Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 7 months ago

Friends & Fiction with Vivian Howard

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Join us as we welcome award-winning cookbook author, TV personality, chef and restaurateur, Vivian Howard. Her first cookbook, DEEP RUN ROOTS, was a New York Times bestseller and was named “Cookbook of the Year” by the International Association of Culinary Professionals. Vivian created and stars in the public television shows Somewhere South and A Chef’s Life, for which she has won Peabody, Emmy and James Beard awards. Vivian runs the restaurants Chef & the Farmer in Kinston, NC; Benny’s Big Time in Wilmington, NC; and Handy & Hot and Lenoir, both in Charleston, SC. In October 2020, Vivian released her second cookbook, THIS WILL MAKE IT TASTE GOOD. She joins us one week out from Thanksgiving to talk about her blockbuster shows, southern food, her storytelling cookbooks and some cooking tips for the upcoming holidays.

Welcome to Friends and fiction for new york times. Bestselling authors, endless stories, novelists, mary Kay andrews, Kristin Harmel, Kristy Woodson harvey and Patti Callahan Henry. R four long time friends with more than 70 published books between them together. They host friends and fiction with author interviews and fascinating insider talk about publishing and writing to highlight and support independent bookstores. They discussed the books, they've written the books they're reading now and the art of storytelling. If you love books and you're curious about the writing world, you're in the right place. Hi everyone, it is Wednesday night and that means it is time for Friends and fiction. It's our most favorite night of the week and tonight we are so excited to introduce you to Vivian Howard along with our superstar guest co host Ron block. Our christian is out tonight for her brother's wedding and we're thrilled that Ron has joined us to talk to Vivian, I am Patti Callahan Henry, I'm Kristy Woodson Harvey, I'm mary Kay andrews and I am round block and thank you for having me here because it feels like in the old days when I used to get invited from the kids table to the grown ups table which is perfect for tonight. Right definitely, I love my buddy, I prefer the kids table to be honest and there's more wine at the grown up table that I changed my mind and this is friends in fiction for new york times. Bestselling authors, endless stories to support independent bookstores this evening. Not only do we have our rock style rock star librarian and host of our writer's block podcast, but our guest for the evening is Diddy and Howard. We'll be talking about her blockbuster shows, Southern food, her storytelling cookbooks and possibly even ask her for a few tips for the upcoming holidays. We even have a surprise cover for you in the middle of the show, So keep your eyes out as you know, we continue to encourage you to support independent booksellers when and where you can. And one way you can do that is to visit our own friends and fiction bookshop dot org page where you can find Vivian's books and books by the four of us in our past guests at a discount bookshop dot org gives a portion of each sale to independent bookstores. And it also helps support the show. So if you enjoy watching this is a great way to support our guests, independent bookstores and the Friends of Fiction group all at the same time. And have you heard about our exciting partner this month and next month it's a perfect timing. I think it's butterball Turkey, We're especially excited about this because it means we get to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the fame Turkey talk line, which I like to call anyway just to talk to those people. They're awesome. Um I crank calls on thanksgiving just to make sure you join us on our talking Turkey with butter ball after show tonight we'll be chatting about the history of the turkey talk line and mentioning some of our favorite turkey recipes, which will be sharing with you in november and december. And this week let's talk about the parade essay. Kristen wrote an essay for a monthly column for Parade magazine and of course it's all about thanksgiving and the time when she was in her late twenties and she had an idea to throw a friend's giving, She found herself suddenly cooking dinner in a rush for 10 people. Well that's our Christian, taking care of everybody. Soon she realized that thanksgiving really is not about panic cooking but it's more about the time we spend with each other. And she gives us some stress free cooking recipes from our guest today, the turkey hotline, Turkey Talk Hotline. And I think we've even got some recipes from us in there. She included us and as our guest Vivian today says and is quoted in Kristen's article, Thanksgiving can be anything. You want it to be. The holidays are all about breaking bread with friends and family and being grateful for what we have. Yeah, so be sure and go check out the essay on parade dot com and on our facebook page um and go and read it because you'll want to see this recipe for salt and butter roasted pecans that I'm already making. Um and speaking of thanks, we want to give a big shout out to our friend Anisa Armstrong who you all know if you're on the page for all her time and energy coordinating our...

...launch day. Love each and every Tuesday. We love sharing the love for fellow authors with new books releasing each week. And ELISA spends loads of time gathering these for us. We are so grateful. Thank you Anisa. There she is with print to and lisa and I, I love all the flat us is that's really, really you are in their run. You know, there's a flat run. All right, y'all right now I want to introduce our guest, Vivian Howard, an award winning cookbook author, tv personality chef, restaurant Air and all around, interesting and kind person agreed her first cookbook, deep run roots stories and recipes from my corner of the South was released in 2016. It was the new york times bestseller and named cookbook of the Year by the International Association of culinary Professionals in october of 2020 she released her second cookbook. This will make it taste good. A new path to simple cooking astounding. Vivian also created and stars in the public television shows Somewhere south and a chef's life for which she has won peabody Emmy and James Beard awards. That's gonna be the hat trick. Right, that's right. So yeah, impressive. She runs the restaurant chef and the farmer in kinston north Carolina. Benny's big time in Wilmington's and handy and hot and lenore in charleston south Carolina and I am personally so excited to have her today. I've known her for a long time and um, she is an amazing person and man, if anybody can teach you how to make something taste good, it is Vivian because her food is definitely life changing as her stories in that book. Yeah, she opens up double whammy. Yeah. Alright, let? S bring Vivian on sean. Hey, made me feel so um, I was flushing. Thank you. So aren't you glad that you didn't have to sit with your face on screen while we were saying, I would have never done that. I would have laid down on the floor. Just turn the camera. That's why we do that so we can talk about you behind your back. We'll welcome Vivian. We are so excited that you're here. I know I said it off camera, but I'll say it here if you could see our text string in the past couple days, we have been raving about this cookbook and talking about what we're each going to make. I made the nuts yesterday and I'm going all the ingredients for the little green dress. Done it. Yeah. And so mary Kay y'all gonna be really jealous when I tell you this story. But I got to get an early copy of this cookbook and it had a jar of Vivian's red devils already. So it was like, I can make it taste good and I don't even have to do anything. Great. Yeah. I took advantage of her mail order things during the pandemic. Yeah, I got to try all of the things like the little green dress. So amazing grace. How are you? We'll probably get there but we'll get there for sure. But before we dive into all the fascinating things in the cookbook and tips and the fascinating combination of storytelling and cooking. I love how you open the book, the line in the front that says, there are stories in this too because I like to write them. They're a glimpse of the people, challenges, triumphs and lessons learned. I love this that stock the pantry of who I am. I love that. So before we dive deep into where it came from and the things inside, I want you to tell us about this will make it taste good. Um Well, you know, I had written this like, you know, kind of historical document cookbook that I really felt um represented the food of eastern north Carolina, a very small place and also um the stories behind the food and writing that book, I found that like what I really love doing was writing the head notes and writing the essays and the stories and you know, I can write a recipe and I love inflicting like natural voice into a recipe. Um but what I felt like was really successful in my first book um was the narrative quality of it. And And so after that it's like where do you go after writing a 600 page thing, you know, you go to bed, like uh I'm sure...

...you all understand like this idea of like a two book deal, like, you know, I've never written a book before, Deep run roots and so I signed this two book deal and I'm like, oh my God, like originally I thought oh I can write a million books, but I just wrote like a million books, one book. And and so the second one was a real challenge for me because I proposed a number of things that were like shot down um a lot and I kept coming back to this 11 of the ideas was this um book that was like, I wanted to write something very simple, like simple Vivian, because I read the reviews on amazon every day for a year for deep run roots and I know, but I mean I would have kept reading and they weren't positive, it's what I have come to understand um as a restaurant tour, like reviews, I don't know, I have a different relationship with them, I think. Um but so I read those and one of the things that I, you know, read over and over was I want something simple, I want the recipes are too complicated in this book. And so that was like my diatribe, you know, writing my second book and I had this whole idea for, you know, like four or five ingredient recipes and then the last, the last chapter in the book was called This will make it taste good. And it was like, if you want to make all these other recipes really great in this book, make all these condiments. And that was the only part of the book that I was excited about writing because I had stories attached to them. And so I proposed to flip the whole idea on its head and write this book about these flavor heroes, these condiments that we have made at chef and the farmer um for years. And that when I stopped working at chef and the farmer so much that I would like break into the restaurant at night and like steal these condiments, take them home with me so that I could like make really simple food exciting At home. And so that's what it's about. There's 10 chapters, each one is about one of these condiments, but I get to give them identities and um and personalities and names and I don't have fun. That's cool, very cool. It's very cool. For sure. Well, the book is, is a joy uhm recently major sauerkraut in it and it's, it's like you said, it's like that's the main thing, but then you can use it for so many other things beside it. It's delicious. But how did this book come out of Covid? Was it written before Covid? Or during Covid? So I had started writing it like earnestly in august, maybe july august. And um and then Covid happened in March. And so I had almost finished it in March, like writing it, but not the essay portion, not really the narrative portion and then all this happened. And um and you know, the pandemic happened and we shut the restaurant down and like we're looking for a way to uh have a revenue stream to keep some people employed and also just have some purpose. Like my whole life has always been about work. Like if I don't have work to go to that, I just disintegrate. Um and so, you know, the book was happening and I was also watching all these people on social media like cooking and like really engaged in cooking and I'm like, and but really bored by it too. And so, oh my God, this book like these condiments, this is what people need. And so finishing the book like got me through the beginning of Covid. And then like as you said, Ron y'all, you ordered some our red weapons and little green dress. We sold these pandemic, you know, kind of care packages, not care packages of survival kits um with recipes in ways to use the condiments. And it was like a lifesaver, I mean, it literally, and then, you know, everybody thought the pandemic was gonna last a month, but at last we remember that part, we finished right, I finished writing the book, we finished shooting the book, we sold the several of the condiments from the book. And then the book came out all during the pandemic. So it was like wow, this never ending and I guess we're still in it. So we are. But the operative word through all this is pivot. I think you really had to pivot as also many of us did and you you kind of pivoted and with your television personality too, because I think I read that you said with the chef's life, I'm not doing this anymore, I want to do this other thing. And then so something new came out of that. I mean that's hard for any of us to do, but how did you approach these changes? Um you know, I think that you would get a different answer from the people around me, but I really I I can only do things that I...

I feel like I I feel good about, you know, um and so like a chef's life, I just couldn't do it anymore. And so I I had you know, and so I stopped and I wanted to do something else. You know, I think that um things I I what I've learned about myself and it's been a lot of therapy that should have answered the question about um what I've come to know during the pandemic that I can't do without his therapy. Um And what I've learned is that I really love creative endeavors, I love the beginning of them. I love the middle of them. That's why I love books so much is because it's like, you know, you you you go on this journey and you know, when it's gonna end and you know, like kind of the process and it's like a creative explosion in the beginning. And and but then it ends. And so I've learned that about myself and my restaurant projects, my book projects, my television projects. Um and I also understand that when I'm not like fully present things are not really that successful, that I'm a part of. And so I feel like my own personality and eccentricities and quirks have forced me to pivot and that was around me. I don't know if that's wonderful, but it is it is uh my reality. I think it is. Yeah, and the receiving and it's wonderful. And it's exactly what you say when you open the book with your quote to the corners, we find ourselves in force novel and creative ways out. I feel like that's what you just described. Yes. Yes. And that's like that. Um you know, we all have these survival mechanisms in our in our lives and mine has always been to throw myself in something creative and it could be like a dish on a on the menu when everything is burning around me and I can just like survive because I can make that and focus on that or a book or you know, um or a tv project. Um it's my survival mechanism. Yeah, we said, we said that a couple times about what we're doing, that it was our, our salvation and when everything else was burning around us, you could funnel your creative energy into this or into the book. But the writing in this cookbook is have to be honest, is as tasty as the recipes. And I loved hearing your stories, I can now that I'm hearing your voice, I can even hear your voice in the essays. They're so authentic and I love your pep talk at the cookbook says, I love it, you can, and what would Vivian do? I just, it's amazing. So how do you see storytelling and recipes as partners because obviously they are um, well, I've always thought that I'm like a far better storyteller than I'm I am a cook. And so like our, I mean, I think I'm a good cook, but um there are a lot of great cooks out there. So at chef and the farmer, I found we always had more traction when there was a story attached to a recipe, you know, people were more interested in that they gave you no more time to consider and um, and so I feel like that is at the root of kind of what I do is um blending and food and, and thought and purpose and history and um and, and food is something that we all engage in and we all, you know, we have this whole mantra of like we were gonna sit around the table and talk and and at this moment when we were breaking bread at the moment that we're sharing. But for some reason we have a hard time taking food out of the context of food. I don't know, it's it's interesting to me in that like they're not, there have not been that many narrative cookbooks written, you know, where where the recipes relate or the head notes really relate to something bigger than just like what you're making for dinner. Um when food is such a huge part of our lives um I think it makes it more interesting to cook when, when what you're cooking or making or baking. I like baking better than cooking, but when, what you're baking or making has a story behind it because reading the front end material made me even more excited to try and make the little green dress or the nuts or that then I could use in something else And mary Kay did that, you did that in your cookbook? You put store not yeah, not on, not on the level that Vivian,...

Vivian did. Um you know Vivian, your first restaurant was at the forefront of the farm to table movement and in deep run, you talked about the challenge of offering farm grown healthy food to a community that had grown away from their rural roots and had really formed more of an attachment to cheap fast or processed food. Now with the new book, you're continuing your mission of trying to lure cooks back two simple sort of, I don't know, would you call it clean eating? You know, I don't know that. I'd call it clean eating. One of the things that I've always advocated for is like, um, just buying whole ingredients and you know, I live in, in rural north Carolina and so whenever I write a cookbook, um, from this will make it taste good forward. I didn't take this into account with deep roots because it was very like region specific And I had a whole chapter on muscadine grapes, but whenever I write a cookbook moving forward, it's like, can you buy this at all of these ingredients at any walmart in America? You know? Yeah. When you were, we were talking about, you talked about how many of us were in the kitchen during covid putting putting, we were putting up preserves and baking sour dough bread and gardening. Do you think you're seeing progress in your community and in the country at large towards more of using whole fresh ingredients instead of um, Uh, you know, whipped topping and tub from the free. 100%. Yes. Yes, I would say, you know, in my community alone and which is where I feel like there was a lot of, a lot of space to catch up. Um, I think that it's all about generations and the younger generation across socioeconomic groups, I think cares more about what they eat and cares more like just thinks about it more. Um, true and, and there's small little steps, you know, we didn't all start going to Mcdonald's like every night either, you know, that was a top, that was a top down, like, you know, rich people went to Mcdonalds first and then that's how it became cool. Um, and so I think that absolutely we're moving in the right direction. Um, we largely have to, uh yeah, do you see another movement coming, another food movement coming that you're gonna surf the wave of, maybe you'll pioneer it. Um, well, I am working on a new project that I'm really excited about and it's really probably too early to come on. Well, I really believe that one of the exactly early for us. Well, I'm just, you're amongst the very basic. So this idea of, um, you know, I've written about rural wisdom for a long time and the food that um, this will make it taste good represents in the food that deeper and rude represents deeper roots represents is really founded in this idea of like the food of the frugal farmer or people who grow most of the food that they eat and so in this new world that we're in like facing climate change and, and, and really having to consider the way that we move forward, the way that we consume the way that we cook the foods that we eat, um so much of the precursors that the messages that we get about, what we do directly reflect back to the way that rural people have always eaten less, mean don't waste anything. Um you know, uh and and so I want to do something that is uh, that looks forward but is really rooted in the wisdom and the traditions of uh rural people who really placed a lot of value on food and land. And I think that that's been lost in so many ways. Um I don't think it's something that we acknowledge as a culture and society and I think it's important because we're trying to find all these new solutions and I think they're incredibly important as well, but we were doing things right for a period of time, oh I'm in for this it wrong, I'm gonna call you, it reminds me I think you're going to get this wrong, but your mom said something or maybe you said that your mom said that a sweet potato has everything that you need. I think about that all the time. Yeah, everything you need is in a sweet potato. So if anyone's getting sick, I'm like, oh we need a sweet potato because I love it, you know, it's funny to like reading the book and um and knowing all the players in it, you know, like especially like I feel like I know like Lorraine really well from doing Pilates with her every morning for...

...years and you know, things like that. It's just it was so fun to get to, you know, read these essays and feel like I got this like real glimpse into you know, your family and which I guess I guess we all did on a chef's life. I mean, I guess we really did. But um you are extremely honest in this book which you know, we've talked about before. I think we talked about on the podcast but about how you felt after this breakthrough success of your first cookbook. This massive hit show. This incredibly I'm having feedback. Mm hmm. I have an echo. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I hate that so much when it happens and you're like, I'm just going to keep going. You can hear it in your own ear and I'm crazy. Is that better? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um but you're really honest about how you had all these expectations on you after that like everything was going so well for you and it just felt really, really heavy. And I think, you know, in some ways all of us are living this public life. Maybe not as much as you, but in some ways we are. Um how do you manage that and have your ideas around, you know the expectations of that shifted because I think especially in the beginning it's really hard because you feel like you have such a responsibility to every single person out there. Yeah, I mean it's been a big issue for me, you know, um just being in such a rural place and and having a show in particular that was like, so like I was just bear on it, you know, people thought that they knew me and so people were traveling from all over the world to come eat there and I'm not there and then it's like, it's such a huge disappointment for them and I could feel it like in every, every part of my life and that's one of the things I write about and this will make it taste good. Like I I charted another way home from my office, so I didn't have to ride past the restaurant and see how many people on any given night that I was disappointing. And so Covid actually has been a big gift for me because um it's kind of like fuck it, you know? Uh sorry? Um but i is it you can only give so much to people and I'm a people pleaser. That's another thing that I really write about and and so it's like if I engage with someone, I'm going to try to please them. So Covid has allowed me to just like put up some boundaries, like I don't have to do that if I don't want to um and the tv thing to uh has been interesting because I've always seen tv for me as a means to an end, to be able to write books and to just be like, financially, just to be able to do projects that I want to do, I don't necessarily enjoy being on tv but people with us except, Right, right, you're very well, you're engaging on to you right now, you can, yeah, we all want to do things that we are good at, right? And so um you know, through covid, I it's like, do I want to be on tv and and do it? And what I've come to the conclusion of is that I want to do, I want to do tv or anything that puts me in the public sphere if it really matters, It feels like a sacrifice in some ways, so I'm not gonna do it to like earn a living because I know I can earn a living in other ways, so it's like, it's just going to contribute to something that is bigger and important, what I believe is important. And so that yeah, wow, it makes up to talk a lot around here, talk about all of that, you're always putting things on the scale right? Is it, is it worth it? Is it important? Yeah. Is it important? And people pleasing is every single person on the screen has to navigate that, which is I think why we're in creative fields, it's probably to get ourselves right. It's probably why for me it's why I started writing when I would get in trouble as a kid. Yeah, we're not why I started writing, but I think I knew I was good at it. I would like, right, I would get sent to my room or whatever and I would write a little account of what happened from my perspective. And then I would just like leave my room and like throw it on the kitchen table and leave, you know, go in the yard or something and know that my family would slowly, you know, gravitate toward it and read it. And then I would come in and everything would be good and and so it was like, yeah, my original people please our I guess, you know, I listened to um Katie...

Couric's podcast about her new book going there and she talked a lot about being a people pleaser and how that affected her career and brought 40 years in broadcasting. And it was yeah, it's something all of us. I think if you were not, I don't think of myself really is in the public eye. But you know, when someone write you an email, you are people stop you on the street and go, oh my God, are you mary Kay andrews that Yeah, you want it, you want to please everyone. But sometimes you just have to pull back. She doesn't care about pleasing us. She just doesn't she just says notice she found her boundaries in one place, that's what my Children say, they're like, you you're cool, like talking, you know, giving everybody else everything, but you know, it's like, yeah, you can, yeah, you know, somebody in the questions is asking about your Children Vivian. Um I see one that says um now that your Children are older, do they like to cook? No, I think that they're from a restaurant family. Yes. And you know, I have I have had a lot of issues with that. Um Hence therapy, Pandemic therapy, you know, it's like virtual therapy is great, you can get almost any time, but uh food has always been such a hot button issue in my house, you know, it's like my work, it's Ben's work, you know? Um It's it's the thing that takes me in large part away from them as they see it, whether it's writing cookbooks or you know, and so it's not, and and also I'm incredibly impatient um you know, in the kitchen, it's like I I want them to do what I asked them to do and they don't and um and so it's not been a safe happy place for us. Um It's I find that I am better engaging with them in in places where I'm also learning. Um So yeah, there's not only a question, but a man wrote in named steven Vaughn. And he said speaking of pleasing somebody, he said, I'm a 70 year old man born in Farmville Virginia, raised near D. C. But never have I lost my country roots and that's why I'm here. Plus I lost my wife 13 years ago and can't cook. Vivian has taught me a lot, wow, that's beautiful. Thank you. Isn't that beautiful? So if you're wondering if you're making a difference, that's amazing. Um mary Kay, you wanna pull another question? Yeah, let's see why was Stephen says my mother used to take cookbooks to bed. Like most of us take novels. I think she would have loved your idea of combining a narrative with the recipes and you know, I did the same thing. I'm locked, I'm on I'm on lockdown finishing the book, but I took the cookbook to bed with me the other night. Yeah, we were texting about it. It's funny. Yeah, I think that, you know, in in this, in today's world where you can, you know, if you want to make chicken with brussels sprouts and olives for dinner, you can google chicken with brussels sprouts and olives and find, you know, any number of things like if for me, cookbooks need to bring more value than just recipes and just like lame like opening like head notes. I want something that is like fully fleshed out and really creative and and I want it to be more like way more than just recipes. I can't tell you the last time I actually made a recipe from a cookbook, but I love cookbooks. So um and I think there's a lot of people that feel that way that's immersive an immersive. And I always want to know more about the person writing it or more about the recipe or more about the their recipe for success or their restaurant. And so yeah, we have a lot of questions for you, but I'm going to be selfish and ask one of my own because that's awesome. We were talking about butter ball at the beginning of the show. It's Turkey time. And do you have any tips for us about, you know how to make our turkey taste good, you know, turkey is not the easiest thing in the world, but what I would recommend and I recommend this with not only turkey, but if you're cooking a...

...whole chicken, any whole bird is spatula cocking it. Do you know what I mean by that? So if you are not buying a frozen turkey, buying it from a butcher, you can probably ask if they'll do this for you. But if not it is really really easy. So whenever you scratch cock bird, all you do, it has to be thought. So just know that, but all you do is cut the backbone out. Like you can use a knife, you can use kitchen shears, cut the backbone out and then take the bird and flatten it and just like press down on it. So essentially you're taking this whole like steaming like mechanism that is the cavity of the bird. That is a terrible way to cook something and removing it and you're cooking it on a flat surface. So for one, you're gonna like cut down on the cooking time tremendously for two, it's gonna cook more evenly. So that would be, if I could tell you anything, I could tell you about brining, I can tell you about soaking in buttermilk, I can tell you about all kinds of things. But if you scratch cocker bird and, and I would also recommend this is a great tip. So get um, taking some like rustic sour dough bread or any kind of chewy european bread. Put it, you know, cut it into um, you know, I would buy a loaf like this and like slice it in half like one slices, put it underneath the turkey. Okay, just underneath the turkey and but only this patch cocked because if you put it underneath the turkey and its whole, it'll take too long and the bread will burn. But put it underneath the turkey. But some herbs underneath that if you want like some rosemary or some time whatever lemon and then roast it like that on a sheet tray with the bread underneath it and you won't even like want any stuffing that bread is going to be the best thing you've ever had. Now. Can you still get the pan juices for your gravy. Um Yes, yes. And actually for a better tutorial on how to do this, you should look in this will make it taste good. Little green fresh chapter and there's like a chicken toast recipe. Oh yeah, I saw that. Yes, but you're not gonna pick the, you know, you're not gonna take the chicken off the bone for this. You're gonna like roast the turkey and and the little green dress would be a great condiment to have with that. That sounds so good. It makes me want to make it right now. I'm looking for it right now. I actually like two days ago just in preparation, but I hope well was listening to us, he's really good at scratch cooking chicken. So I'm hoping my husband is good at it. Honestly. He's our turkey. Yeah, my my husband is too, he he's the meat man, like my, like my aunts, uncles, everybody. I really think what, okay, Ron you want to put one? Sorry, I do. But first I want to say I'm a big fan of dispatch cock and that's what I'm doing with the turkey this year. I just like to hear people say it, you're not the only one on the chicken and a book and got so many questions about it that like it was unbelievable. And I was like, wow, I didn't, this is amazing. I just want to casually drop it in conversation about how, Oh, do you know about scratch cooking? You can, uh, if you scratch your chicken on thanksgiving, you can see a scratch I dispatched caught my chicken. My thanks to my turkey. So did you, great question about if there's any immigrant influence in your cookbooks or in your dishes in your restaurant? Um, well I, I choose to look at like my regional cooking as a, um, as all immigrant influence. You know, like everyone in eastern north Carolina came there from somewhere else and somewhere south in particular is about the ever evolving, uh, food culture of the south. You know, it literally the precipice for the show is like how the food traditions we bring to the place where we are shaped that place and how that place shaped the food traditions we bring. And so like a very early example that I like to use that actually inspired a chef's life was my neighbors making collard kraut and um, they made it for forever. But the idea of like them, their ancestors coming from eastern europe and landing in, you know, eastern north Carolina and finding college, which you know, were, uh, an ingredient that came here...

...from arguably to different places, one being africa. Um, and, and then applying that technique of that crowd to the collards. I mean that's the, that's an example of like influence and, and, and the way that our cuisine as americans evolves. And so yes, the answer is yes. Yes. It was great. I love collards and the more, you know about the food we're eating, the more interesting it is. And then the more you want to make it from whole food and not buy it pre prepared or already slathered in something to hide its flavor. I just love this. So one of our favorite parts of the show is the segment where we get to ask you for a writing tip and your writing is so personal and it's not fictional, but you must have a writing tip to help us kind of tap into that personal authenticity in an essay. It's just beautiful. So I've been thinking about this a lot because I knew the question was coming and um, I've been asked about like my method for writing before and I just really, I don't know. Um, I think I think about, so I write this column for garden and Gun. I've had four so far and I do most of the writing before I ever write it. Like, so I just think I drive a lot because I work here in charleston and so I just think think, think, think, think and I know exactly what it's going to be and then I'll write it and um, and that was the same way with the essays and this will make it taste good and deep run roots. Like I, I spent a lot of time, um, thinking about it and then I just like just write it, I don't know, I know that that but there's a lot of it seems like there's not a lot of time, but I spend a lot of time musing on what it's going to be um and what I want to say and I always try to make sure before I start writing anything that I know what I want to say. Mhm. Like not necessarily what it is, like, you know what the the the movement of it's going to be, but like what the end purpose of it is. That's awesome. Pre writing, pre writing, like do you write down here's three, here's three points I want to get across in this essay. No, but I'm gonna try that what you're already doing that, I'm kind of doing that, you know, I think if I try to do something bigger, like a book, you know, I would have to do that. But with an essay like so far my experience has been kind of singular, you know? Um That's that's so interesting, I think I do that too, but like specifically with essays and so like I have a hard time just write an essay for an anthology and I pitched something and then I had this totally different idea, like it just sort of like popped up, but I'll always say like, you know, like I'll when I know what it is, I'll feel it like I'll feel what the thing is like, you feel that thing and you know, and you you aren't saying in your head like the sentences, but you just, you know the story. Yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. So like my, I'm writing um I have a my column do for gardening gun on friday, and I had pitched this idea to write this story about this church that is um across in between my house and the house that I grew up in, and I passed this church my whole life, I've never even been in it and I went in it like a month ago and it felt holy and I'm not religious and it was just this big thing. And so I was like, I want to write about this, and then I started writing it and I'm like, this is not what I want to write about, but I've taken pictures of the church and the illustrator has it, and so I'm like um yeah, but you know, you know, like I knew like Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I didn't yeah, common experiences are good. Okay, so do you have a book that you could recommend for our fabulous audience tonight? Yeah, well, I thought that I would recommend another narrative cookbook and like the one that kind of inspired the way that I approached, I approach um cookbooks. It's Edna Lewis's the taste of country cooking and it's um an older book, but she blends uh recipes and food traditions and family and culture uh in a way that really made me uh feel as if I could celebrate the really mundane kind of basic things that I grew up eating and so yeah. Uh Yeah Edna Lewis is just the best her writing and recipes are amazing. Yeah I...

...have a cookbook she did with she did the cookbook with a guy who was uh right now I have that book and have come from wonderful. Now my cookbook tvr is growing as if I need more books in the house. Already know what cookbook I'm getting everybody for christmas. I want us to all sit around and talk about it. It's almost like a book club. Your cookbook like you don't want to just that's why we're texting because you don't just want to have the cookbook. You want to talk about it with someone you all should have. I'm sure that a lot of people, tons of people have done like book clubs with your books. But one of the fun things that I've noticed over the years is people doing these cookbook clubs where everybody they're reading it together and then everybody picks a dish and then they good and um cook and um send me pictures and make aprons. Yeah that's actually a program we do in the libraries and well the the before times, everybody would come and check out. This is four times and and cook it and bringing them. We'd all talk about. It was one of my favorite things to do. Oh yeah, I want to get together and do that with this cookbook and except you have to come Vivian or will be disappointed in you. I mean I totally, I feel about it, you know, There's a 5050 chance I'll come because I don't want to disappoint anyone but let me say this about do it to you. I'm just kidding. I would like to say about this cookbook in particular, like leading up to the holidays. Is that like the condiments, the flavor heroes are the most amazing gifts that you can give for christmas or Hanukkah or whatever. Um and so you know, I keep reading all these things about supply chain issues and wouldn't we just like to give people something that's consumable? I don't want anybody to give me a lamp. I want to pick my own lamp so you guys can you not send that lamp to her that we were going to? We're going to send her too late. I already sent it, you know, I'll trade it in for the lamp I want. Okay, guilty about it. Either boundaries, boundaries. Exactly. She's lamp boundaries. Alright. Speaking of book recommendations, y'all I know we told you at the beginning that we had a cover to show you and we know how much you all loved mary Alice Munro and Angela maze, The Islanders this past summer and they have a sequel coming out this next summer and it is called Search for Treasure. The young boy who was in the Islanders, Jake is back on Dewees Island and this time his dad joins him for a summer and Jake soon learns there is treasure to discover, remember when you were kids and you always hope there was like buried treasure in the yard um so his friends making love, you join him and the search is on as long as they can steer clear of Al Big Al, the biggest gator on the island. So on mary Alice's website and social pages, there will be news about a special preorder giveaway and readers will get assigned book plate and adorable alligator book mark clip. Isn't that such a cute cover? That's kind of a terrifying alligator to be honest. It kind of reminds me of Peter pan, oh it reminds me of the pond across the street from my house. I was at your last time, I was at your house, it was like dark and I was walking out to my car and I was like what if there's an alligator and I it's like dark. I mean they're not like street lamps, it's like dark and I was like, oh my gosh, this is where it ends. For me, she's going to be the alligator story. Okay, Vivian, if you don't mind sticking around for just a couple minutes, we have one more question for you before we I don't give a couple announcements. Absolutely. Okay, so if you're not hanging out with this yet on the friends and fiction official book club, you are missing out the group which is separate from us and is run by our friends Lisa Harrison and Brenda Gartner is now more than 10,000 or close to 10,000 strong. Um, so join us tomorrow november 18th on the Friends and Fiction official book Club for friends giving. We have all Hosted some recipes. They're speaking of cooking and so make sure that you come hang out tomorrow night at 7:00 EST seven and speaking of seven o'clock Eastern next week on the Friends and Fiction...

...episode. It's the 24th right here at seven. Like I said, mary Kay will be hosting the one 100th episode of Friends and Fiction. That's 101 0. There's a great traffic to uh the ladies thought that they were gathering for a few weeks, a couple months at most and look at them all now, they'll welcome Elin Hilderbrand and tim Ehrenberg, then in two weeks join them as they welcome chris swan and john hart. And if you're ever wondering about the schedule, it's always on the Friends of fiction website and also the fall schedule is up on the facebook banner on the facebook page. And have you heard about our amazing reading journals? Talk about the perfect gift. They're out now from Oxford exchange, you can add them to your christmas or holiday reading package that includes my christmas and Peachtree bluff patties. Once upon a word dr and mary case the santa suit. Um, you can also add the forest vanishing stars if you have not gotten your coffee yet from Kristen, but you can buy this alone. You can buy as a part of your package. It's a really great gift. We all have hours and are kind of obsessed with them. They're so beautiful to have this great linen cover and this pretty ribbon and this gold foil and they're just great. So they're just gorgeous for the first time. I'm going to keep track of what I read. I've never kept track New Year's resolution. And don't forget about our pad cut. Mm That thing don't forget about our podcast because it is growing like crazy. And since we have our podcast host on tonight, we will be talking much more about what's coming on at the after show with Ron on our talking turkey with butter ball after show. Okay, now Vivian, we already asked you about the best way to cook a turkey. Let's talk dressing versus stuffing. Which camp are you in? What's the difference? Which is better and corn bread or regular bread or neither. Um, well, you know, I, I think that no one, maybe I'm being too uh, I, I don't think that people stuff a bird anymore. I don't think you stuff. A bird. I don't think you stuff. A turkey. So the stuffing is that word doesn't make sense. Right? I never thought about it that way. Um, so we always called it dressing and I don't even know why except that maybe you're dressing the turkey with it. But um I grew up eating stuffers like the, with, we all did and my mom would put these like raw onions in it and I never saute them and it's like this, this memory, my job was like mixing the stuffing and like with my hands and um, it was frankly awful. So making stuffing as an adult has been my favorite thing. And to your question about corn bread or white red or whatever. I think the point is to kind of use something that you have. Um, and, and so I think that's why corn bread dressing became a thing because people would have leftover corn bread and so the drier the bread the better. Um, which is why we, you know, took great pains to buy the Pepperidge farms, like little crew Tony stale bread farm to buy stale bread. I know they really got us there, right. I can still see my mother with her arms up to her, up to her elbows in a giant aluminum, you know bowl of, she would let the white bread go stale and you know, she would be sitting there tearing it up uh the night before thanksgiving and now she did sought her onions and celery and those things. But yeah, my mom just just decided to like skip that she didn't make it the rest it did. I made a celery and onion batch and a non celery and onion batch and I was the only kid that ate the celery and onion batch and my mother used to make half of it. Um half of that oyster uh dress. I was just gonna say my aunt from Chicago would come down every year and she despised oysters and she would make such a big fuss about it. My mother would say oh Julia, I just put it in half the pan, she put it in the whole pan. Yeah, producing, it's a really interesting thing to dressing isn't for me really funny because I studied abroad um and Argentina when I was uh junior in college and I was there for thanksgiving and they don't celebrate thanksgiving there, they don't even eat turkey and I wanted to like do thanksgiving. Um And so we ordered a turkey from brazil and it came, it was like £4 with the chicken. But but this is the first time I ever could without a recipe is the point. So I bought bread in the grocery store, dried it...

...out used Theresa and so go wild with your dressing is what I would say. I like that go wild and I love thinking about just use whatever bread you've got and it is it is funny one of the questions we sometimes ask authors is um what their values were around reading and writing when they were growing up and for you to hear the values around um, cooking like that. Your mom used Stouffer's or didn't saute the onions. It's fascinating how we then shift and here you are. Yeah. It's also interesting. My mom made me read 30 minutes for every maybe read an hour for every 30 minutes of television. I wanted to watch as a child. My gosh! So you didn't ask that question But there you go. No, I am like cancer. It's not in my house. You know, it made me hate it. I would lay there and like pretend to read. Okay. But I really loved rating. But the fact that she was making me do it almost like a punishment. I wouldn't let my kids watch television on school nights. Yeah. They still, they still tell me that they're scarred by it. And no, that's good. They can take that to a therapist. Well, Vivian, Yeah, the virtual therapist. Vivian, you have been such a joy to talk to. We could talk to you for so long and there are so many questions rolling in that we didn't get to. So just know you are well loved and people love your work and your cooking and your shows and we are so honored that you visited us. So thank you for coming. Thank you. I'm so honored to be asked. Thank you. Thank you have a great thanksgiving, thanksgiving, thanksgiving. Talk your bird. Okay, talk about it to take care of Vivian. Alright, y'all That was so great. Now make sure to stay around. I know, amazing. Stay around for our talking turkey with butter ball after show because Ron is going to catch us up on the podcast and we have so much to talk about and don't forget that as we approach our 100th episode next week, you can find all of our back episodes on youtube. We are live there every week and just like we are on facebook and if you subscribe you won't miss a thing. Plus you'll have access to some really special short clips from other shows. So come back next week. Same time. Same place as we celebrate 100 episodes with Elin Hilderbrand. 100 who knew when mary Kay andrews called us and said, hey y'all, let's get on a zoom, look at us. So we'll see you all next week, Good night, go good night, but don't leave. Yeah. Mhm. Hey y'all welcome to the talking turkey, butter ball after show. We're talking turkey doesn't just mean food. Oh my gosh, she was amazing. She's incredible. She's great. Yeah, it's really funny. Like just a like think about we moved to kinston, like right, when shopping. Well maybe not right away, but a couple years after chef and the farmer had opened and I mean it was like a big deal, but not like, you know a week ago and stay nice and she would do these chefs tables and talk about all of the dishes, you know and it was just like and now I'm like oh my gosh she's just like superstar, you know it's really cool and she's so personable and her writing is so authentic and they match up match up just who she is and what she writes, she's authentic. That's another word I kept thinking of. Yeah, I think she I think she unconsciously downplays how important voice is in her writing. That's to me what separates the narrative and her cookbooks from some more who just you know other cookbooks will give you technique and they'll give you very strict rules on measuring and of those kinds of technical stuff. But when you pick up a Vivian howard book, you're picking it up for the voice. I think as much as these so many people aren't writing their own cookbooks too. I mean you know so many books out there or go straighten and so you know that she actually writes her own and she's right, even in her recipes, you can hear her voice but she can hear her voice, you understand that patty earlier. I was like yes you're right now that I know her voice, you know we're not when I did the beach house cookbook, we used a recipe tester and food stylist and food photographer um a group of women um Los demas who I knew and had known for a long time, who's a magazine photo stylist. Um so she put the team together but this team had done, I don't know how many other cookbooks, including this one cracks me up. They did a cookbook for the Duck Dynasty guys. Oh my gosh, I'm sure they wrote their essays. Yeah, the Duck...

Dynasty guys had nothing to do with it. But they were just like, you know, and then we have to write redneck recipes. Hilarious. Well when you shoot them, oh my gosh! When she when she which was the opposite of what Vivian did. But when there's this little section in the front of the book where it says what would Vivian do? And there, I mean I read them out loud to pat last night because they're hilarious. Like she would tell you to make sure you have a what? A X inch chef's night that fits well in your hand. Just these Yeah. Is that what it was 10 And I just like all these little hints and clues. I just I know I keep going on about of it. I learned so much by getting her a lot of stuff during the pandemic. I just can't say enough about it. So Ron we are so psyched to have you come from behind the podcast microphone to join us on the screen. So talk to everyone that's watching, tell us a bit about all the exciting things going on with the podcast. Oh my God, there's so much we are already looking at, we're booking into like March of next year, so I'm not gonna give too much away, but the next few weeks are going to be amazing. Um this week we have the return of Mary Alice Monroe, she's with a couple of her um publishing buddies, talking about writing for Children. And I just got a sneak peek of the episode for the following week. And it's so good. We're going to break it up into our first ever two part episode, Country music legends, kim Richie and Gretchen Peters. And it gave me goose bumps to listen to them again on this. They sing, It's just incredible. And um I just, I can't wait for people to hear it. So David tuned for that next week. Then the following week, Patty You and I did one together recently. That was really exciting about a book, Doctors and Friends, by kim Marie martin, All medical action, but it's kind of terrifying. Yeah, because she was writing about depression. Yes. So how many episodes are we up to now? 30 maybe at the end of this? At the end of this month, the music episode, the first one is going to be there 25th episode. My gosh, every single friday. Every single friday 25. And and I again, I, I just can't thank you all enough for having me join you to do these things. Uh you have no idea what it's doing, it's just, I love it, I love it so much, so much. And tomorrow I was like a personal thing Christie and I would would bond over this one tomorrow. I'm actually um anybody has anybody a fan of the housewives or bravo there? Yeah, and so jealous. So amy phillips who does impressions of all the housewives is put out a cookbook with an actual chef about and and kind of making parody of the housewife, some of their famous sayings and situations and it's actually a great cookbook, I've been making things from it, it's amazing. So that's coming up soon in early december, but I get to hang out with amy phillips and all the housewives tomorrow, so stay tuned for that. So fun, That's right, that's going to be fantastic. Really fantastic. You know, I had a good time a couple weeks ago when I did the podcast um with um stir Kosowski is my literary agent, my longtime literary agent of more than 20 years and his wife Pamela dorman who um is the head of Pamela dorman books, which is an imprint at viking and um I've known them for a long time and I think, I think they're really interesting people, they're fast, they're funny, they're so smart. Um and so um I had as much fun asking questions and hearing their answers that I hope especially, I think aspiring writers will want to listen to it, but also people, if you love books, I think it's interesting to find out, well what is a, what does an editor look for in a book and what does, what does an agent looking for in a book? And and Stewart talked a little bit about how he he um he said, you know, whenever I've I've taken an author or a project on, because my head told me it was the right thing to do, he said it doesn't work out, it has to be, my partner has to tell me, my heart has to say you've got to have this. And then pam talked about being she's so competitive, competitive that, you know, when when she gets when she gets a manuscript um an agent um um an agent um gives her, she said she locked herself in the room and the whole time she's reading it, she'll freak out. I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta get it. What if someone else gets it? And I just thought I love that. So...

I think I hope, I hope people enjoy listening to it as much as Ron and I enjoy doing it. Oh, it's so interesting. In fact, I got a fan letter today that I forwarded to, you know, I forwarded it to pam. Good, it's nice, people are listening and they're loving it. So it's great and you know, that there's such a theme, you know, if you think about like, what Vivian was talking about tonight and talking about Stuart and pam and I think about the episode Ron that we did with Ali Larkin and how she was talking about, you know, being with an editor that really wanted to change this story and she was like this in so many ways the story of my life, and if this is an authentic story that I'm telling, I can't change it. And and I mean really, like, I think about something like really in particular that um the Vivian turned down and I I don't think I could have, you know, like she was like, it's not it's not the thing, it's not the thing, and I'm like, I can't imagine turning that down, you know? So it's really interesting to just kind of think about re centering and feeling like, you know, what is it that I'm supposed to be doing? Where is it that, you know, my heart tells me and um you know, what's the book I'm supposed to be writing? What's the project is to take on, because it is easy to get really caught up and so much noise, you know, and you do get to a point where you have to turn some things down. I'm so good at it. Yeah, all of us are saying that I don't think so. I think we were like, when do we agree to all this stuff? And then it's like all at once, and you're like, oh God, who said yes to this? Yes. Oh my God, it's so true. So Ron you have nancy you and nancy johnson or doing something to write? Yes. We're putting together something to celebrate the paperback release at the end of january for her, the kindest lie that we love, and we're inviting a new debut author on with us and it's still details to be worked out. But she's going to co host with you, that she's going to co host and she's going to pass off the baton a little bit for debuts. Oh, I love that. And we interviewed kim Marie martin, which was so her book, Doctors and Friends, which was so interesting for me because she's an er doctor and I used to be a nurse and she takes her experiences from being a doctor and writes these astounding medical um narratives that are so interesting and I've never approached a story from my old job, but she wrote about the pandemic before the pandemic. It's crazy. So the book is about a pandemic that hits. I know, I know, so, Ron we've all talked about our thanksgiving plans. What are yours? Well apparently I'm spatula cocking a turkey. Yes, you are. I am actually ordered it from the butcher, although I'm really good at a chicken. I have never done a turkey to do all that? So the butcher is doing that for me. Do you do your chicken on the grill or do you do it in the oven? Both both. And I'm actually going to try the turkey on the grill. But now after hearing Vivian, I want to try that layer of Brenda. I'm like that makes it sound easy instead of all the other stuff. We're very traditional, very traditional dishes. The things I mix up a lot are the, like the sides. Like I think this year is going to be some kind of a kale dish or I've done butternut squash salad and different things like that. But the main thing is that this is where we're eating at home since I moved to Ohio, we always ate at a friend's house and had an amazing time, wonderful time. But I would always have to come home and the next day go to the store and buy all the things again. So I could make thanksgiving dinner again because I didn't have leftovers and I love the process. So no, I do it again. But it's going to be traditional. I know I'm afraid to change. Thanks to all playing this patch cop drinking game. Thank you Shawn. That's a fantastic. That's a great idea. I like to do, I am going to dispatch cock a pomegranate uh tomorrow man you've always been. Um, but we're such traditionalist. I would be and it's such, you know, the whole Henry family gets together and pat's mom is a a huge traditional gourmet cook. I would be terrified to scratch cock that chicken, that turkey, So, and meg asked a great question on the chat, she said, does it ruin the presentation value for thanksgiving? I don't think anybody cares about the pros anymore, You can, I don't know about the turkey because turkey is bigger, but like sometimes it feels as a chicken, like you can put it back together on the plate, like if you don't like you because you're splaying it out, but it's still like, we don't carve our tom, we don't carve the turkey at the dining room table, that's too messy. No, no, very norman Rockwell of you Cathy I know, but we're not a very norman Rockwell group. Well it makes me think of christmas with, what is that hilarious christmas movie? The Griswald and he cuts it open and just...

...all this you're no joke. I feel like that is a lot of times on my turkey is like, I would pull it out and I'm like, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It's like golden and I never made the one for like the main event, Sometimes I'll try to make it, I'm like, this is gorgeous, like this is an award winning turkey and then I carve it and I'm like, I actually bought 1 um the one I made a couple of days ago was like butter ball, does these ones that are like in a bag and you actually, what we did to the bag. It was so good. I was like, this is the first like non dry turkey I've ever made because you like, you can't mess it up, you stick it in the oven in the bag and it was the juices in. Okay. I'm gonna go find one of those. Yeah, we, we did one um last sunday and it was delicious and simple. Um Everyone loved it. We had enough. I think we had six for dinner and we had enough. We have a neighbor who doesn't cook. And so, um you should call him and say, hey, come get a plate. Um So yeah, that was and they have, they have a boneless one to a boneless turkey breast was a boneless breast. See mine had the bone in and I would like that because I'm going to have saved the carcass to make gravy. Oh, I'm gonna get to make stock for my great, so many cooking goals. The breast actually had a gravy packet in it. We didn't know we had that too because I like carved it for dinner for sandwiches and stuff. But that's great. Yeah, I saw your picture of it and I was like butter ball turkey in a bag. I'm hungry. When is thanksgiving? I'm gonna, I'm gonna start making my gravy stuff tomorrow. I think if I have time I made my cranberry. So I hope to video it and I'll post it. Yeah. Um so I bought some turkey wings and turkey neck, which is what my mother always used to use. And I actually actually just because I found him, I found some butter ball turkey drumsticks. So I'm going to roast all of those off and use the pan drippings to make my gravy ahead of time. Please video that please. Unless it looks terrible, then I won't do it, it won't look terrible. It'll be great. You know what that is? You know, I'm at the age for, um, I used to could call my mom and say, hey mom, how did you do that? You know how you know what, how do I use what? And, and she loved to tell everyone how to do everything. And because you were, there was only one way to do it, right? And it was soos way I can't do that anymore. But she did, she didn't tell me a lot of about, so now my kids have to call me and ask me, and we have to call you and ask you. And I don't know that. It was really fun when we were getting those are those recipes together for kristen. I actually went to see my grandmother that day and I was like, well I gave her the brown rice recipe and I'm just checking it's this, this, this and this and she was like, yeah, but it's like, told me this thing that I've forgotten and I was like, oh my gosh, it was so, it's amazing past nobody. Somebody says nobody's mentioned the thanksgiving desserts. Well, those are the best part, real whipped cream with real heavy cream whipped in the kitchen and a cold metal bowl. Hello, What's your favorite? Uh we can't talk about that wrong. We have a game next week. We're not allowed to tell our favorite pies secret. Find out next week. I make close friends. I always make Andy his own. He loves pumpkin pie so much. So I, you know when you buy a candidate uh pumpkin pie filling, it makes two pies. So one pie is strictly hits. No one can touch Andy's pumpkin pie. And there's, I have a recipe for it in the in the Beach House cookbook. And and when I was researching that recipe, I found somewhere, somebody said add fresh ground black pepper. No, and it is amazing. I love that idea what fresh ground black pepper does too, pumpkin pumpkin pie. I mean along with the clothes and the nutmeg, it really kind of, it kind of brightens it somehow. The cranberry sauce I made yesterday and have all Children ready to go added ginger and pepper and I it's delicious. I think I'm making that this year. I usually do some kind of a fun, but it's usually like orange and cranberry, but that one I'm, yeah, it's orange and cranberry and it has pomegranate seeds to uh fancy like that dang. I didn't go that far dispatch pomegranate. Yeah,...

...that's what you should make sure that's what you gotta do is take a picture of your stature, cock pomegranate. Do you actually take them all apart and take all those seeds out of the bombs, huh? What do they call them there? They have a name, those little deeds, know there something sills. Yeah, pomegranate, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. Oh God, that like makes me feel, why can't I remember that? It's just called them the pomegranate. Something's tills somebody right now is typing it on the page 100% and weekend. I hope they will, if sean, if sean were any were worth as a v nerd salt, he would be Googling that and telling us right now. Alright, y'all talk about cooking. I'm going to go my, my dinner downstairs, good night everyone, wait about, we have to talk about the turkey, yep. So before we leave we will see you next week. And just a reminder that butter ball is celebrating the 40th anniversary of its Turkey talk line which started as just a phone line. Fresh carols, carols! Carols, carols, thank you, meg walk crossword word. That's a good one and they have a website and they're even on instagram and Tiktok, of course we all know that we can call in with last minute questions about our scratch cocking on thanksgiving day, but they're actually open even now through the end of december. So you have any Turkey questions at all? Call the Turkey hotline and give them a call or check out their website and that's it for tonight, y'all. We'll see you next week for 100 episodes tonight, y'all. Thank you for tuning in. You can join us every week on facebook or Youtube, where our live show airs on Wednesday nights at seven p.m. Eastern time. Also subscribe to our podcast and follow us on instagram. We're so glad you're here. Yeah.

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