Friends & Fiction
Friends & Fiction

Episode · 3 months ago

WB-S2E34 Books You Should Know: Iona Iverson's Rules for Commuting

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

WRITERS' BLOCK Ron Block and Mary Kay Andrews host author Clare Pooley, author of Iona Iverson's Rules for Commuting in our ongoing series, Books You Should Know!

I had to work out who got on where, so which combinations of characters could see each other at which points, and I knew I knew how much time the train took to go from one station to the next. So I had to work out how much action could realistically take place in each scenario, because they only had like three stops to travel and what could happen in three stops. And I sort of find that if you create these boundaries for yourself, it forces you to be really creative within the boundaries, if you like. So that, for me, was a fascinating part of writing this story. Is is having having those boundaries that I had to stick to. Welcome to the friends and fiction writer's black podcast for New York Times bestselling authors, one rock star Librarian and endless stories. Join Mary Kay, Andrews Kristin Harmel, Christy Woodson Harvey and Patty Callahan Henry, along with Ron Block as novelists. We are four longtime friends with seventy books between us, and I am Ron Block. Please join us for fascinating author interviews and insider talk about publishing and writing. If you love books and are curious about the writing world, you are in the right place. Welcome to the friends and fiction writer's block podcast. Today we present another in our series of books. You should know our guest. Today's Claire Pooley, author of the crowd pleasing Iona Iverson's rules for commuting, which New York Times bestselling author Tara Conklin says is heartwarming, funny, a delicious dive into the profound and ridiculous modern world in which we live. Claire Pooley reminds us why we need each other. I am Ron Block and I'm Mary Kay Andrews. Claire Pool. We grow awated from Cambridge University and then spent twenty years in the heavy world of advertising before becoming a full time writer. Her debut novel, the Authenticity Project, was a New York Times bestseller and has been translated into twenty nine languages. Iana Iverson's rules for commuting is her second novel. Claire Lives in Fulham, London, with her husband, three children and two border terriers. Welcome Claire. Thank you, it's great to be here. I'd love it. Claire. You Know How much I love the book. Can you tell our listeners what the book is about and then kind of what the book is really about? What's at the heart of the book? Oh well, the book is is about a group of people who share nothing in common apart from their daily commute. So they all take the same train to work in the morning and and again at the end of the day. Um, and the train line goes from Hampton court station to Waterloo in London and these people see each other day and day out and they sort of recognize each other and they give each other nicknames and...

...they make keenous assumptions about each other, most of which turn out to be totally incorrect. But what they never do is speak, because that's the first rule of commuting in London certainty, is that you never ever talk to your fellow commuters. You don't even make eye contact because that would be kind of weird. So they never speak until this one morning and the very first chapter of the book, where one of the commuters inhales accidentally inhales a grape and chokes and nearly dies and one of his fellow commuters gives him the Heimlich maneuver and saves his life. And this one action gets the rest of them talking and then the story really follows on from there. What happens when this group of people start getting to know each other. So that's what it's about. What it's really about, to answer your part B is it's really about the magic that happens when you start to engage with strange us, which is something we rarely do in real life, particularly when you start to engage with strangers who are nothing like you in terms of age, background, raised, sexuality, whatever. And and it's also about the things that people hide. You know, the fact that what we think we know about people is very often completely wrong. You know, everybody is hiding something, everybody is struggling with something, and that is certainly true of my main five characters. They all have something they're hiding. Yes, Oh my God, that's perfectly said, perfectly said. Why set it on a train? Oh, you know what, I was writing this during the pandemic and, you know, we were all stuck in our separate little boxes and I really you know, I obviously Miss Friends and family, but as well as that, I really Miss Strangers. I really miss being surrounded by lots of people I didn't know and and I thought back to my days of commuting into the center of London and out again, you know, every day, and how you know. At the time I thought, you know, this is uncomfortable, it takes a load of time, it's Smelly, it's noisy, it's it's no fun. And I look back at it with a real sense of lost algia and I remembered how I used to see the same people over and over again and I gave them nicknames and I imagine little stories about them and what they did when they weren't on my train. But I never spoke to them and I started thinking, you know, what would happen if I had done and that's really why I wanted to write that this book. I wanted to place myself back in that pre pandemic world where we could, you know, happily crowd into tiny spaces with lots of people breathing on us and not panic. CLARIA, I have to confess to you that I didn't know about I honor until I was...

...in New York in the fall. No, I was in New York or in June, and I had dinner with my agent, whose name is Stuart Kaschowski, and he happens to be married to your American editor, Pam Dormant, and Pam brought me a copy of Iona and she said Stu says I'm not allowed to do this, but she handed me the book and she said You're gonna love it, and I did. I really, really really did. Um. Well, she has she has um flawless taste. So when Pam Dormant tells you to read something, you read it. But now, when I googled you, as one does, I found references to Claire Pooley, creator of a blog called mummy, was a secret drinker. And then I fell down the rabbit hole and I got distracted while reading your disarmingly honest and funny blog about your decision to quit drinking and then along the way you wrote a non fiction book. Are The sobriety project? Now, this is a very long way of asking. I'm just wondering if you if there's any connection between your news found sobriety and does the decision to tackle fiction for us the authenticity project, and now I own it. Yes, I mean really one thing led to another in that Um. You know, when I quit drinking seven years ago, my you know, my life by that stage was a complete mess and actually, from the outside, if you looked at my social media, my facebook or my instagram, it all looked really perfect. But the truth was very different, because I have this terrible alcohol addiction which nobody, not even my closest friends and family, really knew the truth about, and I was too ashamed of the mess I got myself into to talk to anybody in real life, to talk to my my my husband or my gp or, sorry, my doctor, or let alone alcoholics. Anonymous. I started writing the blog really as a means of therapy and I poured my heart out into this this blog. Every day I talked about, you know, how what I was going through, how I was feeling, how I got to this place, the things I've learned about alcohol addiction and so on. And then the blog went viral, amazingly, because I didn't promote it at all. I was far too ashamed to do that. I was writing under a pseudonym. The blog went viral and then became a book called the sober diaries. And by this stage writing was my new addiction and I wanted to carry on writing, but I didn't want to carry on writing about my own life because my kids, by this stage, were teenagers and you know, I've I felt it wasn't really fair on them and I've sort of been there done that. So I decided to try writing fiction, but actually my novels are very much influenced by what I've been through. So the authenticity project...

...was was really based on the fact that the that nobody really tells the truth about their lives. And you know, I certainly didn't. You Know I. I. My life was very different in reality from what it looked like, and me telling the truth about my life and this blog completely transformed everything, including the lives of everybody that read it, and that was the inspiration for the authenticity project. And indeed one of the characters in the authenticity projects suffers with alcohol addiction and drug addictions. So so it's it's still very close to home and I owner also in many ways as inspired by my own life. So I'm writing fiction now, but still very much based in the real in the real world and my real experience. Was it a huge leap for you to come out as a novelist, I mean, or had since you've already published non fiction project, did that make it easier to say, look, I wrote another I mean, I think the hardest bit was coming out from behind my pseudonym initially. You know, when the sober dose was first published. It was just just, you know, for the three nights before that book came out I had this recurring nightmare that I was walking down the street completely naked and everybody around me was fully closed and and that's what it felt like. It felt really exposing. It felt like I was taking all my clothes off in public. Writing Fiction isn't as scary as that in a way, because you're hiding behind your own characters. So it allows you to explore the things that really matter to you, the things that you know make you happy, the things that make you angry, the things you're frustrated by, but you can do it through the eyes of somebody else and that makes it much less exposing in many ways. So so I think that was easier for me than the nonfiction and that's incredible and thank you for sharing your story. And that's not always the easiest thing to do, but we sure appreciate it. Back to I own a little bit, though. Each of the characters in the book bigger on a personal journey of their own, but they also go forward in a collective one, really under the influence of IANNA. Can you talk about creating the characters, where they came from? And how you develop their journeys. Oh, I mean, that's the first. The character I came to first was really I owner herself, and she was very much inspired by the woman I guess I wanted to be Um in that there's there's a poem called when I grow old, I will, I shall wear purple. I think it's by Jenny Jones and and I remember when I was in my twenties and I thought that fifty seven was an incredibly old age. Now, of course I think fifty seven is really young, but then I thought it was terribly old and I remember thinking, you know, reading that poem and thinking that's sort of woman I want to be when I'm I'm that...

...sort of age. You know, I want to be eccentric and I don't want to care what other people think about me and I want to be the sort of person that everybody pays attention to. And and that's, I guess, where Iona came from, because she really is a larger than life character and she doesn't realize that everybody notices her. She thinks she's invisible, but she really isn't. And and the other characters sort of followed on from there. You know, I I sort of started thinking, well, what sort of people would you meet on a train day and day out? And gradually these characters started coming to life in my head. And, uh, you know, I always start from I always start by asking the question what do these people find difficult? What are they struggling with, because I think that's much, much more interesting than starting from what are these people good at? What are their strengths? You know, strengths aren't interesting. Weaknesses are far more interesting than strengths. So with each of them I started with what's what's? What's this person weakness? What? What do they most want to change about their lives, and I took it from there. I'm just struck by the fact that both your novels seems to have seemed to have themes of the ways in which communities can come together in unusual ways to help and heal. In the authenticity project, the protagonist, Julian, is deeply lonely, so he decides to reveal his truths in a notebook which he leaves in a cafe. The cafe owner finds it and decides to try to figure out who, who, the notebook belongs to. Right, yes, that's right, absolutely. I'm just finding out about that. So now I have to go back and catch up. And then Iona, formerly the it girl of London society. Now she thinks of herself as the past it girl, as you said, at age seven. She's cookie kind of and prickly, but despite outward appearances she's hiding her own secrets and she seems to be hanging on by a really swim thread. So talk, talk, if you work a little bit about community and why we need them, and I guess maybe during Covid we figured out, wow, we really need our communities. Yeah, I mean it struck me that we live in an era where we're more connected than ever to people via the Internet, via social media and so on. You know, we have thousands and thousands of connections and yet, you know, more and more of us a lonely. If you look at the statistics, particularly in big cities, you know even amongst young people, even amongst people in their twenties, you know there are huge numbers of people who say that they are incredibly lonely, that they only have a handful of close friends, and I think we're all craving real life connections and you know, you look back to the sort of lives that our parents and our grandparents lead, where, you know, everybody lived in in communities that helped each other out. Yeah,...

...you know, if somebody was in trouble, if somebody needed needed needed money or a lift or or or help with with nursing care, whatever, you know, the community would rally around them. And these days, you know, particularly in our big cities, certainly in some where like London, you know, often you don't even know the names of your neighbors. So I think with both of my novels I really wanted to explore the power of community and and what, you know, what we can gain from engaging with the sort of people that we wouldn't normally engage with. So, you know, and again, I sort of feel like we all increasingly live in these echo chambers where we surround ourselves by people who are very like us and they have the same opinions as us and they have the same lifestyle as us, and I don't think that's necessarily very healthy. I think it's much. We have so much to learn from people who are not like us at all. Agreed. Well, that's so true, so true. Um, I want to let's kind of throw this in here, but without giving any spoilers, can we chat about the ending of this book? It's so perfect in my mind. was that always the ending that you had in mind? Um, vaguely, I mean it's it's funny that they say that there are two types of writer. Don't know, there are plotters and pants as. Have you heard that expression? You know, pants is meaning, you know, you fly by the seat of your pants. Um, and I'm sort of I'm in a way, I'm in between. You know, when I when I start a novel, I tend to know the beginning and the end and sort of certain points along the way, but I leave I leave the rest of it sort of to evolve by itself, because I sort of feel that's where the magic happens, you know, and they when those when occasionally you get those amazing moments where your characters just start doing their own thing and they surprise you and they start walking off the page and going on their own journeys, is and that's really magical and I think that's where, you know, the really exciting stuff happens. So, yeah, I knew roughly what I wanted the end to be, but a lot of what happened along the way and how we got there, you know, just evolved by itself. So yeah, I think that's that's for me, is the real fun. I would hate to have everything pinned down to too much. At the beginning I was thinking about how timely the young girl, that character, what's her name again, Martha, Martha Martha's been the victim of revenge porn of course she's young and she goes to a posh school and now she's an outcast. I thought that was just so timely and so prescient. Now, did your teenagers inspire any of that? I don't mean you're teaching teenagers did revenge porn but well, you know, I think I mentioned that I use writing stillers as therapy...

...and I use it as a way of exploring, you know, things that bother me and things I'm scared about and things, you know, that I want to make sense of and and with. I have three teenagers and technology and the way they use technology terrifies me. And it's not this is not something, thank goodness, that so far has happened to any of them, but it's certainly something that I worry about and I know teenagers who have had real problems with with images being shared and that sort of thing. And Paul Martha, you know, she is desperate to fit in. She's fifteen. She's desperate to fit in and she likes this boy at school and she describes herself as she thinks she's the only virgin in her school apart from this guy who is a sort of computer geek and they're both sort of slight, slightly on the edge of everything Um. And he tells he asked her to send send him a nude pick and he says that that's what you do if you like a boy and that's what everybody else does, and she believes it and sends it to him and he doesn't mean, he didn't do anything, doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. He just is so excited by actually having received this pick that he sends it to his best friend and his best friend uploads it to the the the year group group chat, and you can see how easy it is for that sort of thing to happen. He quite quickly realizes he's done something wrong takes it down, but by then it's everywhere and poor old Martha is being talked about by everybody and is being bullied and is more of an outcast than ever Um and you know that that sort of scenario is just so prevalent these days. However much you tell teenagers to be careful with, you know, with their their their social media, and not to post anything that they wouldn't want their mother or their grandmother to see, etcetera, etcetera, these things still happened. So, yeah, that's inspired by my fears, I guess. I think we do write our fears into our novels. I didn't realize how a Fred I was a fire until I'd had three fires and three consecutive novels. You haven't had a fire in real life, though, being burned. Let's talk about something more pleasant, and that's that little French bulldog Lulu. She is Iona's total and her total devotion to Lulu. Now you're a dog. You have two dogs, so I'm assuming you're a dog person too. Oh, yes, I am. Yes, I think every novel has to have a dog. I sort of agree. We have three English setters at our house. Oh wonderful. Tell me how you came to side that Lulu was a French bulldog, or did you just always know Iona had a French bulldog? Well, you know I mean, I'm sure you do this too, you know, you start building a character in your head and, Um, and I so thought, you know, she's...

...she's a sort of woman who has she has to have a dog, she has she doesn't have any kids, Um, you know, and and but I felt that that she would be a dog lover. She was just that sort of person. And then you just, you know, you scroll through in your head the sort of dog that would fit with this sort of character. And you know, it was and I tried all thoughts and I just and they just didn't seem right, until I landed on the French bulldog and you know, that was that was it. That was the magical pairing. And it's a bit like, you know, I remember trying to work out who her partner would be, and I went through all sorts of images of various men in my head, thinking, would it be this sort of guy or would it be that sort of guy? I don't know, it's not a guy at all. And that's how she became a lesbian. It was just it just didn't fit with her to be with a guy just sort of, you know, in the same way it wouldn't fit with her to have a golden retriever. Um, so so. Yeah, you you sort of pieced together these details as as the characters come together, I find and then and then, you know, each of those details gives them more depth. Well, plus, you can. You can easily carry a French bulldog on a train. Maybe not so easily. Yeah, I love Lulu and Lulu is just so, her own little seat and everything. So one of the major themes, also in the book, as I read it, was second chances. Everybody seemed to have gotten a second chance, and you've shared some of your own stories, which makes me now understand better why that was a theme in the book. Can you talk about that just a little bit more and then you can tie that into actually writing your second novel. Yeah, I mean I like I intrigued by second chances and by the idea of a sort of a magnificent second act, if you like. And I guess I guess this comes from when I was working in advertising. I was thirty, I was the youngest woman on the board and I felt like the world was my oyster and and I had, you know, years left in the industry and I got to forty and suddenly I looked around and I was one of the only women left in the agency and I thought in aware of all the women gone. And by this stage people were starting to treat me like I was a bit of a dinosaur. And yet, you know, I felt that I had years of accumulated wisdom and I was far better at my job than I'd ever been before. And it makes me very angry the way that when men get old and gray, they seemed to gain get Gravitas, whereas women tend to become invisible and as seen as being irrelevant. And I'm fascinated by women who turned that into a magnificent second act and decided to have a whole new second career that is often way more interesting and successful than their first...

...one. And that's really what I wanted for Iona in this book is a magnificent Second Act. And for me, my writing career is my magnificent second act and I'm enjoying it hugely and far more than I ever did did my first career. So so, yes, I think second chances and and second acts are wonderful thing in life. You are you know, Iona is such a character that at first I don't know, I don't know if I can relate to her, but then she becomes this modern anti mame for the commuting crowd. She sparkles and she's such a refreshing character. Obviously you're not a fifty seven year old lesbian with Um, a French bulldog that you carry on the train every day to work and sort of a complicated back well maybe. Well, I know you have a complicated backstory because you've told us that that great block. But was there somebody that you looked at, maybe, I don't know, an actress or a public figure that you thought that's what Iona walks or sounds like. Oh, you know, I'm not sure they're. They're really is, because she's she's I don't think I've ever met anyone quite like I owna. I think that's what I love about her, is that she is so unusual. She's she's a sort of she's an amalgamation of a number of different influences. I think, and you know I think, possibly the closest character I've I've come to to ionna is. I don't know how popular absolutely fabulous was in in the in the United States, but if you remember Joanna Lumley and in absolutely fabulous Um so, who played Pepsi Um, you know in a way, in a way she's a bit like Patsy in my head. That's uh, that's that's sort of how I visualized her sometimes, with that sort of mad beehive. Let's talk about that handbag, the magic handbag. One of the characters in the book secretly names I own a the magic handbag lady, because she's just always pulling astonishing items out of that bag. Now tell us about that. And and do you have a magic handbag? And No, you know, I don't. I'm not organized enough to have a magic handbag, but I know women who do you know? And there's sort of sort of people who you know, if your kid falls over and scrapes their knee, they have antiseptic and and they have a plaster or band aid and you know they have a suite to make them feel better and they have everything that you could possibly need. Um, and I was I was never as organized as that, but but I'm I'm always fascinated by people's handbags because I think you can tell so much about somebody by what they keeping their handbag. And there's a photographer actually who takes great pictures. He gets people to just empty their handbags and he arranges the contents and handbags and...

...takes a picture of them and he has he turned it into a whole show and it's fascinating because you look at all these objects and you think, well, what does you know? What does that say about the owner of this bag? And you know, I had such fun with I owner thinking about what she might keep in in her handbag. Because so she always has. She in the morning she has a flask of tea and she has a China Cup and a saucer because she doesn't like to drink out of anything other than proper China. And in the evening she has a gin and tonic and and a little bag of lemon slices. But yeah, she has she has things for every eventuality hidden in there. I did a social media post earlier in the week. I was cleaning my closet and then I had to clean out my handbags and I dumped them all on my bed and I said I posted on social media. This is what I found, and it's the most unusual thing I found was a hack star blade. What was that doing in there? Well, my husband was in the middle of a home improvement project and he gave me the blade and said, go to Home Depot and I need a blade just like this. I had I don't know, seven or eight sharpies and a couple of campaign buttons and I asked people, you know, what's the most unusual thing in your person? I was astounded by how many people responded to that. Yeah, I think the the other thing I had fun playing with was how everybody had different nicknames for our owners. So, so Martha called her the Magic Handbad Lady, but another character caused her mad dog woman and somebody or crazy dog lady. And you know, they all all the rainbow lady because of the ways that she wears really bright colors. They all have something different that they've picked up about her, Um and, and I think that's that's a real fascinating thing about life is how, you know, we can all see the same person very differently. Um. You know, even though even though they're there, you know they are the same person, we all have completely different views of them. That's true. I Love I love the names that everybody gave each other in the book. Um so another standout for me. Of course, you've already talked about the human connection factor that you were thinking about when you were putting them on a train and a little bit about writing during the pandemic. But can you flush that out a little bit more of what writing the book was like for you and did it change how you looked at the world, other than the human connection? Yeah, I mean it was. I loved. I loved at the discipline of having to stick to the train line because actually, right in the front of the book there's a little map of the train line which shows which stations each of the characters lives lives at, and that I kept with me at all times because I had to work out who got on where, so which combinations of characters could see each other at which points, and I knew...

I knew how much time the train took to go from one station to the next. So I had to work out how much action could realistically take place in each scenario, because they only had like three stops to travel and what could happen in three stops. And I sort of find that if you create these boundaries for yourself, it forces you to be really creative within the boundaries, if you like. So that, for me, was a fascinating part of writing this story, is is having having those boundaries that I had to stick to. And Yeah, and and then, and then I just loved the idea of working out not only how you know, their physical journeys, but their emotional journeys. So each of them, I wanted to make sure, went on an emotional journey also and ended up in a very different place at the end from from the place where they started. So yeah, it was great fun. It was great fun writing it. That brings me to the question that just came into my mind. Are you familiar with that train line? Is that the one you used to commute on? Yeah, I mean I didn't commute on it, but I took that train to school when I was when I was a teenager. So I lived in Hampton Court, where where where I only lives, and I went to school in Wimbledon, which is on that line. So so yeah, I know that line well and and you know, it was it was funny because I based the book on the train as I remembered it. But I couldn't go on the train because we were in the pandemic and it was sort of nobody was going on trains. And so as soon as things got better, I thought I've got to take the train and I was really nervous about it because I thought, well, what if it's not like I've written it? So I I go to Waterloo station and I get on the train and I look around. I think there are no tables, and in my story there's always a table. They always sit at a table, but at some point they've taken the table is out of the train. So I thought, well, either I have to change everything or I just have to, you know, to cover it somehow in the acknowledgements, and so in the author's note I I apologize to anyone who takes the train now about the fact that I added tables that that don't no longer exist. But that is a wonderful thing about fiction. You can make improvements to real life and in this case I put the trade their tables back. Now your book has been rightfully compared to Ted Lasso here in the states anyway. Why do you think both of those storylines resonate with readers and viewers? Oh, you know what, I love Ted Lasso. So so I take that as such a compliment Um and you know, I think. I think we've all lived through such a tough time. You know, we've both politically and you know the pandemic and you know, now we have...

...the war in Ukraine over here and it's been a really tough few years for everybody around the world and I think we're all we're all looking for things that just make us a bit happier. And you know, I certainly I couldn't write stories, I couldn't write a psychological thriller because I wouldn't want all that stuff going on in my head and I have to live with my characters for, you know, for months, a year, two years. And you know, I want to live with I want to live with happy stories in my head. I want to sort of you know, I want people to finish the book and feel better about the world and feel better about themselves, and I think that's that's sort of what we all need and that's what Ted Lasso does for all of us too. I think is is you know, it makes us laugh, it makes us it makes us sort of see that kindness and community are a really great things. Absolutely right. Both both are exactly as you describe their great Um. A lot of people have noticed that there have been two different covers, one in in England and one in the states, and different titles. Can Did you have any influence over those choices. You know what, I didn't realize until I started writing that the two areas that an author really has very little influence on other title and the cover of their books. Um and I think that the reason for that is because, as an author, you are so close to the story that you can't see the wood for the trees often and the publisher's job is to take your story and to position it to the public and they know how to do that a lot better, you know, usually, than the author does. So I absolutely trust my publishers to to, you know, to suggest the the best sort of best cover and and to to guide me on as far as titles go. Um and, in this case, my UK publisher and my us publisher just had different opinions about what would appeal in their markets. And it's funny. The UK and the US is so similar in many ways, but in some ways we're so different also, and you know, it's it's funny how different covers can be in those two markets. That and a minor totally different, and the titles really very different too. So yeah, I find it fascinating. Well, they work all right. Now everybody, I think, including myself and I'm sure we're on. We want to know what's next. What, what are you working on now? It seems to me that this is this has all the ingredients for a great movie streamer whatever. So can you tell us anything about that? Oh well, Um, I have sold the TV and film rights to the authenticity project, so I'm waiting...

...to see what happens with that. I haven't yet sold the film rights to Iona Rivason. So so sort of watch this space as far as that one goes. You know, I would love both to to to be either TV or movies. I mean that that would be a real dream. So so, yes, I hope that will that will happen one day. But in the meantime I'm sort of starting, starting to write the third novel. So, Um, yeah, which is a similar you know, it's it's a similar feel good story with multiple characters, but a very different, different concept and different characters in this instance. Well, I know I speak for myself and everybody who loved this book and author. We can't wait. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And I think that the TV rights for IANNA are to go to Joanna Lumley. It's a perfect her name into it. Oh, I'd love that. How can we ever thank you for joining us. This has been such a terrific conversation and if there's anyone out there who hasn't had the opportunity to read Iana Iverson's rules for commuting, they certainly will now. Can you tell everyone where they can learn more about you and your work online? Sure, I have a website, which is www dot claire Pouli dot com, and actually spell my name without an I and it's C L A R E P W O l e y Um, and I'm on Instagram at Claire Underscore Pouli and on twitter at C Pooley writer. Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for being with us today. Oh It's been a pleasure. I've really enjoyed chatting to you. Thank you so much, and thank you to our listeners. Claire's book is truly a book you should know and if you'd like to help out indie bookstores and save a little cash, visit the friends and fiction bookshop dot org page and get your own copy. Has always on behalf of the Fab Four. We appreciate you tuning in. Please be sure to share the podcast with a friend. M thank you for tuning in to the friends and fiction writer's block podcast. Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review on your favorite podcast platform. Tune in every Friday for another episode, and you can also join us every week on facebook or youtube. Where are live? Friends and fiction show airs at seven PM Eastern Standard Time. We're so glad you're here.

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