style rockstar librarian and host of our writer's block podcast, but our guest for theevening is Diddy and Howard. We'll be talking about her blockbuster shows,Southern food, her storytelling cookbooks and possibly even ask her fora few tips for the upcoming holidays. We even have a surprise cover for youin the middle of the show, So keep your eyes out as you know, we continue toencourage you to support independent booksellers when and where you can. Andone way you can do that is to visit our own friends and fiction bookshop dotorg page where you can find Vivian's books and books by the four of us inour past guests at a discount bookshop dot org gives a portion of each sale toindependent bookstores. And it also helps support the show. So if you enjoywatching this is a great way to support our guests, independent bookstores andthe Friends of Fiction group all at the same time. And have you heard about our excitingpartner this month and next month it's a perfect timing. I think it'sbutterball Turkey, We're especially excited about this because it means weget to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the fame Turkey talk line, which Ilike to call anyway just to talk to those people. They're awesome. Um Icrank calls on thanksgiving just to make sure you join us on our talkingTurkey with butter ball after show tonight we'll be chatting about thehistory of the turkey talk line and mentioning some of our favorite turkeyrecipes, which will be sharing with you in november and december. And this week let's talk about theparade essay. Kristen wrote an essay for a monthly column for Parademagazine and of course it's all about thanksgiving and the time when she wasin her late twenties and she had an idea to throw a friend's giving, Shefound herself suddenly cooking dinner in a rush for 10 people. Well that'sour Christian, taking care of everybody. Soon she realized that thanksgivingreally is not about panic cooking but it's more about the time we spend witheach other. And she gives us some stress free cooking recipes from ourguest today, the turkey hotline, Turkey Talk Hotline. And I think we've evengot some recipes from us in there. She included us and as our guest Viviantoday says and is quoted in Kristen's article, Thanksgiving can be anything.You want it to be. The holidays are all about breaking bread with friends andfamily and being grateful for what we have. Yeah, so be sure and go check outthe essay on parade dot com and on our facebook page um and go and read itbecause you'll want to see this recipe for salt and butter roasted pecans thatI'm already making. Um and speaking of thanks, we want to give a big shout outto our friend Anisa Armstrong who you all know if you're on the page for allher time and energy coordinating our...

...launch day. Love each and every Tuesday.We love sharing the love for fellow authors with new books releasing eachweek. And ELISA spends loads of time gathering these for us. We are sograteful. Thank you Anisa. There she is with print to and lisa and I, I loveall the flat us is that's really, really you are in their run. You know,there's a flat run. All right, y'all right now I want to introduce our guest,Vivian Howard, an award winning cookbook author, tv personality chef,restaurant Air and all around, interesting and kind person agreed her first cookbook, deep run rootsstories and recipes from my corner of the South was released in 2016. It wasthe new york times bestseller and named cookbook of the Year by theInternational Association of culinary Professionals in october of 2020 shereleased her second cookbook. This will make it taste good. A new path tosimple cooking astounding. Vivian also created and stars in the publictelevision shows Somewhere south and a chef's life for which she has wonpeabody Emmy and James Beard awards. That's gonna be the hat trick. Right,that's right. So yeah, impressive. She runs the restaurant chef and the farmerin kinston north Carolina. Benny's big time in Wilmington's and handy and hotand lenore in charleston south Carolina and I am personally so excited to haveher today. I've known her for a long time and um, she is an amazing personand man, if anybody can teach you how to make something taste good, it isVivian because her food is definitely life changing as her stories in thatbook. Yeah, she opens up double whammy. Yeah. Alright, let? S bring Vivian onsean. Hey, made me feel so um, I was flushing. Thank you. So aren't you gladthat you didn't have to sit with your face on screen while we were saying, Iwould have never done that. I would have laid down on the floor. Just turnthe camera. That's why we do that so we can talk about you behind your back.We'll welcome Vivian. We are so excited that you're here. I know I said it offcamera, but I'll say it here if you could see our text string in the pastcouple days, we have been raving about this cookbook and talking about whatwe're each going to make. I made the nuts yesterday and I'm going all theingredients for the little green dress. Done it. Yeah. And so mary Kay y'allgonna be really jealous when I tell you this story. But I got to get an earlycopy of this cookbook and it had a jar of Vivian's red devils already. So itwas like, I can make it taste good and I don't even have to do anything. Great.Yeah. I took advantage of her mail order things during the pandemic. Yeah,I got to try all of the things like the little green dress. So amazing grace.How are you? We'll probably get there but we'll get there for sure. Butbefore we dive into all the fascinating things in the cookbook and tips and the fascinating combination ofstorytelling and cooking. I love how you open the book, the line in thefront that says, there are stories in this too because Ilike to write them. They're a glimpse of the people, challenges, triumphs andlessons learned. I love this that stock the pantry of who I am. I love that. Sobefore we dive deep into where it came from and the things inside, I want youto tell us about this will make it taste good. Um Well, you know, I had written thislike, you know, kind of historical document cookbook that I really felt umrepresented the food of eastern north Carolina, a very small place and alsoum the stories behind the food and writing that book, I found that likewhat I really love doing was writing the head notes and writing the essaysand the stories and you know, I can write a recipe and I love inflictinglike natural voice into a recipe. Um but what I felt like was reallysuccessful in my first book um was the narrative quality of it. And And soafter that it's like where do you go after writing a 600 page thing, youknow, you go to bed, like uh I'm sure...

...you all understand like this idea oflike a two book deal, like, you know, I've never written a book before, Deeprun roots and so I signed this two book deal and I'm like, oh my God, likeoriginally I thought oh I can write a million books, but I just wrote like amillion books, one book. And and so the second one was a real challenge for mebecause I proposed a number of things that were like shot down um a lot and I kept coming back to this 11of the ideas was this um book that was like, I wanted to write something verysimple, like simple Vivian, because I read the reviews on amazon every dayfor a year for deep run roots and I know, but I mean I would have keptreading and they weren't positive, it's what I have come to understand um as arestaurant tour, like reviews, I don't know, I have a different relationshipwith them, I think. Um but so I read those and one of the things that I, youknow, read over and over was I want something simple, I want the recipesare too complicated in this book. And so that was like my diatribe, you know,writing my second book and I had this whole idea for, you know, like four orfive ingredient recipes and then the last, the last chapter in the book wascalled This will make it taste good. And it was like, if you want to makeall these other recipes really great in this book, make all these condiments.And that was the only part of the book that I was excited about writingbecause I had stories attached to them. And so I proposed to flip the wholeidea on its head and write this book about these flavor heroes, thesecondiments that we have made at chef and the farmer um for years. And thatwhen I stopped working at chef and the farmer so much that I would like breakinto the restaurant at night and like steal these condiments, take them homewith me so that I could like make really simple food exciting At home.And so that's what it's about. There's 10 chapters, each one is about one of thesecondiments, but I get to give them identities and um and personalities andnames and I don't have fun. That's cool, very cool. It's very cool. For sure.Well, the book is, is a joy uhm recently major sauerkraut in it andit's, it's like you said, it's like that's the main thing, but then you canuse it for so many other things beside it. It's delicious. But how did thisbook come out of Covid? Was it written before Covid? Or during Covid? So I hadstarted writing it like earnestly in august, maybe july august. And um andthen Covid happened in March. And so I had almost finished it in March, likewriting it, but not the essay portion, not really the narrative portion andthen all this happened. And um and you know, the pandemic happened and we shutthe restaurant down and like we're looking for a way to uh have a revenuestream to keep some people employed and also just have some purpose. Like mywhole life has always been about work. Like if I don't have work to go to that,I just disintegrate. Um and so, you know, the book was happening and I wasalso watching all these people on social media like cooking and likereally engaged in cooking and I'm like, and but really bored by it too. And so,oh my God, this book like these condiments, this is what people need.And so finishing the book like got me through the beginning of Covid. Andthen like as you said, Ron y'all, you ordered some our red weapons and littlegreen dress. We sold these pandemic, you know, kind of care packages, notcare packages of survival kits um with recipes in ways to use the condiments.And it was like a lifesaver, I mean, it literally, and then, you know,everybody thought the pandemic was gonna last a month, but at last weremember that part, we finished right, I finished writing the book, wefinished shooting the book, we sold the several of the condiments from the book.And then the book came out all during the pandemic. So it was like wow, thisnever ending and I guess we're still in it. So we are. But the operative wordthrough all this is pivot. I think you really had to pivot as also many of usdid and you you kind of pivoted and with your television personality too,because I think I read that you said with the chef's life, I'm not doingthis anymore, I want to do this other thing. And then so something new cameout of that. I mean that's hard for any of us to do, but how did you approachthese changes? Um you know, I think that you would geta different answer from the people around me, but I really I I can only dothings that I...

I feel like I I feel good about, you know, umand so like a chef's life, I just couldn't do it anymore. And so I I hadyou know, and so I stopped and I wanted to do something else. You know, I thinkthat um things I I what I've learned about myself and it's been a lot oftherapy that should have answered the question about um what I've come toknow during the pandemic that I can't do without his therapy. Um And whatI've learned is that I really love creative endeavors, I love the beginning of them.I love the middle of them. That's why I love books so much is because it's like,you know, you you you go on this journey and you know, when it's gonnaend and you know, like kind of the process and it's like a creativeexplosion in the beginning. And and but then it ends. And so I've learned thatabout myself and my restaurant projects, my book projects, my televisionprojects. Um and I also understand that when I'm not like fully present thingsare not really that successful, that I'm a part of. And so I feel like myown personality and eccentricities and quirks have forced me to pivot and thatwas around me. I don't know if that's wonderful, but it is it is uh myreality. I think it is. Yeah, and the receiving and it's wonderful. And it'sexactly what you say when you open the book with your quote to the corners, wefind ourselves in force novel and creative ways out. I feel like that'swhat you just described. Yes. Yes. And that's like that. Um you know, we allhave these survival mechanisms in our in our lives and mine has always beento throw myself in something creative and it could be like a dish on a on themenu when everything is burning around me and I can just like survive becauseI can make that and focus on that or a book or you know, um or a tv project.Um it's my survival mechanism. Yeah, we said, we said that a couple times aboutwhat we're doing, that it was our, our salvation and when everything else wasburning around us, you could funnel your creative energy into this or intothe book. But the writing in this cookbook is have to be honest, is astasty as the recipes. And I loved hearing your stories, I can now thatI'm hearing your voice, I can even hear your voice in the essays. They're soauthentic and I love your pep talk at the cookbook says, I love it, you can,and what would Vivian do? I just, it's amazing. So how do you see storytellingand recipes as partners because obviously they are um, well, I'vealways thought that I'm like a far better storyteller than I'm I am a cook.And so like our, I mean, I think I'm a good cook, but um there are a lot ofgreat cooks out there. So at chef and the farmer, I found we always had moretraction when there was a story attached to a recipe, you know, peoplewere more interested in that they gave you no more time to consider and um,and so I feel like that is at the root of kind of what I do is um blending andfood and, and thought and purpose and history and um and, and food issomething that we all engage in and we all, you know, we have this wholemantra of like we were gonna sit around the table and talk and and at thismoment when we were breaking bread at the moment that we're sharing. But forsome reason we have a hard time taking food out of the context of food. Idon't know, it's it's interesting to me in that like they're not, there havenot been that many narrative cookbooks written, you know, where where therecipes relate or the head notes really relate to something bigger than justlike what you're making for dinner. Um when food is such a huge part of ourlives um I think it makes it more interesting to cook when, when whatyou're cooking or making or baking. I like baking better than cooking, butwhen, what you're baking or making has a story behind it because reading thefront end material made me even more excited to try and make the littlegreen dress or the nuts or that then I could use in something else And maryKay did that, you did that in your cookbook? You put store not yeah, noton, not on the level that Vivian,...

Vivian did. Um you know Vivian, yourfirst restaurant was at the forefront of the farm to table movement and indeep run, you talked about the challenge of offering farm grownhealthy food to a community that had grown away from their rural roots andhad really formed more of an attachment to cheap fast or processed food. Nowwith the new book, you're continuing your mission of trying to lure cooksback two simple sort of, I don't know, would you call it clean eating? You know, I don't know that. I'd callit clean eating. One of the things that I've always advocated for is like, um,just buying whole ingredients and you know, I live in, in rural northCarolina and so whenever I write a cookbook, um, from this will make it taste goodforward. I didn't take this into account with deep roots because it wasvery like region specific And I had a whole chapter on muscadine grapes, butwhenever I write a cookbook moving forward, it's like, can you buy this atall of these ingredients at any walmart in America? You know? Yeah. When youwere, we were talking about, you talked about how many of us were in thekitchen during covid putting putting, we were putting up preserves and bakingsour dough bread and gardening. Do you think you're seeing progress in yourcommunity and in the country at large towards more of using whole freshingredients instead of um, Uh, you know, whipped topping and tub from the free.100%. Yes. Yes, I would say, you know, in my community alone and which iswhere I feel like there was a lot of, a lot of space to catch up. Um, I thinkthat it's all about generations and the younger generation across socioeconomicgroups, I think cares more about what they eat and cares more like justthinks about it more. Um, true and, and there's small little steps, you know,we didn't all start going to Mcdonald's like every night either, you know, thatwas a top, that was a top down, like, you know, rich people went to Mcdonaldsfirst and then that's how it became cool. Um, and so I think thatabsolutely we're moving in the right direction. Um, we largely have to, uhyeah, do you see another movement coming,another food movement coming that you're gonna surf the wave of, maybeyou'll pioneer it. Um, well, I am working on a new project that I'mreally excited about and it's really probably too early to come on. Well, Ireally believe that one of the exactly early for us. Well, I'm just, you'reamongst the very basic. So this idea of, um, you know, I've written about ruralwisdom for a long time and the food that um, this will make it taste goodrepresents in the food that deeper and rude represents deeper roots representsis really founded in this idea of like the food of the frugal farmer or peoplewho grow most of the food that they eat and so in this new world that we're inlike facing climate change and, and, and really having to consider the waythat we move forward, the way that we consume the way that we cook the foodsthat we eat, um so much of the precursors that the messages that weget about, what we do directly reflect back to the way that rural people havealways eaten less, mean don't waste anything. Um you know, uh and and so Iwant to do something that is uh, that looks forward but is really rooted inthe wisdom and the traditions of uh rural people who really placed a lot ofvalue on food and land. And I think that that's been lost in so many ways.Um I don't think it's something that we acknowledge as a culture and societyand I think it's important because we're trying to find all these newsolutions and I think they're incredibly important as well, but wewere doing things right for a period of time, oh I'm in for this it wrong, I'mgonna call you, it reminds me I think you're going to get this wrong, butyour mom said something or maybe you said that your mom said that a sweetpotato has everything that you need. I think about that all the time. Yeah,everything you need is in a sweet potato. So if anyone's getting sick,I'm like, oh we need a sweet potato because I love it, you know, it's funnyto like reading the book and um and knowing all the players in it, you know,like especially like I feel like I know like Lorraine really well from doingPilates with her every morning for...

...years and you know, things like that.It's just it was so fun to get to, you know, read these essays and feel like Igot this like real glimpse into you know, your family and which I guess Iguess we all did on a chef's life. I mean, I guess we really did. But um youare extremely honest in this book which you know, we've talked about before. Ithink we talked about on the podcast but about how you felt after thisbreakthrough success of your first cookbook. This massive hit show. Thisincredibly I'm having feedback. Mm hmm. I have an echo. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I hate that so much when it happens andyou're like, I'm just going to keep going. You can hear it in your own earand I'm crazy. Is that better? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um but you're really honestabout how you had all these expectations on you after that likeeverything was going so well for you and it just felt really, really heavy.And I think, you know, in some ways all of us are living this public life.Maybe not as much as you, but in some ways we are. Um how do you manage thatand have your ideas around, you know the expectations of that shiftedbecause I think especially in the beginning it's really hard because youfeel like you have such a responsibility to every single personout there. Yeah, I mean it's been a big issue for me, you know, um just beingin such a rural place and and having a show in particular that was like, solike I was just bear on it, you know, people thought that they knew me and sopeople were traveling from all over the world to come eat there and I'm notthere and then it's like, it's such a huge disappointment for them and Icould feel it like in every, every part of my life and that's one of the thingsI write about and this will make it taste good. Like I I charted anotherway home from my office, so I didn't have to ride past the restaurant andsee how many people on any given night that I was disappointing. And so Covidactually has been a big gift for me because um it's kind of like fuck it, you know? Uh sorry? Um but iis it you can only give so much to people andI'm a people pleaser. That's another thing that I really write about and andso it's like if I engage with someone, I'm going to try to please them. SoCovid has allowed me to just like put up some boundaries, like I don't haveto do that if I don't want to um and the tv thing to uh has been interestingbecause I've always seen tv for me as a means to an end, to be able to writebooks and to just be like, financially, just to be able to do projects that Iwant to do, I don't necessarily enjoy being on tv but people with us except,Right, right, you're very well, you're engaging on to you right now, you can,yeah, we all want to do things that we are good at, right? And so um you know,through covid, I it's like, do I want to be on tv and and do it? And whatI've come to the conclusion of is that I want to do, I want to do tv oranything that puts me in the public sphere if it really matters, It feelslike a sacrifice in some ways, so I'm not gonna do it to like earn a livingbecause I know I can earn a living in other ways, so it's like, it's justgoing to contribute to something that is bigger and important, what I believeis important. And so that yeah, wow, it makes up to talk a lot aroundhere, talk about all of that, you're always putting things on the scaleright? Is it, is it worth it? Is it important? Yeah. Is it important? Andpeople pleasing is every single person on the screen has to navigate that,which is I think why we're in creative fields, it's probably to get ourselvesright. It's probably why for me it's why I started writing when I would getin trouble as a kid. Yeah, we're not why I started writing, but I think Iknew I was good at it. I would like, right, I would get sent to my room orwhatever and I would write a little account of what happened from myperspective. And then I would just like leave my room and like throw it on thekitchen table and leave, you know, go in the yard or something and know thatmy family would slowly, you know, gravitate toward it and read it. Andthen I would come in and everything would be good and and so it was like, yeah, my original people please our Iguess, you know, I listened to um Katie...

Couric's podcast about her new bookgoing there and she talked a lot about being a people pleaser and how thataffected her career and brought 40 years in broadcasting. And it was yeah,it's something all of us. I think if you were not, I don't think of myselfreally is in the public eye. But you know, when someone write you anemail, you are people stop you on the street and go, oh my God, are you maryKay andrews that Yeah, you want it, you want to please everyone. But sometimesyou just have to pull back. She doesn't care about pleasing us. She justdoesn't she just says notice she found her boundaries in one place, that'swhat my Children say, they're like, you you're cool, like talking, you know,giving everybody else everything, but you know, it's like, yeah, you can,yeah, you know, somebody in the questions is asking about your ChildrenVivian. Um I see one that says um now that your Children are older, dothey like to cook? No, I think that they're from arestaurant family. Yes. And you know, I have I have had a lot of issues withthat. Um Hence therapy, Pandemic therapy, you know, it's like virtualtherapy is great, you can get almost any time, but uh food has always beensuch a hot button issue in my house, you know, it's like my work, it's Ben'swork, you know? Um It's it's the thing that takes me in large part away fromthem as they see it, whether it's writing cookbooks or you know, and soit's not, and and also I'm incredibly impatient um you know, in the kitchen,it's like I I want them to do what I asked them to do and they don't and umand so it's not been a safe happy place for us. Um It's I find that I am betterengaging with them in in places where I'm also learning. Um So yeah, there'snot only a question, but a man wrote in named steven Vaughn. And he saidspeaking of pleasing somebody, he said, I'm a 70 year old man born in FarmvilleVirginia, raised near D. C. But never have I lost my country roots and that'swhy I'm here. Plus I lost my wife 13 years ago and can't cook. Vivian hastaught me a lot, wow, that's beautiful. Thank you. Isn't that beautiful? So ifyou're wondering if you're making a difference, that's amazing. Um mary Kay,you wanna pull another question? Yeah, let's see why was Stephen says mymother used to take cookbooks to bed. Like most of us take novels. I thinkshe would have loved your idea of combining a narrative with the recipesand you know, I did the same thing. I'm locked, I'm on I'm on lockdownfinishing the book, but I took the cookbook to bed with me the other night.Yeah, we were texting about it. It's funny. Yeah, I think that, you know, inin this, in today's world where you can, you know, if you want to make chickenwith brussels sprouts and olives for dinner, you can google chicken withbrussels sprouts and olives and find, you know, any number of things like iffor me, cookbooks need to bring more value than just recipes and just likelame like opening like head notes. I want something that is like fullyfleshed out and really creative and and I want it to be more like way more thanjust recipes. I can't tell you the last time I actually made a recipe from acookbook, but I love cookbooks. So um and I think there's a lot of peoplethat feel that way that's immersive an immersive. And I always want to knowmore about the person writing it or more about the recipe or more about thetheir recipe for success or their restaurant. And so yeah, we have a lotof questions for you, but I'm going to be selfish and ask one of my ownbecause that's awesome. We were talking about butter ball at the beginning ofthe show. It's Turkey time. And do you have any tips for us about, you knowhow to make our turkey taste good, you know, turkey is not the easiest thingin the world, but what I would recommend and I recommend this with notonly turkey, but if you're cooking a...

...whole chicken, any whole bird isspatula cocking it. Do you know what I mean by that? So if you are not buyinga frozen turkey, buying it from a butcher, you can probably ask ifthey'll do this for you. But if not it is really really easy. So whenever youscratch cock bird, all you do, it has to be thought. So just know that, butall you do is cut the backbone out. Like you can use a knife, you can usekitchen shears, cut the backbone out and then take the bird and flatten itand just like press down on it. So essentially you're taking this wholelike steaming like mechanism that is the cavity of the bird. That is aterrible way to cook something and removing it and you're cooking it on aflat surface. So for one, you're gonna like cut down on the cooking timetremendously for two, it's gonna cook more evenly. So that would be, if Icould tell you anything, I could tell you about brining, I can tell you aboutsoaking in buttermilk, I can tell you about all kinds of things. But if youscratch cocker bird and, and I would also recommend this isa great tip. So get um, taking some like rustic sour dough bread or anykind of chewy european bread. Put it, you know, cut it into um, you know, Iwould buy a loaf like this and like slice it in half like one slices, putit underneath the turkey. Okay, just underneath the turkey andbut only this patch cocked because if you put it underneath the turkey andits whole, it'll take too long and the bread will burn. But put it underneaththe turkey. But some herbs underneath that if you want like some rosemary orsome time whatever lemon and then roast it like that on a sheet tray with thebread underneath it and you won't even like want any stuffing that bread isgoing to be the best thing you've ever had. Now. Can you still get the panjuices for your gravy. Um Yes, yes. And actually for a bettertutorial on how to do this, you should look in this will make it taste good.Little green fresh chapter and there's like a chicken toast recipe. Oh yeah, Isaw that. Yes, but you're not gonna pick the, you know, you're not gonnatake the chicken off the bone for this. You're gonna like roast the turkey andand the little green dress would be a great condiment to have with that. Thatsounds so good. It makes me want to make it right now. I'm looking for itright now. I actually like two days ago just in preparation, but I hope wellwas listening to us, he's really good at scratch cooking chicken. So I'mhoping my husband is good at it. Honestly. He's our turkey. Yeah, my myhusband is too, he he's the meat man, like my, like myaunts, uncles, everybody. I really think what, okay, Ron you want to putone? Sorry, I do. But first I want to say I'm a big fan of dispatch cock andthat's what I'm doing with the turkey this year. I just like to hear peoplesay it, you're not the only one on the chicken and a book and got so manyquestions about it that like it was unbelievable. And I was like, wow, Ididn't, this is amazing. I just want to casually drop it in conversation abouthow, Oh, do you know about scratch cooking? You can, uh, if you scratchyour chicken on thanksgiving, you can see a scratch I dispatched caught mychicken. My thanks to my turkey. So did you, great question about if there'sany immigrant influence in your cookbooks or in your dishes in yourrestaurant? Um, well I, I choose to look at like myregional cooking as a, um, as all immigrant influence. You know, likeeveryone in eastern north Carolina came there from somewhere else and somewheresouth in particular is about the ever evolving, uh, food culture of the south.You know, it literally the precipice for the show is like how the foodtraditions we bring to the place where we are shaped thatplace and how that place shaped the food traditions we bring. And so like avery early example that I like to use that actually inspired a chef's lifewas my neighbors making collard kraut and um, they made it for forever. Butthe idea of like them, their ancestors coming from eastern europe and landingin, you know, eastern north Carolina and finding college, which you know,were, uh, an ingredient that came here...

...from arguably to different places, onebeing africa. Um, and, and then applying that technique of that crowdto the collards. I mean that's the, that's an example of like influence and,and, and the way that our cuisine as americans evolves. And so yes, theanswer is yes. Yes. It was great. I love collards and the more, you knowabout the food we're eating, the more interesting it is. And then the moreyou want to make it from whole food and not buy it pre prepared or alreadyslathered in something to hide its flavor. I just love this. So one of ourfavorite parts of the show is the segment where we get to ask you for awriting tip and your writing is so personal and it's not fictional, butyou must have a writing tip to help us kind of tap into that personalauthenticity in an essay. It's just beautiful. So I've been thinking aboutthis a lot because I knew the question was coming and um, I've been askedabout like my method for writing before and I just really, I don't know. Um, Ithink I think about, so I write this column forgarden and Gun. I've had four so far and I do most of the writing before Iever write it. Like, so I just think I drive a lot because I work here incharleston and so I just think think, think, think, think and I know exactlywhat it's going to be and then I'll write it and um, and that was the sameway with the essays and this will make it taste good and deep run roots. LikeI, I spent a lot of time, um, thinking about it and then I just like just write it, I don't know, I knowthat that but there's a lot of it seems like there's not a lot of time, but Ispend a lot of time musing on what it's going to be um and what I want to sayand I always try to make sure before I start writing anything that I know whatI want to say. Mhm. Like not necessarily what it is, like, you knowwhat the the the movement of it's going to be, but like what the end purpose ofit is. That's awesome. Pre writing, prewriting, like do you write down here's three, here's three points I want toget across in this essay. No, but I'm gonna try that what you'realready doing that, I'm kind of doing that, you know, I think if I try to dosomething bigger, like a book, you know, I would have to do that. But with anessay like so far my experience has been kind of singular, you know? UmThat's that's so interesting, I think I do that too, but like specifically withessays and so like I have a hard time just write an essay for an anthologyand I pitched something and then I had this totally different idea, like itjust sort of like popped up, but I'll always say like, you know, like I'llwhen I know what it is, I'll feel it like I'll feel what the thing is like,you feel that thing and you know, and you you aren't saying in your head likethe sentences, but you just, you know the story. Yes, yes, that's exactlywhat happened. So like my, I'm writing um I have a my column do for gardeninggun on friday, and I had pitched this idea to write this story about thischurch that is um across in between my house and the house that I grew up in,and I passed this church my whole life, I've never even been in it and I wentin it like a month ago and it felt holy and I'm not religious and it was justthis big thing. And so I was like, I want to write about this, and then Istarted writing it and I'm like, this is not what I want to write about, butI've taken pictures of the church and the illustrator has it, and so I'm likeum yeah, but you know, you know, like I knew like Yeah. Yeah, that'sinteresting. Yeah, I didn't yeah, common experiences are good. Okay, sodo you have a book that you could recommend for our fabulous audiencetonight? Yeah, well, I thought that I would recommend another narrativecookbook and like the one that kind of inspired the way that I approached, Iapproach um cookbooks. It's Edna Lewis's the taste of country cookingand it's um an older book, but she blends uh recipes and food traditionsand family and culture uh in a way that really made me uh feel as if I couldcelebrate the really mundane kind of basic things that I grew up eating andso yeah. Uh Yeah Edna Lewis is just the best herwriting and recipes are amazing. Yeah I...

...have a cookbook she did with she didthe cookbook with a guy who was uh right now I have that book and havecome from wonderful. Now my cookbook tvr is growing as if I need more booksin the house. Already know what cookbook I'm getting everybody forchristmas. I want us to all sit around and talk about it. It's almost like abook club. Your cookbook like you don't want to just that's why we're textingbecause you don't just want to have the cookbook. You want to talk about itwith someone you all should have. I'm sure that a lot of people, tons ofpeople have done like book clubs with your books. But one of the fun thingsthat I've noticed over the years is people doing these cookbook clubs whereeverybody they're reading it together and then everybody picks a dish andthen they good and um cook and um send me pictures and make aprons. Yeahthat's actually a program we do in the libraries and well the the before times,everybody would come and check out. This is four times and and cook it andbringing them. We'd all talk about. It was one of my favorite things to do. Ohyeah, I want to get together and do that with this cookbook and except youhave to come Vivian or will be disappointed in you. I mean I totally,I feel about it, you know, There's a 5050 chance I'll come because I don'twant to disappoint anyone but let me say this about do it to you. I'm justkidding. I would like to say about this cookbook in particular, like leading upto the holidays. Is that like the condiments, the flavor heroes are themost amazing gifts that you can give for christmas or Hanukkah or whatever.Um and so you know, I keep reading all these things about supply chain issuesand wouldn't we just like to give people something that's consumable? Idon't want anybody to give me a lamp. I want to pick my own lamp so you guyscan you not send that lamp to her that we were going to? We're going to sendher too late. I already sent it, you know, I'll trade it in for the lamp Iwant. Okay, guilty about it. Either boundaries, boundaries. Exactly. She'slamp boundaries. Alright. Speaking of book recommendations, y'all I know wetold you at the beginning that we had a cover to show you and we know how muchyou all loved mary Alice Munro and Angela maze, The Islanders this pastsummer and they have a sequel coming out this next summer and it is calledSearch for Treasure. The young boy who was in the Islanders, Jake is back onDewees Island and this time his dad joins him for a summer and Jake soonlearns there is treasure to discover, remember when you were kids and youalways hope there was like buried treasure in the yard um so his friendsmaking love, you join him and the search is on as long as they can steerclear of Al Big Al, the biggest gator on the island. So on mary Alice'swebsite and social pages, there will be news about a special preorder giveawayand readers will get assigned book plate and adorable alligator book markclip. Isn't that such a cute cover? That's kind of a terrifying alligatorto be honest. It kind of reminds me of Peter pan, oh it reminds me of the pondacross the street from my house. I was at your last time, I was at your house,it was like dark and I was walking out to my car and I was like what ifthere's an alligator and I it's like dark. I mean they're not like streetlamps, it's like dark and I was like, oh my gosh, this is where it ends. Forme, she's going to be the alligator story. Okay, Vivian, if you don't mindsticking around for just a couple minutes, we have one more question foryou before we I don't give a couple announcements. Absolutely. Okay, so ifyou're not hanging out with this yet on the friends and fiction official bookclub, you are missing out the group which is separate from us and is run byour friends Lisa Harrison and Brenda Gartner is now more than 10,000 orclose to 10,000 strong. Um, so join us tomorrow november 18th on the Friendsand Fiction official book Club for friends giving. We have all Hosted somerecipes. They're speaking of cooking and so make sure that you come hang outtomorrow night at 7:00 EST seven and speaking of seven o'clock Easternnext week on the Friends and Fiction...

...episode. It's the 24th right here atseven. Like I said, mary Kay will be hosting the one 100th episode ofFriends and Fiction. That's 101 0. There's a great traffic to uh theladies thought that they were gathering for a few weeks, a couple months atmost and look at them all now, they'll welcome Elin Hilderbrand and timEhrenberg, then in two weeks join them as they welcome chris swan and johnhart. And if you're ever wondering about the schedule, it's always on theFriends of fiction website and also the fall schedule is up on the facebookbanner on the facebook page. And have you heard about our amazing readingjournals? Talk about the perfect gift. They're out now from Oxford exchange,you can add them to your christmas or holiday reading package that includesmy christmas and Peachtree bluff patties. Once upon a word dr and marycase the santa suit. Um, you can also add the forest vanishing stars if youhave not gotten your coffee yet from Kristen, but you can buy this alone.You can buy as a part of your package. It's a really great gift. We all havehours and are kind of obsessed with them. They're so beautiful to have thisgreat linen cover and this pretty ribbon and this gold foil and they'rejust great. So they're just gorgeous for the first time. I'm going to keeptrack of what I read. I've never kept track New Year's resolution. And don'tforget about our pad cut. Mm That thing don't forget about our podcast becauseit is growing like crazy. And since we have our podcast host on tonight, wewill be talking much more about what's coming on at the after show with Ron onour talking turkey with butter ball after show. Okay, now Vivian, we already asked youabout the best way to cook a turkey. Let's talk dressing versus stuffing.Which camp are you in? What's the difference? Which is better and cornbread or regular bread or neither. Um, well, you know, I, I think that no one,maybe I'm being too uh, I, I don't think that people stuff a bird anymore.I don't think you stuff. A bird. I don't think you stuff. A turkey. So thestuffing is that word doesn't make sense. Right? I never thought about itthat way. Um, so we always called it dressing and I don't even know whyexcept that maybe you're dressing the turkey with it. But um I grew up eatingstuffers like the, with, we all did and my mom would put these like raw onionsin it and I never saute them and it's like this, this memory, my job was likemixing the stuffing and like with my hands and um, it was frankly awful. Somaking stuffing as an adult has been my favorite thing. And to your questionabout corn bread or white red or whatever. I think the point is to kindof use something that you have. Um, and, and so I think that's why corn breaddressing became a thing because people would have leftover corn bread and sothe drier the bread the better. Um, which is why we, you know, took greatpains to buy the Pepperidge farms, like little crew Tony stale bread farm tobuy stale bread. I know they really got us there, right. I can still see mymother with her arms up to her, up to her elbows in a giant aluminum, youknow bowl of, she would let the white bread go stale and you know, she wouldbe sitting there tearing it up uh the night before thanksgiving and now shedid sought her onions and celery and those things. But yeah, my mom justjust decided to like skip that she didn't make it the rest it did. I madea celery and onion batch and a non celery and onion batch and I was theonly kid that ate the celery and onion batch and my mother used to make halfof it. Um half of that oyster uh dress. I was just gonna say my aunt fromChicago would come down every year and she despised oysters and she would makesuch a big fuss about it. My mother would say oh Julia, I just put it inhalf the pan, she put it in the whole pan. Yeah, producing, it's a reallyinteresting thing to dressing isn't for me really funny because I studiedabroad um and Argentina when I was uh junior in college and I was there forthanksgiving and they don't celebrate thanksgiving there, they don't even eatturkey and I wanted to like do thanksgiving. Um And so we ordered aturkey from brazil and it came, it was like £4 with the chicken. But but thisis the first time I ever could without a recipe is the point. So I boughtbread in the grocery store, dried it...

...out used Theresa and so go wild withyour dressing is what I would say. I like that go wild and I love thinkingabout just use whatever bread you've got and it is it is funny one of thequestions we sometimes ask authors is um what their values were aroundreading and writing when they were growing up and for you to hear thevalues around um, cooking like that. Your mom used Stouffer's or didn'tsaute the onions. It's fascinating how we then shift and here you are. Yeah.It's also interesting. My mom made me read 30 minutes for every maybe read anhour for every 30 minutes of television. I wanted to watch as a child. My gosh!So you didn't ask that question But there you go. No, I am like cancer.It's not in my house. You know, it made me hate it. I would lay there and likepretend to read. Okay. But I really loved rating. But the fact that she wasmaking me do it almost like a punishment. I wouldn't let my kidswatch television on school nights. Yeah. They still, they still tell me thatthey're scarred by it. And no, that's good. They can take that to a therapist.Well, Vivian, Yeah, the virtual therapist. Vivian, you have been such ajoy to talk to. We could talk to you for so long and there are so manyquestions rolling in that we didn't get to. So just know you are well loved andpeople love your work and your cooking and your shows and we are so honoredthat you visited us. So thank you for coming. Thank you. I'm so honored to beasked. Thank you. Thank you have a great thanksgiving, thanksgiving,thanksgiving. Talk your bird. Okay, talk about it to take care of Vivian.Alright, y'all That was so great. Now make sure to stay around. I know,amazing. Stay around for our talking turkey with butter ball after showbecause Ron is going to catch us up on the podcast and we have so much to talkabout and don't forget that as we approach our 100th episode next week,you can find all of our back episodes on youtube. We are live there everyweek and just like we are on facebook and if you subscribe you won't miss athing. Plus you'll have access to some really special short clips from othershows. So come back next week. Same time. Same place as we celebrate 100episodes with Elin Hilderbrand. 100 who knew when mary Kay andrews called usand said, hey y'all, let's get on a zoom, look at us. So we'll see you allnext week, Good night, go good night, but don't leave. Yeah. Mhm. Hey y'all welcome to the talkingturkey, butter ball after show. We're talking turkey doesn't just mean food.Oh my gosh, she was amazing. She's incredible. She's great. Yeah, it'sreally funny. Like just a like think about we moved to kinston,like right, when shopping. Well maybe not right away, but a couple yearsafter chef and the farmer had opened and I mean it was like a big deal, butnot like, you know a week ago and stay nice and she would do these chefstables and talk about all of the dishes, you know and it was just like and nowI'm like oh my gosh she's just like superstar, you know it's really cooland she's so personable and her writing is so authentic and they match up matchup just who she is and what she writes, she's authentic. That's another word Ikept thinking of. Yeah, I think she I think she unconsciously downplays howimportant voice is in her writing. That's to me what separates thenarrative and her cookbooks from some more who just you know other cookbookswill give you technique and they'll give you very strict rules on measuringand of those kinds of technical stuff. But when you pick up a Vivian howardbook, you're picking it up for the voice. I think as much as these so manypeople aren't writing their own cookbooks too. I mean you know so manybooks out there or go straighten and so you know that she actually writes herown and she's right, even in her recipes, you can hear her voice but shecan hear her voice, you understand that patty earlier. I was like yes you'reright now that I know her voice, you know we're not when I did the beachhouse cookbook, we used a recipe tester and food stylist and food photographerum a group of women um Los demas who I knew and had known for a long time,who's a magazine photo stylist. Um so she put the team together but this teamhad done, I don't know how many other cookbooks, including this one cracks meup. They did a cookbook for the Duck Dynasty guys. Oh my gosh, I'm sure theywrote their essays. Yeah, the Duck...

Dynasty guys had nothing to do with it.But they were just like, you know, and then we have to write redneck recipes.Hilarious. Well when you shoot them, oh my gosh! When she when she which wasthe opposite of what Vivian did. But when there's this little section in thefront of the book where it says what would Vivian do? And there, I mean Iread them out loud to pat last night because they're hilarious. Like shewould tell you to make sure you have a what? A X inch chef's night that fitswell in your hand. Just these Yeah. Is that what it was 10 And I just like allthese little hints and clues. I just I know I keep going on about of it. Ilearned so much by getting her a lot of stuff during the pandemic. I just can'tsay enough about it. So Ron we are so psyched to have you come from behindthe podcast microphone to join us on the screen. So talk to everyone that'swatching, tell us a bit about all the exciting things going on with thepodcast. Oh my God, there's so much we are already looking at, we're bookinginto like March of next year, so I'm not gonna give too much away, but thenext few weeks are going to be amazing. Um this week we have the return of MaryAlice Monroe, she's with a couple of her um publishing buddies, talkingabout writing for Children. And I just got a sneak peek of the episode for thefollowing week. And it's so good. We're going to break it up into our firstever two part episode, Country music legends, kim Richie and Gretchen Peters.And it gave me goose bumps to listen to them again on this. They sing, It'sjust incredible. And um I just, I can't wait for people to hear it. So Davidtuned for that next week. Then the following week, Patty You and I did onetogether recently. That was really exciting about a book, Doctors andFriends, by kim Marie martin, All medical action, but it's kind ofterrifying. Yeah, because she was writing about depression. Yes. So howmany episodes are we up to now? 30 maybe at the end of this? At the end ofthis month, the music episode, the first one is going to be there 25thepisode. My gosh, every single friday. Every single friday 25. And and I again,I, I just can't thank you all enough for having me join you to do thesethings. Uh you have no idea what it's doing, it's just, I love it, I love itso much, so much. And tomorrow I was like a personal thing Christie and Iwould would bond over this one tomorrow. I'm actually um anybody has anybody afan of the housewives or bravo there? Yeah, and so jealous. So amy phillipswho does impressions of all the housewives is put out a cookbook withan actual chef about and and kind of making parody of the housewife, some oftheir famous sayings and situations and it's actually a great cookbook, I'vebeen making things from it, it's amazing. So that's coming up soon inearly december, but I get to hang out with amy phillips and all thehousewives tomorrow, so stay tuned for that. So fun, That's right, that'sgoing to be fantastic. Really fantastic. You know, I had a good time a coupleweeks ago when I did the podcast um with um stir Kosowski is my literaryagent, my longtime literary agent of more than 20 years and his wife Pameladorman who um is the head of Pamela dorman books, which is an imprint atviking and um I've known them for a long time and I think, I think they'rereally interesting people, they're fast, they're funny, they're so smart. Um andso um I had as much fun asking questions and hearing their answersthat I hope especially, I think aspiring writers will want to listen toit, but also people, if you love books, I think it's interesting to find out,well what is a, what does an editor look for in a book and what does, whatdoes an agent looking for in a book? And and Stewart talked a little bitabout how he he um he said, you know, whenever I've I've taken an author or aproject on, because my head told me it was the right thing to do, he said itdoesn't work out, it has to be, my partner has to tell me, my heart has tosay you've got to have this. And then pam talked about being she's socompetitive, competitive that, you know, when when she gets when she gets amanuscript um an agent um um an agent um gives her, she said shelocked herself in the room and the whole time she's reading it, she'llfreak out. I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta get it. What if someone else getsit? And I just thought I love that. So...

I think I hope, I hope people enjoylistening to it as much as Ron and I enjoy doing it. Oh, it's so interesting.In fact, I got a fan letter today that I forwarded to, you know, I forwardedit to pam. Good, it's nice, people are listening and they're loving it. Soit's great and you know, that there's such a theme, you know, if you thinkabout like, what Vivian was talking about tonight and talking about Stuartand pam and I think about the episode Ron that we did with Ali Larkin and howshe was talking about, you know, being with an editor that really wanted tochange this story and she was like this in so many ways the story of my life,and if this is an authentic story that I'm telling, I can't change it. And andI mean really, like, I think about something like really in particularthat um the Vivian turned down and I I don't think I could have, you know,like she was like, it's not it's not the thing, it's not the thing, and I'mlike, I can't imagine turning that down, you know? So it's really interesting tojust kind of think about re centering and feeling like, you know, what is itthat I'm supposed to be doing? Where is it that, you know, my heart tells meand um you know, what's the book I'm supposed to be writing? What's theproject is to take on, because it is easy to get really caught up and somuch noise, you know, and you do get to a point where you have to turn somethings down. I'm so good at it. Yeah, all of us are saying that I don't thinkso. I think we were like, when do we agree toall this stuff? And then it's like all at once, and you're like, oh God, whosaid yes to this? Yes. Oh my God, it's so true. So Ron you have nancy you andnancy johnson or doing something to write? Yes. We're putting togethersomething to celebrate the paperback release at the end of january for her,the kindest lie that we love, and we're inviting a new debut author on with usand it's still details to be worked out. But she's going to co host with you,that she's going to co host and she's going to pass off the baton a littlebit for debuts. Oh, I love that. And we interviewed kim Marie martin, which wasso her book, Doctors and Friends, which was so interesting for me because she'san er doctor and I used to be a nurse and she takes her experiences frombeing a doctor and writes these astounding medical um narratives thatare so interesting and I've never approached a story from my old job, butshe wrote about the pandemic before the pandemic. It's crazy. So the book isabout a pandemic that hits. I know, I know, so, Ron we've all talked aboutour thanksgiving plans. What are yours? Well apparently I'm spatula cocking aturkey. Yes, you are. I am actually ordered it from the butcher, althoughI'm really good at a chicken. I have never done a turkey to do all that? Sothe butcher is doing that for me. Do you do your chicken on the grill or doyou do it in the oven? Both both. And I'm actually going to try the turkey onthe grill. But now after hearing Vivian, I want to try that layer of Brenda. I'mlike that makes it sound easy instead of all the other stuff. We're verytraditional, very traditional dishes. The things I mix up a lot are the, likethe sides. Like I think this year is going to be some kind of a kale dish orI've done butternut squash salad and different things like that. But themain thing is that this is where we're eating at home since I moved to Ohio,we always ate at a friend's house and had an amazing time, wonderful time.But I would always have to come home and the next day go to the store andbuy all the things again. So I could make thanksgiving dinner again becauseI didn't have leftovers and I love the process. So no, I do it again. But it'sgoing to be traditional. I know I'm afraid to change. Thanks to all playingthis patch cop drinking game. Thank you Shawn. That's a fantastic. That's agreat idea. I like to do, I am going to dispatch cock a pomegranate uh tomorrowman you've always been. Um, but we're such traditionalist. I would be andit's such, you know, the whole Henry family gets together and pat's mom is aa huge traditional gourmet cook. I would be terrified to scratch cock thatchicken, that turkey, So, and meg asked a great question on the chat, she said,does it ruin the presentation value for thanksgiving? I don't think anybodycares about the pros anymore, You can, I don't know about the turkey becauseturkey is bigger, but like sometimes it feels as a chicken, like you can put itback together on the plate, like if you don't like you because you're splayingit out, but it's still like, we don't carve our tom, we don't carve theturkey at the dining room table, that's too messy. No, no, very norman Rockwellof you Cathy I know, but we're not a very norman Rockwell group. Well itmakes me think of christmas with, what is that hilarious christmas movie? TheGriswald and he cuts it open and just...

...all this you're no joke. I feel likethat is a lot of times on my turkey is like, I would pull it out and I'm like,this is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It's like golden and I nevermade the one for like the main event, Sometimes I'll try to make it, I'm like,this is gorgeous, like this is an award winning turkey and then I carve it andI'm like, I actually bought 1 um the one I made a couple of days ago waslike butter ball, does these ones that are like in a bag and you actually,what we did to the bag. It was so good. I was like, this is the first like nondry turkey I've ever made because you like, you can't mess it up, you stickit in the oven in the bag and it was the juices in. Okay. I'm gonna go findone of those. Yeah, we, we did one um last sunday and it was delicious andsimple. Um Everyone loved it. We had enough. I think we had six for dinnerand we had enough. We have a neighbor who doesn't cook. And so, um you shouldcall him and say, hey, come get a plate. Um So yeah, that was and they have,they have a boneless one to a boneless turkey breast was a boneless breast.See mine had the bone in and I would like that because I'm going to havesaved the carcass to make gravy. Oh, I'm gonna get to make stock for mygreat, so many cooking goals. The breast actually had a gravy packet init. We didn't know we had that too because I like carved it for dinner forsandwiches and stuff. But that's great. Yeah, I saw your picture of it and Iwas like butter ball turkey in a bag. I'm hungry. When is thanksgiving? I'mgonna, I'm gonna start making my gravy stuff tomorrow. I think if I have timeI made my cranberry. So I hope to video it and I'll post it. Yeah. Um so Ibought some turkey wings and turkey neck, which is what my mother alwaysused to use. And I actually actually just because I found him, I found somebutter ball turkey drumsticks. So I'm going to roast all of those off and usethe pan drippings to make my gravy ahead of time. Please video that please. Unless it looks terrible, then I won'tdo it, it won't look terrible. It'll be great. You know what that is? You know,I'm at the age for, um, I used to could call my mom and say, hey mom, how didyou do that? You know how you know what, how do I use what? And, and she lovedto tell everyone how to do everything. And because you were, there was onlyone way to do it, right? And it was soos way I can't do that anymore. Butshe did, she didn't tell me a lot of about, so now my kids have to call meand ask me, and we have to call you and ask you. And I don't know that. It wasreally fun when we were getting those are those recipes together for kristen.I actually went to see my grandmother that day and I was like, well I gaveher the brown rice recipe and I'm just checking it's this, this, this and thisand she was like, yeah, but it's like, told me this thing that I've forgottenand I was like, oh my gosh, it was so, it's amazing past nobody. Somebody saysnobody's mentioned the thanksgiving desserts. Well, those are the best part,real whipped cream with real heavy cream whipped in the kitchen and a coldmetal bowl. Hello, What's your favorite? Uh we can't talk about that wrong. Wehave a game next week. We're not allowed to tell our favorite piessecret. Find out next week. I make close friends. I always make Andy hisown. He loves pumpkin pie so much. So I, you know when you buy a candidate uhpumpkin pie filling, it makes two pies. So one pie is strictly hits. No one cantouch Andy's pumpkin pie. And there's, I have a recipe for it in the in theBeach House cookbook. And and when I was researching that recipe, I foundsomewhere, somebody said add fresh ground black pepper. No, and it isamazing. I love that idea what fresh ground black pepper does too, pumpkinpumpkin pie. I mean along with the clothes and the nutmeg, it really kindof, it kind of brightens it somehow. The cranberry sauce I made yesterdayand have all Children ready to go added ginger and pepper and I it's delicious.I think I'm making that this year. I usually do some kind of a fun, but it'susually like orange and cranberry, but that one I'm, yeah, it's orange andcranberry and it has pomegranate seeds to uh fancy like that dang. I didn't gothat far dispatch pomegranate. Yeah,...

...that's what you should make sure that'swhat you gotta do is take a picture of your stature, cock pomegranate. Do youactually take them all apart and take all those seeds out of the bombs, huh? What do they callthem there? They have a name, those little deeds, know there somethingsills. Yeah, pomegranate, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. Oh God, that likemakes me feel, why can't I remember that? It's just called them thepomegranate. Something's tills somebody right now is typing it on the page 100%and weekend. I hope they will, if sean, if sean were any were worth as a v nerdsalt, he would be Googling that and telling us right now. Alright, y'alltalk about cooking. I'm going to go my, my dinner downstairs, good nighteveryone, wait about, we have to talk about the turkey, yep. So before weleave we will see you next week. And just a reminder that butter ball iscelebrating the 40th anniversary of its Turkey talk line which started as justa phone line. Fresh carols, carols! Carols, carols, thank you, meg walkcrossword word. That's a good one and they have a website and they're even oninstagram and Tiktok, of course we all know that we can call in with lastminute questions about our scratch cocking on thanksgiving day, butthey're actually open even now through the end of december. So you have anyTurkey questions at all? Call the Turkey hotline and give them a call orcheck out their website and that's it for tonight, y'all. We'll see you nextweek for 100 episodes tonight, y'all. Thank you for tuning in. You can joinus every week on facebook or Youtube, where our live show airs on Wednesdaynights at seven p.m. Eastern time. Also subscribe to our podcast and follow uson instagram. We're so glad you're here. Yeah.

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