Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 3 months ago

WB-S2E16 The V.C. Andrews Story

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

WRITERS' BLOCK Ron Block interviews acclaimed author Andrew Neiderman about his new biography, The Woman Beyond The Attic: The VC Andrews story. Mr. Neiderman has been ghostwriting the V.C.Andrews books since the author's death. He shares intimate details and never shared secrets about her life and career.

This show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Charleston Coffee Roasters. Charleston coffee roasters painstakingly searches the world over for the highest quality coffee beans. They bring them home to Charleston, South Carolina, where slow roasting coaxes out their unique flavor. Along with their promise of great coffee, Charleston Coffee Roasters also pledges to help our planet and local communities. Globally, they support sustainable farming practices. Locally, they partner with the South Carolina seed Turtle Rescue Program Visit Their website, Charleston Coffee Roasterscom, and use the code coffee with friends, all lowercase, all one word, to get twenty percent off on all bagged coffees, which she had a fastionating journey to that point. First of all, she was artistic. She was a great little artist when she was in the second grade, third grade, I think of watch. She was actually identified by Franklin Lord Right as a billion child when it came to arch character and drawing perspective, and that just started everything off. She got private lessons in our she sold her are that she thought of herself as an artist first, because she was helping five, but she slowly slipped into what she always reading to be, and that was a writer. Welcome to the friends and Fiction Writers Block podcast For New York Times Best Selling Authors, one rock star Librarian and endless stories. Join Mary K Andrews, Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callahan Henry, along with Ron Block. As novelists. We are for longtime friends with seventy books between us, and I am Ron Block. Please join us for fascinating author interviews and inside or talk about publishing and writing. If you love books and are curious about the writing world, you are in the right place. Welcome to a new episode of the friends and Fiction Writers Block podcast. This week we take a fascinating deep dive into a literary phenomenon, as well as the enduring legacy of a writer who's so many readers credit with being their first book obsession. Of course, we're talking about VC Andrews, and we are so thrilled to have the author of a new biography of Miss Andrews here, Andrew Neiederman. Andrew Niederman is the author of numerous novels of suspense and terror, including deficiency, the baby squad under abduction, dead time, the curse in double jeopardy, the dark surrogate child and the devil's advocate, which some of you may have heard of. It was made into a major motion picture starring altpa she no, Keanu Reeves and Charlie's their own. What might not be widely known is that, following her death from cancer, Andrew became the ghostwriter for the phenomenonknown as VC Andrews. There are more than nine d VC Andrews novels to his credit, which have sold over one hundred and seven million copies worldwide and have been translated into twenty five language how's that for a plot twist? In fact, publishers weekly says of the new biography titled The woman beyond the Attic. The VC Andrews story has been hailed by publishers weekly, who said, combining a novelist eye for detail with personal knowledge gleaned from his years as VC Andrews Ghostwriter, Niederman unpacks the famed Gothic writers notoriously private life is scrupulously unravels mysteries that are still swirling around the novelists life. Today, fans will be transfixed. That's quite a...

...quite a heap of praise. They're and you're welcome to the PODCAST. Thank you. Yeah, we were so excited about that. What agree they and the book is just fascinating. I got a copy of it and I tore through it. I tore through it as a young person who credits VC Andrews. Flowers in the attic is like a gateway drug. Every part of it was so fascinating. Give you give us all of just kind of a brief overview of the book. Well, what, on a purpose was exactly what you're saying, that tied to basic and his personal life and all the events of her life in with flowers in the attic, because throughout the forty year history of it, it's amazing that still sells us with it much as it does. If the forty years fans have been wondering how much of the actual story was in her life. What were the events in her life that she used to make this story? And one of the things the book does, when behind the be on the attic, does is it shows us where the story originated, how originated and what part of it she felt was her personal life and what was not. So much of it was assumed to be her personal life and at times she was amused by that and at times she wanted to make sure that people understood that personally they were just there was no incest in her family. That was a big thing, and flowers in the attic and she wants to make that clear. She came from a simple southern family. Father was in the military until a mother insisted he get out and get a job and they live with her grandparents for a while and then they started their life with two brothers. She started life with two brothers and she was the Middle Child. At the time they lived in Rochester, New York, were he had a job working for eyeglass and Sunglass Company, and then they move back to Portsmouth where she became very famous, but not right away. Yea. The most amazing thing about VC Andrews is that she did not publish until she was fifty five years old, and for most notes and the writing world that seems almost incredible to believe because it would stick with it the long but she had fascinating journey to that point. She was first fall if she was artistic. Artistic, she was a great little artist when she was in the second grade, third grade, I think it was. She was actually identified by Franklin Lord Wright as a brilliant child when it came to architecture and drawing perspective, and that that just started everything off. She got private lessons in art, she sold her art and she thought of herself as an artist first because she was so confined, but she slowly slipped into what she always dreamed to be, and that was a writer, trying hard to publish short stories, like everybody. And eventually, the age of fifty five, after a ruling life of being handicapped, she caught the attention of the of her age and literary agent, having to be my lid Asian time as well, and from there the story just blossomed into an amazing production. I think flowers in the act pretty sure was the fastest selling mess market original in American publishing history. When it came out, it just zoomed right to the top of all the list nobody anticipated that are become the world wide best sell that it did. They had no idea at the time. Her whole life literally changed overnight once step book was published. This woman who was confined in handicapped for so many years, actually since the age of fifteen, forty years suddenly was open to the world and became a very famous American author. Everybody warned it...

...was difficult for her to travel, but she did it. At time she actually owes and on a flat pick truck, you know, on a board, to get her two places. That's how she couldn't sit up more than forty percent, forty five percent sitting position. So it was difficult, but she just continued to push forward and she went to book signings, she spoke to writers groups and the book continue to sell and she would write into the sequels and everything after that is just phenomenal literary history. It really is. And I know remember being young and we were passing that book around like it was such a scandal and what it's like, Oh, did you read this? Did you read this? It was either that is Stephen King. It was a forbid novel and actually at one point, I haven't publishers put that on the new books called the forbidden VC Andrews, because for a log instead of her life, that book was actually Banns, you know, flowers and a hack with banned and many parts of the Americ of the libraries and libraries and America, the band the book and of course, like anything else, when it's banned it becomes more salable. So best thing you can happen to is your book gets banned. Anybody with you know why, and itsells more. And the units have banded just defeated their own purpose, which was to keep people from reading flowers in the attic. They just encourage people to read it. So I then began to sell everywhere on the world and I could tell you now that there is not a publisher in the world. And the words. Every country has its own publishers and to some extent, and every country that has one publish as flowers in the attic including, and this might be a little bit surprising, mainland China has taken flowers and really because they do a little bit of a Bridgeman in it, but they have published it. So I can't tell you a place in the world where it hasn't been published. Wow, that's that's pretty fascinating that it's global. And but what do you what do you attribute to the enduring legacy of it? I think the fact that she created her own genre in a sense, they couldn't when first started. They didn't know whether to put in Tara her general fiction. Why a well, why I didn't really exist yet. Why a meaning young adult literature. I A tribute that to flowers in the attic actually, because a whole old world of new kind of novels became created out of this phenomena. What is why and how did they get created? Basically, She mastered the formula of a young person who endures adult issues. So in followers in the attic I mean these three kids that are trapped that their teenage years. Of obviously the adult issues relate to their maturing sexual maturity, maturing as people and treatment by their mother and grandma. And Virginia was always fascinated with the the problem of why people who love each other hurt each other so much. Sho those people should be ones, she felt, as you do the best to help each other. So she kind of fascinated with the that whole issue and she started looking around her and finding that family dysfunction was not something unique. It was everywhere. And months I started, you know, I was writing novels that had some basically have that in it. It's just the difference between my novels and VC Andrews Lie in the graphics of my descriptions, the fact that I dealt with violence. She is the most the violent thing in any of her seven books or somebody being pushed down a stairway. That was it. And of course my books went into all kinds of fire us. I was worked out to paddle with Mary Higgins Clark in New Orleans and she...

...did up, she was ahead of me and she went through a description of her books and the way it was my turn. I said, well, I did the same thing Mary does, except I had sex and violence. It's it was quite a reaction to that. Was a lot of fun. But basically you have to remember that Virginia was working out of a world of innocence even into the age of fifty five, and so her descriptions, her graphics were a lot more always called purple pros, you know, working around these things because she wasn't into all the terrible things that you would put in terror books. This morning I read an interesting difference between hire and Tara, which I might share what you right now because I think it explains VC Andrews a lot very well, because she is classified in so many different places and books for her, and I think the best definition is this. The horror is something that's beyond reality, that scares us or that that terrorizes our does damage to us, and Tara is basically something real that will be frightening to you, but it's got to be real. In other words, is no ghosts, there's no vampires in that sense, there's no none. The supernatural is basically the importance to it, to vcy Andrews and novels. Even though I did do a series that involved the vampire, I did it from the point of view of the family rather than the actual vampiic lore of garlic and nighttime all that stuff, and state technically it was a family dysfunction where the far they having to be a vampire, but the terror didn't come from that so much. So basically what Virginia did was she explored these terrifying things that happen in family life and she basically made that into a genre and of itself, and I picked up that and the first series I did that was completely without the Virginia's notes or anything. Wasn't doing which we're doing now. I'm going to start producing it in May for the lifetime network. They are five books. We are going to start at the first for called the Cutler series and it's basically the premise here is a girl discovers fifteen years later that her parents kidnapped her. Shit. These are not really her parents. So it that's throughout that thrust of that plot premise sends us off into this crazy family that runs a hotel in Virginia Beach. I used to Virginia area because that's where that's where Virginia Andrews lived. She was honored Enofolk Virginia. In fact, the first year our started to write Virginia Andrews, that's what they called their notables. That seemed logical to me that she would know that area and basically that was worth it took place. So the big news for you and for your listeners right now is that any networks studio has bought the VC angrews franchise and what this means. It took fourteen months of negotiations, of work, but basically I achieved it, and what it means is that the VC Andrews novels, which of which, as you properly mentioned, there ninety one nuance, will now be in a film TV series plant that all time. So we're starting with the column series, is I just mentioned. It will be in net following summer and this summer we're doing the TV series flowers in the adapt the origins, which was the first book I wrote, Garden of Shadows, and that will tell us how it all began. And it's done in for to our segments. So it's eight hours, which is a great way to do one novel because you can get so much in it and add...

...so much to it. And this will be probably about July. will announce it really soon the actual date. And it has two wonderful English actors playing the leads of Malcolm and Olivia. Is Max irons, Jeremy IANS, the actor's son, the Olivias played by Jemina Roper, who is a terrific actress in England. She's been in so many television and movies there. And then we have two American actors, Harry Hamlin and Kelsey Gramma, we may and may not have heard of, but I was reading that earlier in the mile. Amazing thing about it was we had we did it during the COVID pandemic, highlight in a high time, and we went to Romania to do it for partly the reason that that made a convenient and also the cost, obviously is a big factor invite and shooting overseas and they had everything in remaining that was necessary. They have the studio system, so they have the sound systems. Everything was there. So it was easy for the English actors to get over there and once I got over there, they have stale. It was I think couldn't go back and forth. You know who, we can shoot their partner and let him go. But obviously Max Irons and Karen Mine, a roper, had steak for the entire eight hours of filming. When I say eight hours, the filming, though, but it's really ours. I mean it could take two hours to do fifteen minutes easy, right. Yeah, so I'm often asked if you enjoy being a movie set side. So I know, because it's a lot of waiting. Yes, every time something's change and they have to Redo lighting, the sun moves and all that stuff. Is a lot of waiting until get it right. So it's not an exciting voice to be, believe me. No, but at the end watching it is that. Yeah, I love that is going to be kind of a miniseries because, like you said, there's so much more that they can do with it and it is the hot thing right now, like Netflix and Hulu and their series are just taken off and everybody wants them and binges them and yes, it'll be great. The friends and fiction writers block podcast is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, page one books. The page one book subscription provides the personal touch of an Indie bookstore with the delight and surprise of an online subscription service created chest for you. The literary matchmakers at page one books hand select books just for you based on your preferences and their knowledge. At page one books, you are more than algorithm. Shop now at page one BOOKSCOM. That's page the number one BOOKSCOM. Choose their three, six or twelve month subscription plan. The gift of page one is always a custom fifth and now you can get fifteen percent off all book subscriptions with the Code Friends Fifteen. Let's go back just a little bit and tell me how you actually got involved with taking on the persona basically as I began expression. I have the same agent that you had and one day at lunch she caught my books, especially early fellers, had young people in them and a couple of them are very, very much we're on the borderline of being vcre's novels such as whee were fain to a film was pin Pi in and it was about to chow and of a doctor who brings them up very strictly and in...

...his office he has an anatomical dummy through which he throws his voice. He does effort his pediatric patients, makes the kids feel at home, but his son unbeknownst to him and begins to develop a relationship with that doll and his other personality gets transformed into the doll and that becomes just about O vc Andrew's novel in a way. So it was a feature film. Had Terry O Quinn play the doctor, who is very wellknown from television, and two wonderful young Canadian actors who did a terrific job on it and it became a cult classic. And then I went on to write other novels with young people, and so my agent said one day lunch I think they're going to ask you to finish a Vic Andrews novel and I said what do you mean and she explained how six she was and I began to study Vic Andrews, basically style and content, material, vocabulary, everything just the way you do research paper and I was teaching creative ranng it's time, so it was a natural move for me to do that. I my first novel that I ever published with some title sisters and it was from a female point of view. So I was able to do that and all but one VC Andrews novel on the Whole Library of them is from the female point of view and that's the way it's going to be and that's the way it stake. So I was able to do that. And when people ask me how come I can do that, I usually refer to Shakespeare in love and say it's a mystery. I can't explain it either. It's just I use my wife for a lot of the technical stuff. But basically I think a writer has to be something of a multi personality to start with. We have it. You have to get into your characters and once you get through you have them created as full people. They take over your story anyway. So basically that's that's my best explanation for it and that's how I started and nobody knew would go on. The publisher said what might go on and everything I wrote was Number One New York Times best seller. And fans accepted it and it went on. We're now, as I say, we're in the forty first year. You See Andrews, it's me, but publishing. I would say safely that VC Andrews is the longest published to consistently book franchise in American history. I would totally buy that. Yeah, well, yeah, you have things like the Nancy drew stories, people story and all that, but new novels on the same authorship, same style, consistently for forty one years. The others are just reprints. This is original content that you're putting us in this more common yes, yes, his yes. So through all of this, how do you differentiate between the voice of VC Andrews and your own voice in your books? Is there any intermingling? Probably, anybody who studies writing would be able to find it. I mean it's certainly should be. But basically, as I said, before I studied, she had a certain approach to everything that I began to master and basically her vocabulary is a lot different from my mind and my books she made. I think she did better with settings, in the sense that she created settings that became characters in the book. You're very true. Was So tied to the setting. So, for example, Foxworth hole and flowers in the attic is basically it's almost a person. It's just this. It's an eerie structure that has influence on the characters. The attic is so important to downstairs and some points it's like heaven and Hell and as that's what goes on upstairs in the attic work was on downstairs and I think that that was...

...a factor that she part of probably influence me in my own work that I would make more of settings than I ever did before, and so it's settings are always the important thing in the Vic Andrews novels my neck. The next book is coming out in days, is March fifteen. It's called becoming my sister and it's set in the movie. But we call the movie colony of Palm Springs, which is an area of the city where movie produces and directors and actors and Actresses Board Holmes and basically fun. But in that the day deliberately did it, but it became where they went. So I think when the newest ones is lean on out DiCaprio's houses there. So basically it's in that area because the mother who buys this oldest state owned by an all an old film producer, isn't in factuated or with the lives of the actors who used to celebrate parties in this House and on this escape to the extent that she she denies her own children the tension as they need. In this case two girls, one brilliant, the other one kind of sibling rivalry, but all set in this world. It's almost Ghostie, because the mother believes that everything in the House has got a sacred, sacredness to it. For example, there's a wall with where actors wrote their signatures and you can't touch it, you can't do anything to smudget, you know, and that's true basically the all because in palm springs and this area people have houses that were owned by chrry grants and actors and actresses. So they do treat it like almost like a religious place. Well, yeah, in our world where we have this terrific sibling rivalry event and then a mystery when one of them disappears. So well, well, I got to look at the cover early and it is like, you know, they say the covers everything sometimes and then it's like if you're walking by it in an airport, that's the book I'm going to pick up. It's a great cover and if they do great jobs with covers, and we go back and forth a little bit on it, but basically they're they do it. They did really gallery books and pocketbooks and passed. I've always emphasized the covers and of course the early obviously Hams books all have the whole and milk covers which we came niture vci Andrews and in fact when I publisher, tried to do it, Simon Choose to stud the drove them out of doing it because it was the vic, others, insignia. Yeah, they're very expensive, so they don't do them so much anymore because of that, because you have already call a step back cover inside. That's a lot of artwork and circus expensive. Yeah, and it's very it's very iconic to you know what you're looking at as soon as you see it. So obviously it belongs to somebody. So what motivated you to actually tell the story in this biography? I thought at this point, it's been forty years, I thought it's time that the public all the mysteries and all the questions that have just been confusing readers for years and the guessing had come had to come to an end and the families elderly and I wanted them to have that gift of the of the biography of Virginia and I used everything in it is real and the sense that we have her personal letters are personal thoughts. We have the testimony of her living relatives, which at this point is basically assist in law eighty seven years old, her nephew and niece. There's not enough on aunt who is a hundred and four, who watching my mother sister, and so her feedback on what life was like back then and what her mother was like as an earl, you know, was a young woman, was very important and very good. First half she's still alive and by now I'm Cherseley's seeing the book. So and then I had a cousin that was very close to Virginia, very very close, best friend, and her feedback was...

...just very, very important. So with all that, I thought I can't let it go now, I've got to do it, put everything aside and get this done. So it's it's been out for three or four weeks and one behind beyond the attic. We thought that was a good title. It's a great title. Yeah, and because it's true. She's the woman beyond the end and even though she lived in an addict of her own caused by her illness, which she's a big mystery to a lot of people. But basically it was a bone spur that was operated on. Never really done well. Put in a body kiss. That was wrong. She became even more paralyzed and that she did anything with all that against her is amazing. And then there was always the questions about her mother. Was Her mother the grandmother and flowers in the attic? She I think she she answered it yes or no, because her mother really had control of her life and was, I want to say, the backest. The proper word is that her mother was ashamed of her illness and she she think she felt guilty about it and she just didn't want her daughter to be any kind of freakish character out there on the porch and stuff. So she she got it her with with a lot of I am clayed, and that made her seem like the grandmother in the attic. But once Virginia became wellknown and everybody the world one of the seer, her mother changed. She became her almost our PR agent. She took her everywhere, she escorted it to everything and she became part of it and she accepted her. But she never read flowers in the ADDIC. That's what that was just going to say. I'd I can't believe that she never read it. Yeah, and she. And when she heard it was about she was but she was astonished, you know. And Virginia's actually says I never show my mother anything. I rodea after that because she was just thrown back by it. And now mother wasn't in the early days. Wasn't that conservative, going to ancessive what they call? Yeah, it was his sister and she describes a Ram bunch of the young woman who went to naval dancers and found her husband. But our kind of father forbidder to go out and all that. But she did it. But she became very conservative in our old of time and it just didn't fit having a daughter who wrote the most shocking novel of the time because of the inclusion of incests. Right, incests interesting. You can get away with it in books, but you probably count on your fingers how many movies have incest in them. That's true. And it wasn't the original flowers in the attic. It just totally shied away from that aspect. Yeah, they didn't dead did it at all, and of course the fans complained. The books the movie still did very well. But when lifetime took it on, they've courage to let the incest go the way it was in the book and they had their biggest night of the year at six point one million viewers. Wow, wow, and from then on they knew this was but for me it was very difficult on Hollywood because for thirty years I tried to sell these changers to studios and producers and I was always pushed back because of the ancestro and caught with the ask and I would say, but yeah, but it's not in this series. No, insist in this right, it doesn't exist in this it was just like the Great Wall of trying to break over something. It was really hard and when we did folly breakthrough, I had producer that picked up this want to do a wheelhouse and movies, so we got together and went around town selling and we finally pushed through with lifetime. It began the avalanche of movies that we see now.

We will be airing eighteen our movies, essentially by the summer straight eighteen movies one network. That's pretty big. That's huge go on now. So I think in a few years to the usually easily say twenty, thirty straight movies of one author. It's going to be. It's going to be one for the books for sure. Well, I'm reading the book. I really was struck by all the things that people imagine. There's a lot of fodder out there about the motivation of Virginia and what we're it all came from and how she came up with their stories, but the book really puts it in perspective in a way that I think not only readers can say, okay, this is how where it all came from, but also other writers can actually kind of relate to how your own personal thing doesn't you don't tell your story, but these little things can be the germ of imagination. Yeah, I always advise young rise not to talk their story. Once you tell your story, you use up the passion that you need to keep so bottled up inside you that you can't wait to get back to the this day and age computer to write it. So I might keep my stories right up to the very end. Until that I that final period completely inside myself, nobody. I wouldn't even tell my wife or my family what I'm working on because to me, spending it is the worst thing you can do. Once it's done, then you know, you learn how to talk about it. In fact, I would tell your listeners that the technique of selling to Hollywood isn't it self a different talent. If you're going to sell your story yourself, not you know, you got an agent, but nobody's going to have a passion for your story that you have. Nobody. So I enjoyed going around town telling my stories to produce as some studios, and basically what it amounts to is within five minutes, I would say, which is long, believe me. For a producer you have got to get the essence of your story, the characters were it's going to be said, what the hooks are and why it'll make them money. You got to be able to do that in five minutes, because after that you loosen their attention. That's that's a great plaint I think it's in the book where you have the sentence that hooked them about the devil's advocate becoming a movie. Yeah, I saw that on one line. It basically was this is a story about a law firm in New York that represents only guilty people and never loses. They just sat back and everything follows from that. You know how, why, where? Who is it? And then all the hooked him. You hooked him important. So at the end of this book a great surprise, not not at b means great surprise, but it's nice to see, is a never published first draft that was run by Virginia. Can you talk about including that? Yeah, I was looking for something that she left. You know, basically she didn't have anything of novel length, but she had a book that was she was thinking about and she had done a partial on it and I thought it would be fun for the fans to read the partial and then come up with their own endings for it based on what they learned from reading. VC Andrews most of their lives, so, or good part of the adult life, I should say, and that just seem to be a natural thing to do. And are also was given her original poems and even songs that you wrote. So I make sure it include all that biography so when time someone has finished, they have the essence of who this woman was, what she wore, and you know what her writing was like. Yeah, yeah, I think any readers going to come away with this, this full picture of this beloved author, and...

...really understand better. And it's just masterful. Now you actually pulled it out together from such different things, because she's known as playing cat and mouse with reporters to Oh yeah, yes, she told a lot of deliberate lies, just because she wasn't fond of them. Be Honest with it. She she never got over the way people, magazine that depicted her in an article, pictures that made a look cheeks like gruesome as a handicap person. And so it always seemed reporters who made that mistake. You know, they first meet her and they said, well, what is your so sickness like? Girl, wow is it? How can you work being a wheelchair? I mean that just put her off right away. She said Right, Oh, I want to talk about my work, I don't want to talk about myself and my illness. And so the best way, one of the ways in which she decided to do it, was lie to him, exaggerating the things, and one point she described a surgery where the surgeon had a stroke during surgery and cut off for a hip. I mean it was all kinds of crazy things, but I can appreciate what she was feeling. You know, she wanted to be seen as a whole person and not as a handicap person, and she did beautiful job of getting that across whenever she was in public. People didn't you know. Yeah, it's quite a story and I appreciate that you published it, for sure. So, Andrew, I can't thank you enough for joining the podcast today. I knew when this idea was brought to me that I had to do it because, like so many other people, we were drawn to the scandalous nature of the VC undrew books in the late s and many of us have not let go on all these years. So thank you for continuing this lineage and I we are so looking forward to a great deal more from you, both as vc unders and as yourself, because both are amazing. Thank you so much and you will see a lot more. There is going to be a lot of exciting things happening. Can't wait. Can't wait. And on behalf of Mary K Andrews, Patty Callaghan, Christen Harmel and Christie Woodson Harvey, thank you for Tuning in for this episode. We appreciate our listeners more than we can ever say. Be Sure to visit the friends and fiction bookshoptorg page to purchase books from today's guest, as well as past guests, and the Fab for all well helping our beloved indie booksellers. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please tell a friend. Thank you to our presenting sponsors, Charleston Coffee Roasters and page one books for their generous support. Show our sponsors some love by following them on facebook and instagram and subscribing to their email newsletters. Remember use code coffee with friends for twenty percent off bagged coffees at Charleston Coffee Roasters, and code friends, plural friends fifteen, for fifteen percent off book subscriptions at Page One. Thank you for tuning in to the friends and fiction writers block podcast. Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review on your favorite podcast platform. Tune in every Friday for another episode, and you can also join us every week on facebook or youtube, where our live friends and fiction show airs at seven P M Eastern Standard Time. We are so glad you're here.

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