Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 1 month ago

WB-S2E22 The Grand Design

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

WRITERS' BLOCK Joy Callaway joins Ron Block and Kristy Woodson Harvey to talk about her fascinating new book, The Grand Design

This show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Charleston Coffee Roasters. Charleston coffee roasters painstakingly searches the world over for the highest quality coffee beans. They bring them home to Charleston, South Carolina, where slow roasting coaxes out their unique flavor. Along with their promise of great coffee, Charleston Coffee Roasters also pledges to help our planet and local communities. Globally, they support sustainable farming practices. Locally, they partner with the South Carolina seed Turtle Rescue Program Visit Their website, Charleston Coffee Roasterscom, and use the code coffee with friends, all lowercase, all one word, to get twenty percent off on all bagged coffees. The greenbrier is a character. I was going to say that exact thing. I was going to stop you into the green bars really character in this fuck. It really is, and it's really cool to have that dynamic because even when you know we're when you play a history too, and I know Christie and I, I'm sure we have so many similarities as far as how we stay true to history or kind of our rules with that, but it made it tricky a little bit because I had to stay true to some history with Dorothy, dorothy's life in some parts of the book and really stick to that and then stay true to the green briers history and other parts of the book, and it was an interesting and fun balancing actor try to find find the story and stay tree of fact. Also, welcome to the friends and fiction writers block podcast. For New York Times Best Selling Authors, one rock star Librarian and endless stories. Join Mary K Andrews, Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callahan Henry, along with Ron Block. As novelists. We are for longtime friends with seventy books between us, and I am Ron Block. Please join us for fascinating author interviews and inside or talk about publishing and writing. If you love books and are curious about the writing world, you are in the right place. Welcome to a new episode of the friends and Fiction Writers Block podcast. I am Bron Block and today I am joined by none other than Christie Woodson Harvey. Hello Christie, Hi Ron. I'm so glad to get to hear your voice and see your face for a little bit. I missed you already. I know we just saw each other the other day, but I do I miss you all the time. Well, one of the great pleasures of historical fiction is reading about little note or forgotten people who get a second chance at fame and recognition by the pin...

...of a talented storyteller. So today we are so thrilled to welcome joy callaway, someone who does just that and bringing these little known or forgotten people back to life. She is the author of the grand design. Hi, guys, I'm so excited to me here. We're so happy to have you. Totally totally congratulations on the book. Let me just tell people a little bit about you and we will dive right in. So Joy's love of storytelling is a direct result of her parents insistence that she read books or write stories instead of watching TV. MMM, I don't about that. But her interest in family history was fostered by her relatives habit of recounting tales of ancestors lives. Joy is a full time mom and writer. She formerly served as a marketing director for a wealth management company. She holds a BEA and journalism in public relations from Marshall University and an MMC and mass communication from the University of South Carolina. She resides in Charlotte, North Carolina, with her husband and her two children. So, once again, joy welcome to the podcast so much. It's so great to have you here. I know we've tried to we've been trying to talk to you for a little while. We finally got it all together. So I'm very stars in aligned. Yes, great, right. So the book Grand Design is is out on May seventeen and I think this will are a little bit after that. But congratulations on that book. But tell everybody a little bit about what the book is. So the book is very special to me because what a lot of people, I guess have would know if they follow me, is how much I love the state of West Virginia. It's something that it's as kind of my second home. My family's from there, my husband's from there and when you are familiar with West Virginia, one of the one of the kind of stars of West Virginia is the Green Briar and you know, growing up we were there all the time and when you're in the green brier you're surrounded by these remarkable colorful designs and those designs were created by a woman named Dorothy draper who was an iron heiress of the guilded age, who kind of went from, you know, society darling to CEO and made a really big shift. You know, back you know, nowadays there's all kinds of celebrities, you are also entrepreneurs, but back then, you know, you were if you were in society, it was completely unthinkable that you would become a businesswoman. And so I wanted to explore in this book what happened to kind of push her toward who she became, which was really the Martha Stewart of her time in the s. So the book takes place in Nineteen eight in nineteen forty six, both at the Green Briar, and in both time periods we followed Dorothy draper and the book is about the Green Brier and how a love she found there as a young woman sort of influence that shift from socialite to see you. I love this...

...book, as you know, and I remember having lunch with you or a few years ago and you were just absolutely let up about the idea of writing this book about Dorothy Draper, who, you know, is one of America's most notable interior designers. And you know, I was so excited too, because I'm a big fan of hers. Of also love design. So can you just take us back to like just the origins of this idea, like where? What was the spark and what was the moment that made you say, okay, I'm going to write this? Well, Christie, I feel like we're probably a lot alike in this. You know, everywhere we go we're looking for whether we were conscious of it or not, we're looking for ideas. You know, we're nerdy like that, which is so much fun, but for sure so are. Everything becomes a story, right, everything, everything has the potential to and you know, especially places we love. And so you know, as I mentioned basically partially growing up in West Virginia, we had cut gone to the Green Briar with my family since before I can remember, and actually generations back. I mean my family has been in the area for eight generations, and so they've gone to the Green Briar for I don't even know how many I mean probably that that many generations, because the green barrier has been around since the early eighteen hundreds, and so you know it's a really special place for us and on one of our many reunions there I was sitting in the main lobby and I was talking to my grandpa and I was talking about how I really wanted to write a book set at the Green Brier because it was such a special place for us and I always attended the history lectures whenever I was there. They have a staff historian. He just retired actually this year. He'd been there for forty five years and he's just this wealth of knowledge. And the hard part was for me, as I knew I under at a book set there, but the history is so deep and so vast there that and there are so many stories she could tell that I on that particular year, on that Reunion, I was trying to figure out in conversation with my GRANDPA, like you know, which story do I tell? And as I was sitting there amid all these beautiful designs, and that's the designs are part of the atmosphere at the green brier. You can't really separate the designs from the hotel. They just wouldn't be the same. And I was actually talking to my grandpa about that exact same thing. That just you know, the green like Dorothy draper and the green brier are basically just they've merged. Their legacies have merged. You can't separate them. You can't. You can't take you know, in a lot of ways the greenbrier by with Carlton Varney, you know, carrying on her designs and the Green brier continuing to have her designs displayed. They made her immortal. And in a lot of ways, to Dorothy draper, when she came to the Green Brier to revitalize it in the s after it had been an army hospital, she gave the green brier new life, she elevated it to the...

...to what it is today. And so you can't separate those two entities. And so I think when I figured that out and when that dawned on me sitting there with my Grandpa, he is a great guy to like talk talk things through with, it just became so clear that I needed to tell their story, the greenbrier and Dorothy draper's story, and in so many ways in this book the Greenbrier is a character. That was gonna say that exact thing. I was going to talk you in to. The green briars really character this fuck it really is. It's really cool to have that dynamic because even when you know we're when you play a history too, and I know Christie and I. I'm sure we have so many similarities as far as how we stay true to history or kind of our rules with that. But it made it tricky a little bit because I had to stay true to his some history with Dorothy, dorothy's life in some parts of the book and really stick to that and then stay true to the green briers history and other parts of the book. And it was an interesting and fun balancing actor try to find find the story and stay true to fact also while also playing having the ability to play at a little bit of fiction to so yeah, but just sitting there, I will always treasure that, that time with my GRANDPA. The cool thing is, you know, I read a lot about there's always a little hint of family history and all of my books. It just makes it a lot more real to me. My grandpa actually his dad was a ribbon mill manager and they he started out in Canapolis, North Carolina, and hopped around, you know, he get promoted and go to different mills and when my Grandpa was actually in college, he's the oldest of five kids, when he was in college at Duke His parents had actually moved to white sulfur springs, which is the town that the Greenbrierson and his dad was managing a ribbon mill there and so during the summers my grandpa would come home from Duke and and lived there. And one summer he came home and they asked him. They said, you know, this woman's redecorating the hotel. We need you to come in and help install a new fire alarm system in the hotel. And so he came in and she was decorating and he was installing the fire alarm system. And so it's such a cool what talking to him was so neat because he was able to remember those times and what it meant to the community to have her revitalize it, but also how he was a small part of, you know, helping it get back on it the hotel get back on its feet, and a lot of ways that is so cool. It is and it's like the personal touches really make a story, you know, it makes you care that much more about about the story and I hope it translates into that, you know, for readers. Yes, yes, so you talked a little bit about this, but what did what was your approach to the research of both the Green Briar and Dorothy story you know, I always try to try to stay as true as I hand to the real the real life narrative, because there's so many wise that are you know, that you find even when you do stick to real life. You know, you think about any type of historical account, generally speaking, you have a lot of facts, like, you know, she was born here and she got married at this on this date to this person and she did, you know,...

...she decorated this hotel and this hotel and this museum and this restaurant and you know, on and on. But what? Sometimes the story doesn't tell you as the why. So, you know, I think that with with anything, with the greenbriers history and with Dorothy's history I got, I always play with those, you know, because because sometimes we don't know, especially when I realized with with Dorothy, and what I think is pretty universal too, is we don't know a lot about you know, you have someone's birthday and you have kind of like who they end up marrying and then their children usually, but you don't necessarily know you know, who did the WHO did they date before or who were they connected to before, or how did they meet? You know, their how do they make their most formative friendships or and things like that, and so those are the things that I always play with in fiction because generally we don't know. So with Dorothy's life, there's some great biographies out there. Carlton Barney. Actually he's coming out with a new deluxe edition of her biography the same day as the grand design, which is so serendipitous and so cool. Yeah, and it is. So we are weird chatting and Mr Varney was like, you know, telling me that it was coming out the same day and I just thought that was the weirdest and also such the coolest. You know the thing. It could be a great book called Club Companion, I think, to this book, to my book. But he's also released several other design books about her and so they're said a lot of information about her life that he does a really great job explaining, kind of like who she came from and her family history. She was actually she was the the daughter of an iron air and in a in a wailing fortune. So her mother, the men turns, were where the way or whale awhaling family, and then her dad on the tougherment side. They were an iron family and they are both very old families of America, so around like mayflower era. They're also very proud of that history and they were of the of the group that, I guess, if you watched guilded age, would be kind of like the old money group, who did not like the flashiness, who had elaborate things, but they kept them that upsite. So even where Dorothy grew up was Tuxedo part New York, which, if any of you are familiar, it's basically like you took all those vansions on Foth Avenue and you put them in a little exclusive community that's tucked away and gated. And that's where she grew up. And you know, it was just this life that she grew up around, you know, astors and she grew up with Emily Post. Emily post was in that same community, and so she grew up in this very, you know, very high end, Princess of America type of lifestyle. And then, you know, you find out later on, okay, she's become the CEO of this company and that is against everything they they thought about. You know that they wanted for their...

...children because you know, if you worked back then and you are an heiress, that meant that your family was on the brink of ruin, because why else would you be doing it? Or you know, or or maybe your husband was on the brink of ruin and they just wanted you to very well and and have kids and if you'd kind of defied those societal norms, then something was must have been a miss right. But with her she just always had this she was very a very creative person, someone who just had such immense natural talent, and that just broke through really but, you know, you for me, with playing with her history, it was always about the why and kind of the what was the catalyst that drove her to do that, because it would have really put a spotlight on her in a way that you know, she really did in some ways she liked the Glitz, she liked being known and but at the same time that was not something that her family or her or society as a whole really wanted for someone in her of her social class during the time. So I just I played with why and in this in this book and kind of like in her formative years, what would have prompted her to make those choice, the choices she made later, to kind of, in a lot of ways, turn her back on how she was raised and then in the greenbriers history. You know the greenbrier. There's so many great records and I didn't I didn't have to play with the history too much actually on the greenbrier side because it started as the perfect setting for what I was trying to do with with her, with Dorothy's character. But the book is said actually in night to know it's it was called the centennial season at the Green Brier and it was neat because taft was actually coming through to campaign for president during that season and it had always been this kind of place where have things happened? You know, it was like this unofficial place where you could meet up with the senators and presidents and people got things done on the download. You know, there was a place that people wanted to be seen. And so nineteen o eight their celebrating the centennial, which is funny because he got for the historian. He'll say the actual the resort was actually established a while like. It would have been like maybe a hundred and and change years. It wasn't quite a centennial and nineteen o eight, but they were celebrating it because there was a tavern or something that had been built on the property in eighteen o eight and they just thought okay, like this sounds good, let's just do a centennial season in nineteen o eight. So they had a huge celebration, they had horse shows and you know, all these society everyone who is anyone in society was there, basically. And and then in the second half of the book, in Nineteen Forty six, she basically had the opposite at the green where you have this ravage showtel that was made into an army hospital during World War Two and all the finery is just ripped, ripped to shreds, you know, and she basically sad. Dorothy herself didn't love the idea of war and you know, she lived through two World Wars and a depression and a high profile divorce where her husband,...

...who was the polio doctor for Fbr, just left her on the brink of right before the stock market crash. So she's been through a lot. And so when she comes back to the Green Briar and the s she's met with a skeleton and kind of the hotel she once knew and this kind of faced anew with the the trauma that she's been through. So yeah, that was kind of fun, you know, with the history as far as Dorothy goes in the green brier. was kind of fun to just play and see how to like, how to give and take on sticking to historical fact and haw where I could play with fiction. We, you and I have we talked about this a little bit, but I think it might be interesting to tell other people, and I don't know how much you even want to say about this, but I just wrote about Cornelia Vanderbilt and there were some similarities between these two women in terms of how they both sort of left everything that they knew and turned their back a bit on this society that was supposed to be the end all, be all. And we also talked a little bit about writing about women who maybe weren't universally loved and who might have some things in their stories that we're going to be difficult for readers to digest and how, you know, you sort of straddle that line between we want to tell the real story, we want to tell the truth, but we also want to really examine, you know, why they did these things and sort of made them a little bit wor sympathetic than maybe they were portrayed in the press or whatever are. So I'm just fundering. You know, how you how did you straddle that line it? was that something that you struggled with or was that something that was just really easy and obvious right out at the game? I mean, I think, like you're exactly right. I think edith and Dorothy were like cut from the same cloth, you know so much. They had similar backgrounds. You know, I often wonder if they knew each other. They probably did, at least their their parents must have, you know, and it's you know, you think about net even nowadays, women feel compelled to prove themselves because the roles we play now are different than the roles we played fifty years ago, and so we feel compelled to that. We have to prove ourselves. And I think how much more difficult that would have been back, you know, in the s, the s and S, when when Dorothy was coming up, or in the gilded age when edith was doing what she was doing, and how much more you would have had to fight to prove yourself. And Dorothy, you know, she was very much unapologetically with her designs especially and with her company especially. If I say it's right, it's right. You know, this is what I say goes and I kind of you know, you look at that at first you think he well, that's Abrasive, or you know, that's that's not you're not giving. But you know what, this is her, this is her this is what she's worked so hard for, this is this is her company and it's something that she ultimately was her life's joy. You know, this is a...

...thing that she she felt very strongly about and I think that sometimes with with women like this, they just we have to think of them as as pioneers for people, for us now, and I look at her life and I think about how difficult it must have been for her, because she was criticized at every turn. You know, for the way, if you know, the way she wouldn't speak or you know, I found her divorce, you know, and Reno. They used to go to Reno and the S to get divorce. That was kind of like the society woman's the place where she went to get a divorce. And you know, there's pictures of Dorothy in the papers getting her divorced from her husband who left her, and you think about it and that, you know, he's not being raped over the coals for leaving his wife. And she really had nothing to do. I mean, you know marriages are tricky, but she didn't leave him, and yet she's the one in the papers being you know, her divorce is being splashed all over and his face is are to be seen as hers, and I think you have to have a thick skin to endure what she did and to to tryumph like she did and to build a legacy. That she did too. And you know, you look at her strategy and how she overcame, then really the color she us, Dorothy draper I was. You see her and designs and you immediately know that's that's who did it. It's unit's just completely unlike anything else. It is strike and joyful and I often think that her designs or a form of therapy for herself, because she really couldn't, you know, just like I associate with her so much, like doing research with her about her made me realize how much I think we have in common. You know, she endured a lot, like I mentioned, both world wars, divorce and the Great Depression, and she got from the point where she didn't want, she could not see it, so she actually had her assistant cut the newspapers out so all the bad news she would have persistent cut out and the good news she would read and some might say, well, you know, don't you need to be mindful of what's going on in the world? Don't you need to be mindful of all of it? And the truth is yes, just to a degree. But I think what she was doing was saying this is impacting me at a soul level like I need to I need to focus on the good and in focusing on the good then maybe I can bring some light to others. And so she really believed and the power of positive thought and especially after after her divorce, she really she's always she'd always liked color, but after her divorce it was almost like she went to see a psychiatrist and his philosophy was, you know, positive thinking is is how we overcome over how we overcome, you know, some of our traumas and things like that. Obviously there's a lot more to it, but she fully adopted that and and wanted to create spaces that were joyful and happy...

...and could create positive memories for people in the midst of personal hardship, so no matter what they were going through, it just gave them a moment of joy. That was kind of her goal. And so I think that even though like personally, you know, we see in the in you know, in history, that she was, she's, kind of a no nonsense person who kind of turned her back on society and what a different direction. And maybe because she had to stand for saying up for herself so much, maybe some would consider her abrasive or some might even say unlikable, but really, in truth, she had to be that way, and I think that's completely true with edith as well and what she went through. That's so interesting and I you know, and I did think of I did spend a lot of time thinking about something that you're really touching on, is that, you know, when we're going back and looking at primary sources and we're reading about these people, you have to consider who's writing about them, you know, and how, if they make these choices that are, you know, bolder or braver that women are not supposed to make, like, who's writing about them and how are they writing about them and why? And, you know, what does that have the potential to do to the fabric of this very buttoned up society that's been created? So, yeah, I I completely agree with you that she probably, you know, she probably was for trained in a way that maybe wasn't completely accurate and because she was doing something that was, you know, unusual for her time. That is so true. And I love the historical fiction books because they get to let the reader know the real person behind it and not just what what might have been said in the press or might not have been, especially if you think back, even back in mythological times, some of those characters were maligned because they were female, but now they get to have their their lives really told. So, in addition to Dorothy, the Green Briar is such a centerpiece of the book. What do you think is about it? The captures people's attention and imagination, you know, on the just like on the fly. I think anything of the Green Brier, anything of Glamor right people. People are attracted, whether they like it or not, be attracted to the glitter and they're attracted to that lifestyle that for so long has been a part of the Green Briar. You know, President's vacations there and you had, you know, in the S, like the grand opening party that when Dorothy redecorated the hotel. One of the cool things about Dorothy was she was actually one of the celebrities. She wasn't just the decorator, she was a celebrity and she's kind of the Martha Steward of her time. I mean she had a good housekeeping column and again she was an heiress, so that kind of played into the Glamor too. But you know, they had people like being crosby and the Kennedy's and the Duconductions of Windsor and they all vacations there and the greenbrier has forever been a place that just you walk in and it's enormous place. It's huge and it's...

...decorated in these like wild, vibrant decorations and it's unmistakable. It is completely unlike any other place that ever been to. And then you walk outside and the outside kind of matches the glory of the inside because it's gorgeous. It's in the mountains and there's just you just feel like you can finally, I just feel like you makes you smile. It you feel like you can finally take a breath. It's just the great it's a great place. I don't know how to explain it, but it's just there's an a lure and a draw to it for sure, and it keeps people coming back here after year after year, which is why it's such a storied place. There's a lot of stories to tell, but it's also just a place that's that's so important to so many people because of the memories made there. Wow, it's kind of place to you want to take a little time, travel backs and land right in the middle of one of those big parties and kind of see what it was really like. I know, you know, they used to have such great parties there. They had, you know, they us be walk went in and you always had dinner in the dining room there, the formal dining room, and then you went and danced in their cameo ball room that has this Hu mongus crystals chandelier that Dorothy designed and they had a big band back in the s and that's kind of what the weekend was about. People, you know, came and it was a very fancy, very glittery weekend, and I talked to the pill the history and I was like, Hey, can we somehow, can we get like a throwback weekend, like could you guys? Can you guys see one of those? And it would be a boot winding awesome. I know you always said they're always trying to balance, like, okay, this isn't just an ancient place, like this is also like new, so you have to balance like the new and the old. And I was like, I know, but just for the weekend, like don't have to be old, like we don't have to gather around the spring house and drink sulfur water, but we could, you know, have the fancy dances and the fancy dinners. That would be so much fun. But it is definitely like a throwback. I mean when you go in there, you feel like you've gone back in time, even though it's updated, even though it's new. It's not, but there's just something about it that like it just feels like all the best parts of this kind of like time gone by and it's a really special place where. Yeah, they have they have, you know, high tea still for everyone, for all the guests every you know, every day, and it's lovely and you know, we go in the winter a lot and you know it's called up there in the winter and people will say a little you know, what do you do? And I'm like there's so much to do there. You can just hang out at the hotel. There's just fun to do those restaurants and bowling alley and the swimming pool and the baby theater. I mean the list could go on, but it's such a fun place. Yeah, okay, so you might not have an answer for this and if you don't, it's totally fine because we have lots of questions for you. But I know that sometimes when we're doing research for these books, they're things that we come across that we're like, oh my gosh, that's so exciting, I love that so much, and we'll go down these, you know, rabbit holes and spend all this time researching something and then it doesn't make it into the book. Is there...

...anything that you know when you were working on this book, any research that you did didn't make it into the novel or anything that you wish you could have included but you didn't? Or did you use every no, I mean you know how it is with books like you just doing. It's a snapshot and it has to be, because otherwise people would get bored. I wouldn't because I would enjoy reading reading about the research, but that's ample. Okay, we get it. She did a lot of stuff, you know, but really, you know, there was a there are so many project she did that especially on door on the Dortheast side of things, she did this enormous project in Brazil and it was supposed to be kind of like her masterpiece, kind of like the greenbrier ended up being, and it was just bad timing. It was a huge new resort goes a gambling resort in Brazil and World War II, you know, the Brazilians of entering World War II and they outlaw gambling. And then that's it and she gets kind of halfway done with it and she doesn't get to open it and it's this really devastating thing for her and her career. And really enough, there are still pieces of her designs. That hotel ended up opening later and the designs that she did are still there, which is really it's a really neat thing. But there's so many things she did that are just that I would have loved to talk about and explore more. But then on the Greenbrier side, I mean there are so there's so much history. The you you the bunker, the congressional bunker that they found in the set these. Yeah, that was hidden basically, and you know, again like there were so many options of stories to write at the greenbrier. You know, there's there's stuff from, you know, the early eighteen hundreds on, and yes, I think it's so compelling. But the good thing is is that there are books about it and there are books that I can read for my own enjoyment and and hear that history and read about more about that history. And the same is true. That's why I actually, for the first time in the back of this book I give additional reading recommendations because Dr Bob Conti, who is the historian there, has written a really great comprehensive history of the Green Briar. And then Carlton Barney has written so many really great books about Dorothy as well. And another thing I guess I one of the things I was God I got to include, is so, you know Dorothy. She ended up passing away in the S and she kind of turned the she gave kind of painted the reins off to Carlton Barney, who has meant the helm of Dorothy draper and company now for years and years and he is he's actually been decorating the greenbrier longer than she has at this point, and so he is just, you know, there are it is dorothy draper in the greenbrier combined. But it also is Carlton. He has just magnificent and he is just amazing and has is really...

...just as as instrumental as both of them are, and so I wanted to figure out how to include him in the book because I just felt like he had to be there somehow, and so I'm really glad that I we have a there's he he maybe makes an appearance in the in the epilog so I was glad that he got to kind of just I got to add all of the main players. I guess that I felt like were imparative to the greenbriers history together in the book. So Great Yep, got them all together. So, other than learning about the greenbrier and getting to know Dorothy's story, what are the other things that you hope the readers will take away from the book? What are the themes and the feelings that you hope people take well, I am optimist, honestly, that's just it's just who I am. I don't like to write books that leave people feeling upset or sad. I always want people to come away feeling encouraged or feeling happy and I hope that people are inspired by Dorothy story and that they realize that. You know, she overcame a lot. You can overcome a lot. That any that to use your gifts. You know, even if it seems impossible, even if it seems difficult, even if you don't quite know how, you can use your gifts. Just keep digging in and keep and keep fostering those things. You have them for a reason. And also just that you know that color changes things and another seems so like silly to say, just so simple. I love true and being around you know, in the during the pandemica actually painted two of my rooms in my house dorothy colors, is what I would call it. So one is like a it's a tiffany blue, but she'd be really mad about me saying that because she said that tiffany stole that color from her. So dorothy blue, dorothy panted. The Room was is now Dorothy blue, and my dining room is like this very cheery yellow color. And it truly was like during the pandemic. It made me so happy. You know, she hated Beige and she called she called Beige gravy colors and she said, I don't want to I don't want to see anything when Mr Varney talks about this a lot, but she says she would go around and she would say, show me nothing that looks like Gravy, you know, and so she wouldn't want to see any gravy colors. And so I tried to during the pandemic. I was like, okay, you know what, I'm going to see how this color color thing affects by mood, and it really did like brightens you up to see like a happy, cheery site. So yeah, I have people are more encouraged to splash that color on the walls if they want the love that. I love that, well do I. We have had so much fun with you here today and we were so excited to get to talk with you and we cannot wait for everyone to read the Grand Hotel. Well, they're absolutely going to love it and I am...

...positive that not only is it going to inspire a lot more reading about darthy draper, but that they're going to be a lot of people visiting the Green Brier after they read this book, I hope. So totally agree and I also read somewhere that it's a perfect companion piece to the HBO show the Guilded Age. So put those two together. That is thank you all for joining the Writers Block podcast today. On behalf of Mary, K Patti, Christie and Kristen. Thank you so much for joining US each and every week and we'll see you again next Friday. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Charleston Coffee Roasters, for their generous support. Show our sponsors some love by following them on facebook and instagram and subscribing to their email newsletter. Remember to use the code coffee with friends for twenty percent off bagged coffees a Charleston coffee roasters. Thank you for tuning in to the friends and fiction writers block podcast. Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review on your favorite podcast platform. Tune in every Friday for another episode, and you can also join us every week on facebook for Youtube, where our live friends and fiction show airs at seven PM Eastern Standard Time. We are so glad you're here.

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